Why would Austria or Spain be protestantic? they have always been catholic.
[This message has been edited by Janbalk (edited 30-09-2000).]
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Why would Austria or Spain be protestantic? they have always been catholic.
[This message has been edited by Janbalk (edited 30-09-2000).]
hmm, for some reason I always thought that Austria was Protestant.
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THE KING IS DEAD, LONG LIVE HETMAN POLSKI.
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THE KING IS DEAD, LONG LIVE HETMAN POLSKI.
Possibly because they have not been as vocal about theire religion as Spain and Poland.
But Austria was the main force on the Catholic side during the 30-year war.
Heh, I'm an ignorant American and even I know that Hapsburg Austria was Catholic. It's funny when someone calls a whole nation ignorant and then in subsequent posts shows how totally ignorant he is. I like irony.
ok, lets not start this again.
but for your information.
lack of knowledge is not ignorance. it's stupitity.
ignorance is a lack of interest in gaining knowledge.
I don't know much about the Hapsburg dynasty.
I know that they were one the most influencial families in Europe. I was thought that Charles 5 divided his empire between two Habsburg family lines because of the religious disputes. western half (Spain) was Catholic, easter half (Austria) was Protestant.
I was misguided. that's what I get for attending school in U.S.
thank God I'm moving to Canada.
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THE KING IS DEAD, LONG LIVE HETMAN POLSKI.
but for your information.
lack of knowledge is not ignorance. it's stupitity.
ignorance is a lack of interest in gaining knowledge.
I don't know much about the Hapsburg dynasty.
I know that they were one the most influencial families in Europe. I was thought that Charles 5 divided his empire between two Habsburg family lines because of the religious disputes. western half (Spain) was Catholic, easter half (Austria) was Protestant.
I was misguided. that's what I get for attending school in U.S.
thank God I'm moving to Canada.
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THE KING IS DEAD, LONG LIVE HETMAN POLSKI.
Charles V abdicated during the Truce of Vaucelles in 1556. The truce was a lull in a war with France which had not at that point been going very well for Charles and I believe he suffered something like depression or something, anyway he chose to abdicate at that point. Im not sure but I assume that the laws of succession were different in Austria (where the crown went to Charles brother Ferdinand) and in the Spanish Kingdoms and possesions where his son Phillip succeeded him.
Please quit disparaging US schools, they are not one and all the same. I attended them and did quite well, while there are certainly a lot of them that are woefully inadequate others have very high standards. The average US school though is going to be a lot more concerned with 'practical' knowledge as opposed to which denomination is the state religion of particular european country. In fact religion is something that is generally avoided in our public schools because our constitution expressly seperates it from the State.
Also, If that information interests you (as it did me) then a true student does not have to be spoon fed information but learns to find it on his own. You would do well to take control of your own situation and read a book now and again, and quit blaming your ignorance on the US school system. They can not possibly teach you everything to know but if you pay attention they may give you the skills to find out anything you want for yourself.
Please quit disparaging US schools, they are not one and all the same. I attended them and did quite well, while there are certainly a lot of them that are woefully inadequate others have very high standards. The average US school though is going to be a lot more concerned with 'practical' knowledge as opposed to which denomination is the state religion of particular european country. In fact religion is something that is generally avoided in our public schools because our constitution expressly seperates it from the State.
Also, If that information interests you (as it did me) then a true student does not have to be spoon fed information but learns to find it on his own. You would do well to take control of your own situation and read a book now and again, and quit blaming your ignorance on the US school system. They can not possibly teach you everything to know but if you pay attention they may give you the skills to find out anything you want for yourself.
Spain and Austria are catholic. You can change state religion if you want (and prepare for some troubles).
On the other hand, there is a flaw in the fact that the Papal States are just another Italian minor, so you can conquer it without special penalty...
All improvements (fortifications, manufactories, marshalls, etc.) are selected on this city window. If you can upgrade something (enough money, enough tech level), it will be highlighted if you move the cursor on it.
