• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

finalstrike64

Recruit
68 Badges
Sep 8, 2012
2
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities in Motion
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I'm nearing the end of my 1st full CK2 game ever, and one of the 1st things I noticed was the magical navy mechanic. But I think it can be tweaked to make naval travel more realistic, and here's how: add a supply factor to navies.

The amount of supplies a navy should have should depend on the troop to ship ratio so that navies with extra ships should have more supplies since they're not crammed full of troops, leaving room for more food and supplies, like in reality. Once the supplies run out attrition should begin.

Of course this in itself does nothing much other than slightly increase the troops who will survive the long voyage...but we could go a step further and provide ways to resupply your navies while on a voyage. For example, docking your ships in a port you control (we could include occupied territories too so you can get home) should gradually restore your navy's supplies (like how you need time to restore armies' morale). This would also add time to your total voyage, making travel times seem more realistic and less... magical.

"But finalstrike, what if I'm the king of Norway and want to make war on the Byzantine Empire, but I don't have any territory anywhere near there? I'd run out of supplies really early and be unable to resupply!!!" Well, friend, the solution is visiting friendly ports. Include a mechanic where you can land your fleet in a ruler's territory (who you are NOT at war with), with the ruler's permission. It could be an option in the diplomacy screen such as: Request Permission to Dock. If the ruler accepts then you can land your fleets there for a certain period of time (this is cancelled immediately if you go to war with the ruler). The more a ruler likes you the more likely they'll accept. Your allies will always accept (making alliances much more useful). There could be other factors too. For example, you being at war with one of their allies could be a consideration as well. You pay a certain amount of gold to the ruler as long as you remain docked (paying for space in their harbor). You pay even more as long as you are resupplying (paying for goods). This increases the cost of naval travel, making it more realistic.

For those tyrants out there who have no friends or allies, an intrigue option could be created to allow you to dock anyway, such as a Forge Harbormaster Permission option. This would give the same effect as consent...except for pissing off the ruler as well.

There you have it, a way to make naval travel longer, more expensive, and, thus, more realistic without drastically destabilizing the game or hindering your ability for large naval invasions (in theory). It also adds a new element to consider with your foreign policy making. It doesn't fix eveything, but I feel it's a step in the right direction.

Thoughts?
 

unmerged(457435)

Court Jester
4 Badges
Feb 24, 2012
443
2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Pillars of Eternity
I thought they did a good job with Navies in Rome:Vae Victus which is very similar to this game. In the game, Navies cost a lot to build and maintain and it took a while to build a large navy. However, if you were able to build a large navy and win a decisive naval battle...then you had an advantage over the enemy even if they had a mega-army. You could often blockade strategic choke points to prevent them from attacking you and things of that nature.

There was also sea attrition and pirate fleets to spice up the sea.

I don't see why going that route again would be bad.

--Edit--

And in the same vein, you had a manpower system in Rome so that you could consistently rebuild massive armies if a campaign went badly. This game doesn't really have that, in my experience. That could be tweaked to make wars more costly affairs.

this.
 

imperium3

Fascist and disgusting
37 Badges
Jul 14, 2012
967
1.275
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
It's a good idea, but wouldn't it screw up the Hundred Years War somewhat if the English have to pay through the nose to Pisa every time they want to invade?
 

StephenT

OT iconoclast
89 Badges
Mar 10, 2001
8.721
317
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
I think naval levies could be rebalanced, but a complete change would break more than it fixed. I do think every coastal holding should be able to raise some ships - it would be pretty ludicrous if most of Scandinavia had no ships because they don't have many city holdings, and it would penalise smaller island nations too badly.

However, I do agree that the game should be tweaked. Reduce the normal naval levy from provinces - but don't abolish it entirely - so any coastal province can scrape together a few ships, but not transport mighty armies. Rebalance that by increasing the number of ships produced by specialised port cities, to compensate.



Another option, which would be very realistic but might not be fun gameplay, is to introduce random journey delays. Give your fleet an order to move - or try to change its move orders once given - and there will be a randomly-determined period of anything from a day to three months before your new order takes effect. This represents things like William the Bastard waiting months for a favourable wind just to cross a couple of dozen miles of sea, or the Norwegian Crusade mentioned earlier taking three years.

At a stroke, that would stop the gamey tactic of keeping an army in a fleet offshore to land when your smaller army there gets attacked. It might be a month before your fleet actually responds to the order to land, by which time your other army will be wiped out and the enemy is sitting there waiting for you, entrenched in the mountains...