Habitats (Void Dwellers mostly) being left behind?

[BrokenSky]

I mean it might be interesting to give Void Dwellers access to technologies which let them build the ring-buildings on habitats, potentially with some restrictions applied, although habitats' intrinsic limitations on building slots is already going to be a bit of a restriction.

 

[Verx90]

I mean it might be interesting to give Void Dwellers access to technologies which let them build the ring-buildings on habitats, potentially with some restrictions applied, although habitats' intrinsic limitations on building slots is already going to be a bit of a restriction.

the problem with giving "only" to void dwellers things , is that other may ask " why we can't do it?" ... since void dwellers are not exatly another kind or strange xenoforms.

my closet dream is for voidborn to be trasformed in an "horde" like gameplay. where they have movable " habitats " that can move from system to system , that receive particolar bonus while in orbit of different kind of objects , and while inside another empire to give bonus\malus ( like increase trade value , piracy , criminality etc. ) capable of raiding empires that close borders to them becoming " aggressive " while inside theyr systems .
edit: to incentivate the "roaming" they could have a bonus when enteryng a new system, and a buildup malus overtime for staying in the same system .

edit2: now that i think about , they would work so damn well with the new vassals system . as they have no interest in actualy conquering systems , they could wage wars in order to vassalize static empires , while waging war against other hordes to take control of them (or vassalize )

i would like for void dwellers to have a very different game-style , renouncing to planets complety in order to have a very special origin .

 

[HFY]

I mean it might be interesting to give Void Dwellers access to technologies which let them build the ring-buildings on habitats, potentially with some restrictions applied, although habitats' intrinsic limitations on building slots is already going to be a bit of a restriction.

I'd like it if regular Starbases could build those buildings, and the Starbase building applied to all Habitats in the system (but not planets).

Void Dwellers would definitely lean on this but it wouldn't be limited to them.

 

[zZander56]

eh... the system of the pops worked ( not fine , but at least filling a planet that was not your capital was a possibility before end-game ) and so ringworlds and habitats were usefull ....

nowdays if you have enought space, you ignore habitats , as it would take around 150 years to fill them , and ringworlds are just decorations as without your direct imput ( resetlement) it can take up to 200-300 years of pop growth to fill them depending on the number of pops you have .

atm, once you reach around 300-500 pops, the best way to increase your economy is to conquer other empires, as it would add to your pops directly with no wait for the pops to grow .




but we all know why we reached this place , its because pops are the main reason the game lose performance in mid-lategame .

i would approve a rework of the pop system where we remove the idea of pop entity and embrace statistical pops.

I remember a decent implementation of statistical pops through a mod back in the pre-2.0 days. I've always liked the idea, and it seems this could solve a few problems with the game.

 

[HFY]

I remember a decent implementation of statistical pops through a mod back in the pre-2.0 days. I've always liked the idea, and it seems this could solve a few problems with the game.

IIRC the thing with statistical pops is that they have no room for species traits.

I think statistics can work really well if you've only got one species, but I haven't seen any proposals which actually make species matter *and* handle pops as pure statistics.

 

[Verx90]

I think statistics can work really well if you've only got one species, but I haven't seen any proposals which actually make species matter *and* handle pops as pure statistics.

* and actualy help with performance .

it is possible to have statistic take in consideration race- traits etc. but it could become even worst for performance than the pop entity .

 

[Drakonn]

I mean it might be interesting to give Void Dwellers access to technologies which let them build the ring-buildings on habitats, potentially with some restrictions applied, although habitats' intrinsic limitations on building slots is already going to be a bit of a restriction.

Planets, which already outperform Habitats, are getting yet another buff with Orbital Rings. Void Dwellers (not necessarily Habitats, as anyone with a planet can get those and not vice versa) need something to keep up with this buff. Orbital Rings also being cheaper than Habitats.

the problem with giving "only" to void dwellers things , is that other may ask " why we can't do it?" ... since void dwellers are not exatly another kind or strange xenoforms.

While true, this wouldn't be the first time mechanics have been limited by an Origin or Civic. Without it, Void Dwellers will be a bit dead in the water. Especially, as someone mentioned earlier, their specialist deposits don't work for Moons.