Relations with catholic (resp. protestant) nations drop when you annex other catholic (resp. protestant) nations. Of course, you can always help afterward with royal marriages, money, etc.
It's also a reason why AUstria wasn't leader of the alliances : you have to have good relations with the other country to invite it in YOUR alliances. For ex. Austria and Venice had bad reations. Venice would have never accepted an alliance with Austria. But Russia has good relations with both Venice and Austria, so it can invite Venice, even if Austria is member of the alliance.
Actually i believe the Empire was divided because it was so huge. It was the larges European Empire since the time of Charlamagne(sp). The stress was too great for him, and he thought it would be for his succesors as well. So he divided it so as to reduce the burden. Austria to his brother and the rest to his son. I learned that in my american schools. Like it was said before there not all bad.
The best thing is to try by yourself when the game is published.
Agreed.
Defence? Woow, you have been playing a little too much wargames lately, haven't you? And I just thought it was Question and Answer. If it's Attack and Defence, alors en garde, Monsieur, réglons ce différent en gentilhommes !
Of course, AI are far away from HAL, so any human player will soon learn how to use 'the rules' against the machine. Multiplayer should definitely make a harder challenge.
And why do you think (taking the screenshot's example) Posen, as a Polish-bordering province, has such fortifications? Is that not for holding ennemy armies? Even a big army will perhaps need months or years to overcome it. If you can sign a peace in between, you haven't engaged a single man, on the field and lost nothing to a vastly superior foe.
Nonetheless, all your remarks on AI are perfectly true. EU's AI is not flawless but it is quite good also (and it appears that it does not cheat either.)
I find that a little strange, so instead of risking to give biased religious information in the schools. The schools don give any, and the students get guaranted biased religious information from his or hers religion .
To me that do not sound like a good way to get any understandig about other religions.
SWell that may be, but if you have a state sponsored denomination which I understand many European countries to have, then people in school are only going to get that view of religion and it will be very biased to. With the US system at least the bias is to ones own denomination and not inflicted from above, perhaps of a different denomination or religion, making you feel persecuted.
Dont misuderstand me, there is nothing in our constitution that says a teacher couldnt explain the religious differences that caused some of the wars in European history, so it would have been fine to have taught that Austria is/was catholic. Its just not a big priority in US public schools, since they dont talk about religion for its own sake. Many US Private schools do in fact have actual classes on religion (they are run by different denominations) and a lot of US children go to these private, religious schools.
The North American colonies had a long history of people immigrating from Europe because of religious persecution, especially in the Northern part (not so much in the south like Virginia which was much more traditional Anglican church, etc.). An interesting thing is that when they got here and set up their colonial governments, they were no better at tolerating people who thought differently than they did than the European established churches had been, so often times some groups would leave the first colonies and move farther inland, or to different places to be able to practise their religion freely.
So by the time of the birth of the US as a nation, you had many different denominations in the country. For instance Maryland had a lot of Catholics i think, Pennsylvania had lots of Quakers, the southern states were mostly Anglicans, and New England had much of the old Puritan type denominations, though also some new ones.
The framers of the US constitution thought (wisely I think) that it should not be the governments role to have anything to do with religion, that should be left to the free will of the people, and could be organized by the churches that the people wanted to support. This extended to schools when the government started public schools (which was many years later) and so it is the job of the parents to teach their children about religion and not of the government. That is why in private schools they teach about religion, since the government doesnt run them, and the parents have control of whether they go to that school or not.
It is interesting to point out that here in the US, where we dont teach about religion in our schools but rather at home or in churches, and where there is no government support of religion, I think that we have much more church attendance and 'practicing' members of churches statistically than in many European countries that have a state sponsored religion and may even spend part of the budget on religious instruction and keeping up the churches, etc. So it seems that statistically, our system works pretty well, if you are looking at it from the perspective of churchgoing as a good thing.
