Habitability change in 1.5 ?

[Crenickator]

You mean "nothing to differentiate" except for tiles with more or less minerals. And tile placement. And species on the planet. And placement or lack of food tiles. And tiles with both food and minerals. And number of tiles. And types of tile blockers. And Stone Age primitives.

You're just being pedantic and arguing semantics. You can just say a building line to differentiate the way a planet develops to the exclusion of other building lines is a bad idea.

I kinda see where you are going here, and I like it. You're talking about theme-related concepts, and adding mechanics to fit those themes, and I am all for that, because it will add so much diversity. A barren world that has been turned into a giant mine that provides half the EMPIRE with it's minerals is a cool sci-fi theme, and right now there's no way you can do that. Being able to do that would be cool.

Yeah, this. Highly specialized worlds that require some forethought and sacrifice of a planet's other benefits to focus on one thing. There are minutae that can alter the output of any given world, but at the end of the day the output is really all that's different. Min/maxing bonuses is not the same thing.

 

[Secret Master]

You're just being pedantic and arguing semantics. You can just say a building line to differentiate the way a planet develops to the exclusion of other building lines is a bad idea.

I think all of those things I listed are important for differentiating planets.

Mining and agriculture costs energy. Because of this, the availability of minerals, food, and energy on tiles radically changes how you should set up planets. If a planet does not have a decent amount of minerals on tiles, plus enough special buffs on the planet, it may simply not be suitable for heavy mineral use. If the minerals and food all occupy the same tiles, we have to determine whether the extra tiles I need for food (when giving up the food/mineral tiles for minerals) justify the conversion of a planet to total mineral production. Every mine or farm you put down uses energy, meaning that even if a planet produces 250 minerals a month, it's got to justify it's mineral out in terms of the energy credits you are spending for it. If it costs 100 energy to produce only 150 minerals, you could probably do better.

The presence of Stone Age primitives is a huge consideration depending on your ethos. If you can't enslave them, then you end up with a planet that has horrid tile placement. Not suitable for mining except for slavers.

If you are able to populate a planet with a species suitable for mining, that increases the energy to minerals ratio. But that either costs influence, cost minerals and energy (for robots/droids/synths), or requires genetic engineering. But it can make a large difference.

Then there's the slaves/non-slaves question to address. And a whole list of other things.

While I can understand that planets are not "thematic" enough, let's not pretend that the decision(s) about what to do with a planet are not complicated.

 

[Crenickator]

While I can understand that planets are not "thematic" enough, let's not pretend that the decision(s) about what to do with a planet are not complicated.

I'm just of the opinion that the complication is chiefly from trying to min/max everything, while the exact same strategies can be used anywhere for a similar, if less efficient, return. To me, that isn't depth, but we can agree to disagree. We play these games for different reasons, and I fall chiefly in the RP realm.

 

[Secret Master]

I'm just of the opinion that the complication is chiefly from trying to min/max everything, while the exact same strategies can be used anywhere for a similar, if less efficient, return. To me, that isn't depth, but we can agree to disagree. We play these games for different reasons, and I fall chiefly in the RP realm.

If you want more RP options for planets for story purposes, then I fully agree with you. I'd love more ways for planets to have personalities. I'm personally holding out for the possibility to turn worlds into Ecumenopolis over time, or have far more options for pre-sentients and Stone Age primitives.

The game does a good job of making planets differentiated in terms of mechanics. The personalities can be a bit lacking. My horrible Gulag planets should really get some kind of flavor art and text after I turn them into hellholes for the slaves that live there.

 

[Crenickator]

My horrible Gulag planets should really get some kind of flavor art and text after I turn them into hellholes for the slaves that live there.

Told you your slaves have it too good!

 

[Secret Master]

Told you your slaves have it too good!

"This is Gulag. Notice the lush, verdant valleys of beautiful farmland. The glistening cities on the all the hills. The busy capital with the newest technology. The ponies frolicking in the meadows."

"Why call it Gulag if it's so pleasant?"

"Because the proles are still slaves working at the behest of their master's whips. The whips are diamond encrusted and designed by Versace, of course, and the slaves sleep in rooms that rival the crew quarters in Star Trek: The Next Generation, but they still have to report to the slave processing facility every month for, umm, memory wiping. We wouldn't want them to remember how fattening their meals are."

"So you crossed 1984 with My Little Pony. Now I see why the Unbidden want to cleanse our galaxy."

 

[Crenickator]

"So you crossed 1984 with My Little Pony. I think I see why the Unbidden want to cleanse our galaxy, now."

 

[Magnificent Genius]

That's...really creepy.

 

[TheBromgrev]

I almost never terraform.

There are far better ways to deal with habitability. Genetic modification, droids, getting new species in your empire, buildings that increase habitability, strategic resources that increase habitability, techs that increase habitability.

In fact, one of the great advantages to both conquest and migration treaties is gaining POPs that can colonize all types of worlds. Who needs terrarforming?

Habitability: Making Xenos Great, Again. (Even if we oppress them.)

Those of us who follow the ways of the fanatical purifiers need use terraforming. Xeno slaves can be tolerated living on their inhospitable (to the true master race) worlds long enough to expand the empire's borders. Once the borders are far enough away from the planet, the xenos get purged and the planet terraformed into a virigin paradise for the true master race.

