• Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

unmerged(11496)

Defender/Avenger
Oct 31, 2002
973
0
Visit site
Jinnai said:
That will likely be fixed shortly. Johan is usually fast about those type of corrections.

It's fixed and the patched-patch is already up :cool:
 

WiSK

Major
3 Badges
Apr 30, 2002
602
0
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • 500k Club
Twoflower said:
Seriously, there of course have to be considerations about loading time, even a perfect map would not be worth an unplayably slow game.
Those extra provinces should not noticeably impact game speed from the map itself. Indirectly though, more provinces might lead to more nations and more events and so on.
 

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
Mad King James said:
Most of what I want to do doesn't even involve new provinces. Mostly I want to redraw the old ones..
Well most of the areas i'd like to see added with provinces could definatly use this increase as it would mean less need to worry about using up ids, ie same idea as with the tag issue.
 

unmerged(17856)

General
Jun 26, 2003
2.473
0
Visit site
So an increase in province IDs...? As long as NA gets rid of some of that PTI, and the east coast is given a few new provinces I'll be happy :)

And I'm glad someone's interested in redrawing old ones.

Last request would be to stick a new provicne in between Artois and Brabant. I'm so damn tired of fighting over Artois. Actually we could shrink Calais, then actually make a real Artois province, and then make a Hainault province :) So 1 more, for Hainault, shrink Calais, and shift Artois (and prolly shrink too). :D
 
Feb 12, 2004
4.656
0
It's perhaps be wise to first agree to a rough division of the new ids between the continents/area, keeping a reserve, and determining how many ids may be got from merging some sea-zones & rivers.

Only then actual redrawing of the maps should be debated among seperate threads.

It's be cool to to have a definition of what a province depicts.
 

unmerged(17856)

General
Jun 26, 2003
2.473
0
Visit site
true true. It'd be ideal to make a custom map for AGCEEP, but that really depends on some dedicated AGCEEPers. In the meantime, my bet is that the fight will likely be settled with the input of many many more than simple and humble AGCEEPers (aka the whole EU2 forum...).
 

Garbon

Sultan d'Afrique
71 Badges
Feb 1, 2002
9.748
180
www.crystalempiregames.com
  • Imperator: Rome
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Deus Vult
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
ribbon22 said:
true true. It'd be ideal to make a custom map for AGCEEP, but that really depends on some dedicated AGCEEPers. In the meantime, my bet is that the fight will likely be settled with the input of many many more than simple and humble AGCEEPers (aka the whole EU2 forum...).

I'm seriously doubting that though...given that the AGCEEP with an enhanced focus on ROTW regions doesn't exactly mesh with the thoughts of the vanilla MP community, and the wants of individuals for various historical provinces that do little to enhance gameplay, I find it hard to believe that there will ultimately be *one* new map.
 

unmerged(31425)

Married Man
Jul 2, 2004
2.826
0
Garbon said:
I'm seriously doubting that though...given that the AGCEEP with an enhanced focus on ROTW regions doesn't exactly mesh with the thoughts of the vanilla MP community, and the wants of individuals for various historical provinces that do little to enhance gameplay, I find it hard to believe that there will ultimately be *one* new map.
I'm suspecting this as well.

BTW what does ROTW mean?

Does any of the AGCEEP crew really want 50 or more new mainland european provinces? I don't. It seems to me that the people who want lots of new european provinces are MP palyers. I'm curious how the AGCEEP community feels about which provinces ought and ought not to be added to the mods. I'm also debating whether or not to throw in with the AGCEEP on this or whether it's really just more worth my while to make my own map. I for one don't really want to go through the effort of trying to convince alot of people about the importance of such and such a new province if it's just less hassle to do this on my own.

However if we really do have very similar views perhaps it would be better to pool our knowledge on the matter together.

Can someone give me a rough estimate of just what the work on map adding is going to be like? I got a programmer friend who loves nothing better than helping me figure this kind of stuff out but I'd like to know roughly how much effort I'd be asking them for.
 

Twoflower

Vile treacherous Judas
82 Badges
Nov 7, 2001
3.913
2.244
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
idontlikeforms said:
Does any of the AGCEEP crew really want 50 or more new mainland european provinces?
Not 50 perhaps, but quite a few should definitely be added in Europe. We badly need provinces like Slesvik, Trier, Hainault and Slavonia, to name some.
 

unmerged(31425)

Married Man
Jul 2, 2004
2.826
0
Twoflower said:
Not 50 perhaps, but quite a few should definitely be added in Europe. We badly need provinces like Slesvik, Trier, Hainault and Slavonia, to name some.
Well I personally am in favor of adding european provinces that fix valid gameplay problems. What I don't want is to add them just because historically there were really 2 "provinces" in one EU2 province and wouldn't it be nice if my favorite country could have all of it's historic provinces be represented individually.