Dont misuderstand me, there is nothing in our constitution that says a teacher couldnt explain the religious differences that caused some of the wars in European history, so it would have been fine to have taught that Austria is/was catholic. Its just not a big priority in US public schools, since they dont talk about religion for its own sake. Many US Private schools do in fact have actual classes on religion (they are run by different denominations) and a lot of US children go to these private, religious schools.
The North American colonies had a long history of people immigrating from Europe because of religious persecution, especially in the Northern part (not so much in the south like Virginia which was much more traditional Anglican church, etc.). An interesting thing is that when they got here and set up their colonial governments, they were no better at tolerating people who thought differently than they did than the European established churches had been, so often times some groups would leave the first colonies and move farther inland, or to different places to be able to practise their religion freely.
So by the time of the birth of the US as a nation, you had many different denominations in the country. For instance Maryland had a lot of Catholics i think, Pennsylvania had lots of Quakers, the southern states were mostly Anglicans, and New England had much of the old Puritan type denominations, though also some new ones.
The framers of the US constitution thought (wisely I think) that it should not be the governments role to have anything to do with religion, that should be left to the free will of the people, and could be organized by the churches that the people wanted to support. This extended to schools when the government started public schools (which was many years later) and so it is the job of the parents to teach their children about religion and not of the government. That is why in private schools they teach about religion, since the government doesnt run them, and the parents have control of whether they go to that school or not.
It is interesting to point out that here in the US, where we dont teach about religion in our schools but rather at home or in churches, and where there is no government support of religion, I think that we have much more church attendance and 'practicing' members of churches statistically than in many European countries that have a state sponsored religion and may even spend part of the budget on religious instruction and keeping up the churches, etc. So it seems that statistically, our system works pretty well, if you are looking at it from the perspective of churchgoing as a good thing.
Hi Count_M,
Excuse me but I find it hard to follow the discussion because I do not understand quite well what you call 'denomination'. It seems to be 'religion' but could you explain what you understand exactly with it.
The topic seems to be 'Is there an effect os State religion on education', am I right.
I was myself wondering which country still have a state religion(s), where is this fact written (constitution, etc.) and what they are.
You tell us:
USA - no state religion - constitution
I know (or think I know, if I am mistaken, tell me):
France - no state religion - constitution
Germany - Catholicism and Protestantism - I know there is a non compulsory Church tax but I do not recall how it works exactly
United Kingdom - Anglicans - Queen is head of Church and head of State
Ireland - Catholicism - ?
Greece - Orthodoxy - ?
For all others, I realise that I don't know. It would be nice of all of you to tell us how it works in your country.
Excuse me but I find it hard to follow the discussion because I do not understand quite well what you call 'denomination'. It seems to be 'religion' but could you explain what you understand exactly with it.
The topic seems to be 'Is there an effect os State religion on education', am I right.
I was myself wondering which country still have a state religion(s), where is this fact written (constitution, etc.) and what they are.
You tell us:
USA - no state religion - constitution
I know (or think I know, if I am mistaken, tell me):
France - no state religion - constitution
Germany - Catholicism and Protestantism - I know there is a non compulsory Church tax but I do not recall how it works exactly
United Kingdom - Anglicans - Queen is head of Church and head of State
Ireland - Catholicism - ?
Greece - Orthodoxy - ?
For all others, I realise that I don't know. It would be nice of all of you to tell us how it works in your country.
I see, the point of Count_M, and yes no religion in school is better than a heavily biased one. But Swedish school try to give a indepenten picture about every major religion (not totally successfully), and the religion are not taught by the believers themselves. But Sweden tend to have a overdeveloped confidence in government officials.
In Sweden goverment and state are now separeted (since about a year), I think they at the same time removed Lutherism as official religion but may be wrong in that.
I do not find churchgoing or even belief being the main reason for religous education, knowledge is my main purpose.
I beliefs the main purpose then the US system for religious education works better than ours.
I apologise for staring this discussion, who probably is little to OT.
[This message has been edited by Janbalk (edited 04-10-2000).]
In Sweden goverment and state are now separeted (since about a year), I think they at the same time removed Lutherism as official religion but may be wrong in that.