All joking aside, this kind of debate is what I like about this game. Several options on how to play, all viable even if some options are more optimal than others.

 

[Secret Master]

Those of us who follow the ways of the fanatical purifiers need use terraforming. Xeno slaves can be tolerated living on their inhospitable (to the true master race) worlds long enough to expand the empire's borders. Once the borders are far enough away from the planet, the xenos get purged and the planet terraformed into a virigin paradise for the true master race.

All joking aside, this kind of debate is what I like about this game. Several options on how to play, all viable even if some options are more optimal than others.

I was going to make a comment about how purging your xeno slaves is "an appalling waste of biomass," but I realized that it didn't really give my ethos the moral high ground to call sentient beings "biomass."

 

[TheBromgrev]

Reminds me of this little gem of a thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...like-a-little-genocide-in-the-morning.959501/

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

rooms that rival the crew quarters in Star Trek: The Next Generation

In fairness TNG was not exactly an example of opulence- the crew quarters were honestly pretty drab and unappealing unless you like abstract statues.

 

[Secret Master]

In fairness TNG was not exactly an example of opulence- the crew quarters were honestly pretty drab and unappealing unless you like abstract statues.

I'll take the abstract statues if I can have a replicator make me a cup of tea instantly and at the right temperature.

(I'll keep a bottle of real booze in my desk drawer, though, because apparently replicators are bad at making booze.)

 

[Derp]

In fairness TNG was not exactly an example of opulence- the crew quarters were honestly pretty drab and unappealing unless you like abstract statues.

Everything the Federation does is either drab and unappealing or mired in the past

 

[Secret Master]

Everything the Federation does is either drab and unappealing or mired in the past

What drab, unappealing, or mired in the past might look like:

(Betazoids marry in the nude; she was preparing to get married in this scene.)

Keep in mind, she's a Federation Ambassador, and has an adult daughter. Even if she's not your type, I'd hardly call her drab.

 

[dskod1]

Lets steer this hijacked ship back on course shall we. Discussion is Habitability changes in 1.5, keep on topic.

Thanks,
Dylan

 

[Xoatl]

Excellent ideas in this thread. But to help further specialize a planet in unique ways as well as increase the usefulness of hybrid planets, I recommend additional special tile blockers, buildings, events, and planet special resources. The planet micromanagement is very entertaining in this game. Excess food should be pooled with needy planets obviously getting priority (unless a planet is blockaded/occupied, or for whatever reason not participating in the empire's trade). Growth shouldn't take food into account unless the planet is starving. Growth should be based on habitability, techs, traits, modifiers, and possibly ethos or government.

EDIT: On food, a previous thread some weeks ago had a very good idea. Make food a normal resource like energy, minerals, science, and influence. The storage cap would be very low without techs or grain silos, like 20 at the start of the game from the planetary capital. That would accomplish exactly what I described above without too much work I'd wager. Also it makes total sense, everything is so intuitive with the way tiles work, you work a 2 physics tile and that goes to the total up top. What happened to food? Especially when it's inclusion would offer a satisfying dimension to the game, making mining/energy/science/food planets possible.

 

[Airowird]

See, I really dislike the comments of just 'making it a glo.. galactic resource'.
It just dulls down the game imho.

What I'ld rather see is something being done with surplus food, rather than its only advantage currently being "When a POP migrates to a colony from here, it takes less time to refill it" which then would make the repeatable tech worth a damn with sector AI
This could be:
* Increased Happiness (think replacing part of the efficient farms with more luxurious/flavoured food, like coffee)
* Increased Army/Spaceport power (think extra rations during war, affordable food losses due to raids/bombardment not causing attrition,...)
* Some sort of Diplomatic Power, be it internal ('Ethic Divergence' for being benevolent) or external (basicly Trade Power)

My personal preference would go to the first option, as it also makes Habitability more of an issue/game mechanic.


PS: Why does everyone complain about food surplus but getting an 8th source of Strategic Resource which only allows you to a) ignore it or b) farm it & trade it to your enemy (because all your friends already are getting it from you) is completely accepted?

 

[Secret Master]

PS: Why does everyone complain about food surplus but getting an 8th source of Strategic Resource which only allows you to a) ignore it or b) farm it & trade it to your enemy (because all your friends already are getting it from you) is completely accepted?

Because if you own 90% of the galaxy's strategic resource X, you can not only loan it to friends, but also deny it to your enemies.

"Oh, you use kinetics? Too bad. I own most of the teldar crystals."

 

[Airowird]

Because if you own 90% of the galaxy's strategic resource X, you can not only loan it to friends, but also deny it to your enemies.

"Oh, you use kinetics? Too bad. I own most of the teldar crystals."

But that only matters if they don't own any of it.
"Hey giant rivaling empire, you got 2 Teldar Crystals? I got 6 and 5 of them DON'T MATTER AT ALL!"
It's also hard to know if enemies own any strategic resources at all, because the game only allows you to trade surplus, so you just see it if they have too much of it.
Why can't SR just give like an extra 1% or so past the first level?