For example with Portugal, I can understand the desire for 5 mainalnd provinces to balance MP games but a SP game with 2 more mainland provinces adds nothing desireable to the game. In fact it will hurt a Portuguese AI by slowing his tech and making losing wars between 2 AIs last even longer. Consequently I don't really think for an SP game it's worthwhile to split those 3 Portuguese mainland provinces up further. Would we then split up all kinds of other european provinces too for no gameplay reason just because it's historically neater?

Although some may not know the history of the ROTW as well as some of us and can't think of just what is so desperately needed outside of europe, I can, and don't doubt that filling up that 400 and maybe some more extras from removing or combining current provinces that are uneeded, will actually happen pretty quickly. Also I'm inclined to believe that having a much fuller map with less PTI and alot more happening outside of europe actually makes for much better replay value than just a vaster europe.

Where do all you AGCEEP regulars who will most likely contribute to an "AGCEEP map," assuming one is made, stand on this issue?
 

WiSK

Major
3 Badges
Apr 30, 2002
602
0
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • 500k Club
idontlikeforms said:
Can someone give me a rough estimate of just what the work on map adding is going to be like? I got a programmer friend who loves nothing better than helping me figure this kind of stuff out but I'd like to know roughly how much effort I'd be asking them for.
You won't need to know about programming to make a new map. You need Photoshop skills and an understanding of the various layers that go into the EU2 map.

idontlikeforms said:
Where do all you AGCEEP regulars who will most likely contribute to an "AGCEEP map," assuming one is made, stand on this issue?
There will always be discussions about historical aspects versus gameplay, and SP versus MP. You can expect a whole spectrum of opinion as usual :)

For it to work out smoothly IMHO, we've got to have one person with an objective viewpoint (and some patience) redoing the map one piece at a time. Each change should be discussed in the regional thread and map changes submitted along with the corresponding adjustments to the db and event files. Overall control of how many provinces each area gets can be discussed in this thread.
 

unmerged(31425)

Married Man
Jul 2, 2004
2.826
0
WiSK said:
You won't need to know about programming to make a new map. You need Photoshop skills and an understanding of the various layers that go into the EU2 map.
I figured this but he still likes this kind of stuff and likes figuring it out. My point being that even though I am relatively ignorant on this matter at present it won't be too difficult for me to change that. Does making a new map take a ridiculous amount of time or is it fairly simple? Just want to know for a rough estimate time consumptionwise.
WiSK said:
There will always be discussions about historical aspects versus gameplay, and SP versus MP. You can expect a whole spectrum of opinion as usual :)

For it to work out smoothly IMHO, we've got to have one person with an objective viewpoint (and some patience) redoing the map one piece at a time. Each change should be discussed in the regional thread and map changes submitted along with the corresponding adjustments to the db and event files. Overall control of how many provinces each area gets can be discussed in this thread.
All of this may very well be true but my point is if most the AGCEEPers, particularly the HC members are thinking more or less along the lines that I am already AND it will be extremeley time consuming for me to make a new map myself, it may actually be worth my while to cooperate as best I can and except the fact that a few provinces I want may be rejected. However if this is not the case then I could just start thinking of how to go about making a map myself. Do my enquiries make sense now?
 

James Fox

First Lieutenant
43 Badges
Aug 18, 2002
242
15
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Well, I'm not an AGCEEP regular...

But, quite some time ago, I did participate in an AGC:Africa thread, and in my opinion, two things quickly rose to prominence (at least in my imagination) as the major problems. First, there was the lack of tags (now fixed). Second, there was the problem that the map was all topsy turvy. Names were nowhere near where they should have been, the provinces didn't correspond at all to political boundaries (Dahomey is a prime example), and finally, important states such as Bornu were located deep in PTI.

This can now be fixed. Most people in the big 'new provinces' thread seem interested in either thier own nation, or in adding more provinces to Japan and China. However, I feel that for those who care about the rest of the world, map-editing is a wonderful thing to fix such places as Africa, Central Asia, Anatolia, the whole Middle East, and any other place where the current map is an obstruction to making historical mods.