 

[Verx90]

While true, this wouldn't be the first time mechanics have been limited by an Origin or Civic. Without it, Void Dwellers will be a bit dead in the water. Especially, as someone mentioned earlier, their specialist deposits don't work for Moons.

well... as habitats are not realy limited to void dwellers , its true that they can colonize any planets once they have access to any pops . youcould say that this ""nerf"" xenohpobe void dweller in particolar , as they can't realy use other pops as specialist\leaders on those planets.

and if you buff void dwellers , you end up buffing those that don't particolary have problems with having citizen rights pops .

i already expressed how i fell about what should be done to the origin of void dwellers , so i'm not going to repeat myself.

but at the moment void dwellers are regular empires that start with habitats. they are going to use the orbital ring as any other empires , as the tech will come by the time they have access to planets anyway by droids or pops .

at best the orbital rings are a nerf to the xenophobe that realy don't want xeno, spiritaulist xenophobe if they realy want to ignore robots and xenos . i don't remember if the genetic ascension alow you to change a race preference and remove habitat habitability( i guess no? ) in the worst case scenario , xenophobe will have to use sintetics with AI citizenship , and spiritualist will have to be happy about theyr ascension and tradition and ignore those pesky syntetic.

 

[Ikael]

Perhaps giving habitats that orbit around habitable planets extra districts could be a way to balance them out VS ring worlds. If it is too much of a boon, then you can always put that bonus behind the Voidborne Ascension Perk.

 

[Pancakelord]

I think habitats should be changed, so if built over a primary without a deposit (e.g. a gas giant) they also capture any orbital deposits from linked moons (so if the gas giant lacks an orbital deposit, you can get the mineral deposit from its moon, for example. In the event of 2 different types, get to pick which one with a planet decision).

And they can build up to 3(1 per hab tier) 'outposts' on the [uninhabitable] planet they orbit, that require no pops. E.g.

• [Gas giants] gas mining facilities on gas giants, yielding pop-free minerals or rare resources (occasionally).
• Aerostat or domed satellite colonies adding pop growth to the orbiting habitat, but burning through amenities & CGs.
• Scientific camps that provide research, pop-free.
• magma-energy harvesting operations [Molten worlds]
• Precious gem refinement giving trade value [molten worlds]
• Special military training facilities, adding to defence army count [toxic worlds]
• Tourism domes [increased immigration pull] on barren worlds.
• Auxillary mechanism / cloning compounds (req. Relevant tech/ap etc) that boost pop assembly.
• And so on

This might be testable in 3.4. Depending on how the orbital rings have been coded, via adding a planet decision 'build satellite colony' via the habitat, that basically spawns an orbital ring with no graphics, no shipyards, and a custom permitted set of buildings on to the planet the habitat orbits.

 

[MathyM]

I think habitats should be changed, so if built over a primary without a deposit (e.g. a gas giant) they also capture any orbital deposits from linked moons (so if the gas giant lacks an orbital deposit, you can get the mineral deposit from its moon, for example. In the event of 2 different types, get to pick which one with a planet decision).

This is very annoying. I sometimes see a deposit that I want to explore, build a habitat there, and then realize much later that the resource I needed was actually on a moon

 

[Sanvone]

the problem with giving "only" to void dwellers things , is that other may ask " why we can't do it?" ... since void dwellers are not exatly another kind or strange xenoforms.

my closet dream is for voidborn to be trasformed in an "horde" like gameplay. where they have movable " habitats " that can move from system to system , that receive particolar bonus while in orbit of different kind of objects , and while inside another empire to give bonus\malus ( like increase trade value , piracy , criminality etc. ) capable of raiding empires that close borders to them becoming " aggressive " while inside theyr systems .
edit: to incentivate the "roaming" they could have a bonus when enteryng a new system, and a buildup malus overtime for staying in the same system .

edit2: now that i think about , they would work so damn well with the new vassals system . as they have no interest in actualy conquering systems , they could wage wars in order to vassalize static empires , while waging war against other hordes to take control of them (or vassalize )

i would like for void dwellers to have a very different game-style , renouncing to planets complety in order to have a very special origin .

I would argue they totally are. One example is Orbital Prospecting from traditions. Regular empires can't do this, voidborne can't Prospect Planets. The same goes for different technologies availability for Gestalts.

