guide to royal marriages, personal unions and claim throne.

guide to royal marriages, personal unions and claim throne.

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etf2

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So claiming as much smaller nation. In my Provence run I claimed heirless France (same dynasty) but they had same dynasty noble succeeding.
 

Kajaev

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I recently fought a SW with Burgundy (as Italy) to create my first PU ever. Burgundy had PU's over Holland, Brabant and Flanders. I still wasn't clear, after reading through many posts here and watching the videos, what would happen to these three nations after the war was over. From what I had read it sounded unlikely I wouldn't have a PU over any of them, though Burgundy might. Instead, this is what immediately happened upon peace:
I received four messages for Holland: I got a PU, it was broken (I got a CB on them), then I got the PU again and was told the CB no longer applied. End result: PU over Holland, no CB.
I received two messages for Flanders, first saying I had a PU, then that the PU had been broken and I now had a CB. End result: CB on Flanders.
I received one message for Burgundy, saying I now had a PU over them. End result: PU over Burgundy.
I received one message from Brabant saying the PU had been broken and I now had a CB. But there wasn't one. End result: Peace, no PU or CB, with Brabant.

All three nations had relations between -41 and -76 with me prior to the peace. Despite not knowing what would happen, it seems incredible that all three nations would have such different end results. Why is that?

FYI, Flanders had its own dynasty and heir, but within a month Flanders got a PU under Burgundy (now my lesser partner.) My dynasty replaced their old one. It created what we commonly see with Castile over Aragon over Naples. How could that happen?

Lastly, Brabant still has my dynasty (but a Duke is ruling). The weird thing is Brabant's heir is my heir. Exact age, states and name. Odd, no? I'm totally at a loss on how to understand this. In case it matters, a new pope had been elected 5-8 years before (I can't remember exactly), so I was likely in a 'Tier 1' state. Any ideas on what happened?
 

atwix

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I recently fought a SW with Burgundy (as Italy) to create my first PU ever. Burgundy had PU's over Holland, Brabant and Flanders. I still wasn't clear, after reading through many posts here and watching the videos, what would happen to these three nations after the war was over. From what I had read it sounded unlikely I wouldn't have a PU over any of them, though Burgundy might. Instead, this is what immediately happened upon peace:
I received four messages for Holland: I got a PU, it was broken (I got a CB on them), then I got the PU again and was told the CB no longer applied. End result: PU over Holland, no CB.
I received two messages for Flanders, first saying I had a PU, then that the PU had been broken and I now had a CB. End result: CB on Flanders.
I received one message for Burgundy, saying I now had a PU over them. End result: PU over Burgundy.
I received one message from Brabant saying the PU had been broken and I now had a CB. But there wasn't one. End result: Peace, no PU or CB, with Brabant.

All three nations had relations between -41 and -76 with me prior to the peace. Despite not knowing what would happen, it seems incredible that all three nations would have such different end results. Why is that?

FYI, Flanders had its own dynasty and heir, but within a month Flanders got a PU under Burgundy (now my lesser partner.) My dynasty replaced their old one. It created what we commonly see with Castile over Aragon over Naples. How could that happen?

Lastly, Brabant still has my dynasty (but a Duke is ruling). The weird thing is Brabant's heir is my heir. Exact age, states and name. Odd, no? I'm totally at a loss on how to understand this. In case it matters, a new pope had been elected 5-8 years before (I can't remember exactly), so I was likely in a 'Tier 1' state. Any ideas on what happened?
its a known bug, that might get fixed in next patch.

"Might" :rolleyes:

basically, all sorts of weird things happen if you force a union over a nation with multiple PU
 

atwix

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its a known bug, that might get fixed in next patch.

"Might" :rolleyes:

basically, all sorts of weird things happen if you force a union over a nation with multiple PU
"Enforcing a personal union will now properly transfer all subjects again" in today's patch.. WEE!
 

atwix

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wanted to share...

castille getting crazy BI.jpg


try figuring out what happened here.. its legit, but complicated.

Burgundy got a PU over France in first years. France fought independence war, and BI triggered DURING that war. Due to BI mechanic, France was forced to white peace, became a subject again, and got inherited as HRE side of BI by the player Castille.


...

Right.

think how it works is, France first inherits the french part of Burgundy, then the emperor or, as in this case, Burgundy's Royal Marriage partner, inherits all that's left, including all of Burgundy's subjects. Since the RM partner won the RNG lottery this time, the emperor had nothing to do with the inheritance. Since France was Burgundy's subject after the forced white peace, it gets lobbed under the 'all that's left' part which the RM partner inherits.
p.s: player became emperor in 1496 o_O
 
Last edited:

joos

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wanted to share...

View attachment 514693

try figuring out what happened here.. its legit, but complicated.

Burgundy got a PU over France in first years. France fought independence war, and BI triggered DURING that war. Due to BI mechanic, France was forced to white peace, became a subject again, and got inherited as HRE side of BI by the player Castille.

...

Right.

p.s: player became emperor in 1496 o_O
This is so funny! I think player used up all their EU4 luck in that one game.

But when the BI fired, shouldn't France have become junior partner under Castille? Why did they get treated as HRE lands? What mechanic are you referring to?
 

PhoenixG

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This is so funny! I think player used up all their EU4 luck in that one game.

But when the BI fired, shouldn't France have become junior partner under Castille? Why did they get treated as HRE lands? What mechanic are you referring to?
It's BI specialty. All burgundy's subjects get integrated before it's get split up. The reason he also get the HRE land is because he was the emperor at that moment.

Still it's a mystery for me how Burgundy got the PU in the first place. The only thing I can think of is Provence got the PU, but Burgundy contested it and won.
 

joos

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It's BI specialty. All burgundy's subjects get integrated before it's get split up. The reason he also get the HRE land is because he was the emperor at that moment.