I do not find churchgoing or even belief being the main reason for religous education, knowledge is my main purpose.
I beliefs the main purpose then the US system for religious education works better than ours.
I apologise for staring this discussion, who probably is little to OT.
[This message has been edited by Janbalk (edited 04-10-2000).]
yndenwal:
'Religion' could be Christian, Buddism, Hindu, Muslim, etc. 'Denomination' are all Christian (well or they are when talking about Christians, i suppose that you could say Islam is divided between 'denominations of Shiite and Sunni, and Judaism is divided between Hasidic, Orthodox, etc. 'denominations'), but could be Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc., etc.
Janbalk:
Np, OT is ok, since we are sitting here pulling our hair out waiting for EU release and we have almost run out of stuff to discuss about the game, plus its too late to really have any of our ideas change the game now I think. I for one an very disapointed that now apparently I cant just use a credit card to buy the German version
As for Sweden and the rest of Europe's education about religion, etc., im sure it is much more balanced than it was when the colonists started comming over in the 16th-17th centuries, I am just showing how our system developed. I plan to teach my children (I have a daughter just born 3 months ago) about all sorts of religions and denominations, because I agree that it can be a very bad thing for people not to understand each other and have tolerance. Its just that in the US, while they might teach about tolerance, they do not teach about religion, for the reasons I have posted earlier.
Actually to get back a little more on topic, does colonization in any way interact with the religion of a province? It seems like countries having more religious unrest/ wars at home should get more colonists (this did not only happen in England, i think a lot of French Hugenots immigrated to the French new world colonies at certain times). And if you plant a colony say in Quebec, what religion will it be? Are your colonists automatically of your state religion? Is Maryland going to be Catholic no matter who sets up a colony there (it was where a lot of the English Catholics migrated to)?
Oh and I cant believe I actually made captain. How many posts do i need for major?
'Religion' could be Christian, Buddism, Hindu, Muslim, etc. 'Denomination' are all Christian (well or they are when talking about Christians, i suppose that you could say Islam is divided between 'denominations of Shiite and Sunni, and Judaism is divided between Hasidic, Orthodox, etc. 'denominations'), but could be Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc., etc.
Janbalk:
Np, OT is ok, since we are sitting here pulling our hair out waiting for EU release and we have almost run out of stuff to discuss about the game, plus its too late to really have any of our ideas change the game now I think. I for one an very disapointed that now apparently I cant just use a credit card to buy the German version
As for Sweden and the rest of Europe's education about religion, etc., im sure it is much more balanced than it was when the colonists started comming over in the 16th-17th centuries, I am just showing how our system developed. I plan to teach my children (I have a daughter just born 3 months ago) about all sorts of religions and denominations, because I agree that it can be a very bad thing for people not to understand each other and have tolerance. Its just that in the US, while they might teach about tolerance, they do not teach about religion, for the reasons I have posted earlier.
Actually to get back a little more on topic, does colonization in any way interact with the religion of a province? It seems like countries having more religious unrest/ wars at home should get more colonists (this did not only happen in England, i think a lot of French Hugenots immigrated to the French new world colonies at certain times). And if you plant a colony say in Quebec, what religion will it be? Are your colonists automatically of your state religion? Is Maryland going to be Catholic no matter who sets up a colony there (it was where a lot of the English Catholics migrated to)?
Oh and I cant believe I actually made captain. How many posts do i need for major?
The main divisions are between Progressive/Liberal/Reform, Conservative/Masorti, and Orthodox denominations, actually.
When created, a colony has the religion of your kingdom.
Ex. : France is catholic. A colony is created in Quebec : it is catholic. France converts to Protestantism. Quebec remains catholic but the newly created colony in Isle Royale is Protestant.
As sending a colonist in a province with less than 5000 pop will convert it to your religion, it is fairly easy to convert young colonies.
Ex. Catholic France declares war on Protestant England and conquers Protestant Massachussets (1200 pop). France sends a colonist there, converting Massachussets to Catholicism.