I would like Nomadic flotilla gameplay but it doesn't have to be occupying the same "slot" as void dwellers.

 

[Navar]

the problem with giving "only" to void dwellers things , is that other may ask " why we can't do it?" ... since void dwellers are not exatly another kind or strange xenoforms.

my closet dream is for voidborn to be trasformed in an "horde" like gameplay. where they have movable " habitats " that can move from system to system , that receive particolar bonus while in orbit of different kind of objects , and while inside another empire to give bonus\malus ( like increase trade value , piracy , criminality etc. ) capable of raiding empires that close borders to them becoming " aggressive " while inside theyr systems .
edit: to incentivate the "roaming" they could have a bonus when enteryng a new system, and a buildup malus overtime for staying in the same system .

edit2: now that i think about , they would work so damn well with the new vassals system . as they have no interest in actualy conquering systems , they could wage wars in order to vassalize static empires , while waging war against other hordes to take control of them (or vassalize )

i would like for void dwellers to have a very different game-style , renouncing to planets complety in order to have a very special origin .

Void Dwellers shouldn't have to vanish to get a Nomadic Civilization origin.

 

[Oculument]

With the introduction of Orbital Rings on the way, Habitats are looking less and less useful. This is mostly an issue for Void Dweller empires who are being significantly left behind by this. Or am I missing something? Especially since they are exclusive to getting Habitats.

The voice of Power Creep speaks. If power increases anywhere, fairness dictates that it must increase everywhere!

 

[Lorenerd11]

Void Dwellers shouldn't have to vanish to get a Nomadic Civilization origin.

Only loosely related, but I really wish the Marauders were a proper Habitat-dwelling civilization that you could actually conquer, instead of their dwellings always being completely decimated.

 

[GuardianGI]

As a Void Dweller you can release a 1 pop colony as a vassal and in 100 years they will have built 5+ habitats and have 100+ pops. Combine this with Overlord allowing you to tax research and vassals retaining most of their difficulty bonuses and you will have a truly powerful tall empire.

Void Dwellers are going to be OP if anything in Overlord.

 

[Devanor]

Strategic resource habitats can be solid if you find a 3+ deposit of something, or if you find 2 + basic (e.g. 2 gas + 2 energy) and you can make a Mining or Generator Habitat with 2 extractor buildings.

A few Trade Habitats are useful on any trade build.

They're never your favorite nor where you put most of your pops, but non-Dwellers can use them in several niches.

"Strategic resource habitat"?

 

[DeanTheDull]

"Strategic resource habitat"?

When you build a habitat on Strategic Resources in space (crystals/gas/motes), the habitat gets that base value deposit as a planetary deposit, allowing them to build that many of the strategic resource miner buildings that give base 2 of the strategic resource. These are not only much cheaper than refinery buildings- not having the 10 mineral upkeep- but as worker-strata jobs typically benefit from many more worker bonus modifiers than hard-to-find specialist modifiers.

It's basically a multiplication of your space-based strategic resources.

 

[Devanor]

When you build a habitat on Strategic Resources in space (crystals/gas/motes), the habitat gets that base value deposit as a planetary deposit, allowing them to build that many of the strategic resource miner buildings that give base 2 of the strategic resource. These are not only much cheaper than refinery buildings- not having the 10 mineral upkeep- but as worker-strata jobs typically benefit from many more worker bonus modifiers than hard-to-find specialist modifiers.

It's basically a multiplication of your space-based strategic resources.

Oh, so that's why Mining Habitat has a bonus for strategic resource output!

Void Dweller is one of my favorite origins, yet I had no idea about this...

 

[DeanTheDull]

Oh, so that's why Mining Habitat has a bonus for strategic resource output!

Void Dweller is one of my favorite origins, yet I had no idea about this...

To be clear, it's not that mining habitats have a bonus for strategic resource output, but rather than strategic resource deposit jobs count as 'mining' jobs for bonuses. Refineries don't, and so are higher cost/lower payoff.

Of course, the Void Dweller trait is 15% to all jobs, so eh. 10% refinery bonus or 15% mining designation depends on which of the two buildings you'll have more of.