Still it's a mystery for me how Burgundy got the PU in the first place. The only thing I can think of is Provence got the PU, but Burgundy contested it and won.
I agree partly, but player became Emperor only in 1496. Screenshot is from earlier. I understand how Castille got the low countries and HRE part of Burgundy. But @atwix seemed to suggest that France was treated like HRE lands. I am guessing, as you said, France got integrated into Burgundy, so there was no nation called France to claim the French part of Burgundy.
 

John Fist

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This is so funny! I think player used up all their EU4 luck in that one game.

But when the BI fired, shouldn't France have become junior partner under Castille? Why did they get treated as HRE lands? What mechanic are you referring to?
I think how it works is, France first inherits the french part of Burgundy, then the emperor or, as in this case, Burgundy's Royal Marriage partner, inherits all that's left, including all of Burgundy's subjects. Since the RM partner won the RNG lottery this time, the emperor had nothing to do with the inheritance. Since France was Burgundy's subject after the forced white peace, it gets lobbed under the 'all that's left' part which the RM partner inherits.
 
Last edited:

PhoenixG

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I agree partly, but player became Emperor only in 1496. Screenshot is from earlier. I understand how Castille got the low countries and HRE part of Burgundy. But @atwix seemed to suggest that France was treated like HRE lands. I am guessing, as you said, France got integrated into Burgundy, so there was no nation called France to claim the French part of Burgundy.
Well he just quoted the one who did it. He might word it bit badly.
 

Badesumofu

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France would get the French parts of Burgundy and then white peace as part of the event. That would cause France to become a PU again. Then Burgundy inherits all its PUs, and then whomever was selected to get the HRE portion gets whatever is left. The event assumes that whatever France doesn’t get is the ‘HRE portion’ and that that is whatever is left after France gets the French portion.

It’s crazy, but that’s exactly what the BI would do in that set of circumstances.
 

klingonadmiral

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It's BI specialty. All burgundy's subjects get integrated before it's get split up. The reason he also get the HRE land is because he was the emperor at that moment.

Still it's a mystery for me how Burgundy got the PU in the first place. The only thing I can think of is Provence got the PU, but Burgundy contested it and won.
From my recent France runs, there is a very decent possibility that France and Burgundy don't start hostile to one another. If they both rival England, even the AIs might want to ally each other. RMs happen, Valois fail to reproduce, Burgundy gets the PU.
 

PhoenixG

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From my recent France runs, there is a very decent possibility that France and Burgundy don't start hostile to one another. If they both rival England, even the AIs might want to ally each other. RMs happen, Valois fail to reproduce, Burgundy gets the PU.
Shouldn't France get Burgundy's dynasty first before he can pu him?
 

klingonadmiral

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Shouldn't France get Burgundy's dynasty first before he can pu him?
No.

From the OP

b) every other cases (RM & no dynasty / No RM & dynasty / RM & dynasty):
- no valid Contestants exist: PU
- valid Contestant exists -> SW between Successor and Contestant
"Junior" is the junior partner of your future PU
"Successor" is the strongest of: Junior's dynasty members and Junior's RM partners
"Contestant" is the strongest of: Junior's dynasty members and Junior's RM partners and Junior's rivals
If Provence (through same dynasty) and Burgundy (through RM) both contest for the French throne, Burgundy will be the defender in the impending war as they are a heck of a lot stronger than Provence. The contestant will be France's strongest eligible rival, which should be England and would explain why Calais is no longer English while Normandy and Gascony still are. England challenges, gets beaten up once setting foot on the continent and has to cede Calais to Bugundy.
 

Badesumofu

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Even without considering Provence, sometimes dying heirless result in an instant PU without a shared dynasty. It depends which tier the heirless nation is in when its ruler dies.

Burgundy contesting a Provence PU is probably the more likely explanation, though.
 

Badesumofu

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20191004134831_1.jpg


Well now - a reminder of what can happen under the correct circumstances. I had been just about to attack Burgundy to conquer permanent claims from them while my Last Joust general was still around (6-4-6-4) and I noticed that Burgundy's heir had died. So instead of attacking, I married them instead hoping to get a dynasty swap. Instead I got this. That Burgundy has 14 provinces making it eligible to be inherited in Tier 1. It also has 2 PUs of its own meaning the only way to PU this Burgundy would be a Claim Throne war.

66 year old ruler. Died within a couple of years and I got this:

20191004140003_1.jpg


14 premium provinces with no AE, no cost to core, no unlawful territory. I quickly ate Flanders who got free as a result before they got any allies as well. Bargain. Just shows that it pays to remain vigilant and mindful of all the possibilities!
 

atwix

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View attachment 516648

Well now - a reminder of what can happen under the correct circumstances. I had been just about to attack Burgundy to conquer permanent claims from them while my Last Joust general was still around (6-4-6-4) and I noticed that Burgundy's heir had died. So instead of attacking, I married them instead hoping to get a dynasty swap. Instead I got this. That Burgundy has 14 provinces making it eligible to be inherited in Tier 1. It also has 2 PUs of its own meaning the only way to PU this Burgundy would be a Claim Throne war.

66 year old ruler. Died within a couple of years and I got this:

View attachment 516649

14 premium provinces with no AE, no cost to core, no unlawful territory. I quickly ate Flanders who got free as a result before they got any allies as well. Bargain. Just shows that it pays to remain vigilant and mindful of all the possibilities!
Nice.. that is rare case of tier indeed
 

GChapman

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In some (rare) cases a vassal with your dynasty will be inherent at their monarch death. How does this works?