I think this opportunity should be taken advatage of, and is more important than adding a zillion provinces to Europe. I hear MKJ is redrawing the entire map. I hope he remembers to keep some provinces for these areas.
 

Garbon

Sultan d'Afrique
71 Badges
Feb 1, 2002
9.748
180
www.crystalempiregames.com
  • Imperator: Rome
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Deus Vult
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
James Fox said:
This can now be fixed. Most people in the big 'new provinces' thread seem interested in either thier own nation, or in adding more provinces to Japan and China. However, I feel that for those who care about the rest of the world, map-editing is a wonderful thing to fix such places as Africa, Central Asia, Anatolia, the whole Middle East, and any other place where the current map is an obstruction to making historical mods.

I think this opportunity should be taken advatage of, and is more important than adding a zillion provinces to Europe. I hear MKJ is redrawing the entire map. I hope he remembers to keep some provinces for these areas.

You really shouldn't worry as far as MKJ is concerned. He always suggested more elaborate changes (especially for Africa) then I ever did (as I was always trying to skimp on tags to get proposals approved). But yeah the concerns you raise are why I feel that there will ultimately be a split in the map for the vanilla and for the AGCEEP.../why shouldn't there be as we apparently have different aims/ideas?
 

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
James Fox said:
I think this opportunity should be taken advatage of, and is more important than adding a zillion provinces to Europe. I hear MKJ is redrawing the entire map. I hope he remembers to keep some provinces for these areas.
He did iberian penesula...he may have done others. He added like 4 provinces he thought should be there and the placement of them.

As to Portugal...for the MP community I can understand the reasoning behind their request. However, we also haveto think about the AI, as IDLF said. IMO the best would be to compromise and give Portugal 1 more mainland province, Malderia and Azones and start them off with the latter two.

As for the whole of Europe, i think its mostly about changing province shape and sizes, with only a few additions, mostly in HRE. But even so atleast in the AGCEEP the most liberal estimates on new provinces for Europe were 20-25 i've seen.
WISK said:
Inferis will release when he's happy that all the bugs are ironed out. In the meantime, there is plenty of work for you to do. You can already make a map in Photoshop for the borders and new province names that you want to have. If you need templates from the raw map to paste into Photoshop, you can use my editor. Then when Magellan is released you will be able to create your new map more quickly.
So we should really be working on this now as he says.
 

WiSK

Major
3 Badges
Apr 30, 2002
602
0
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • 500k Club
idontlikeforms said:
I figured this but he still likes this kind of stuff and likes figuring it out. My point being that even though I am relatively ignorant on this matter at present it won't be too difficult for me to change that. Does making a new map take a ridiculous amount of time or is it fairly simple? Just want to know for a rough estimate time consumptionwise.
It can take a lot of time to learn how to use Photoshop properly. To make the borders have that nice ridge effect and the inside of the province to have an inner glow. Etcetera. So really the time you spend depends on the quality you want to achieve. If you want to move or add just a couple of things then an evening's work might be enough. To make a whole new map, you could be busy for weeks, but eventually you would get proficient and things would move quicker.

idontlikeforms said:
All of this may very well be true but my point is if most the AGCEEPers, particularly the HC members are thinking more or less along the lines that I am already AND it will be extremeley time consuming for me to make a new map myself, it may actually be worth my while to cooperate as best I can and except the fact that a few provinces I want may be rejected. However if this is not the case then I could just start thinking of how to go about making a map myself. Do my enquiries make sense now?
Yes they do, and sorry to be so vague with the answer, but it's like asking how long it would take to make your own mod. Best thing is to try it out yourself: add Madiera and see how long that takes you (or your friend).
 

unmerged(31425)

Married Man
Jul 2, 2004
2.826
0
WiSK said:
It can take a lot of time to learn how to use Photoshop properly. To make the borders have that nice ridge effect and the inside of the province to have an inner glow. Etcetera. So really the time you spend depends on the quality you want to achieve. If you want to move or add just a couple of things then an evening's work might be enough. To make a whole new map, you could be busy for weeks, but eventually you would get proficient and things would move quicker.

Yes they do, and sorry to be so vague with the answer, but it's like asking how long it would take to make your own mod. Best thing is to try it out yourself: add Madiera and see how long that takes you (or your friend).
Thnx for pointers WISK.
 

Mad King James

Buzzkill Extraordinaire
66 Badges
Jan 18, 2002
7.148
300
40
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
I've been working already for some time.

Mind you, I haven't asked anyone's opinion on anything, but that's just me :p