guide to royal marriages, personal unions and claim throne.

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Badesumofu

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It's not really clear for me. I have currently 15% chances and 22% chances for inheriting Denmark and Sweden. But can this still happen if it's written in the diplo box of my PUs that "The PU will continue"? Is it quite random at the death of the emperor or can you see in the box that you will inherit them if it's gonna happen? Thanks
@atwix

That 'PU will continue' is telling you that you won't lose the PU due to negative relations, it doesn't mean you won't inherit the country.

As to your chance to inherit your PUs, you can increase that by increasing your dip rep. The higher that percentage chance, the more likely you are to inherit that PU when your ruler dies. It is random in the sense that the game is storing a value that was rolled when your ruler came to power (which you can't see) and when your ruler dies it will check that value against the chance that you inherit your PUs. What that means is that you will most likely inherit both or neither. There is a 7% chance you get the 22% inherit but not the 15% inherit. If you make a point of maxing your dip rep through the game, and especially ensuring that it is as high as possible on ruler death (ie no OE or other maluses to dip rep) you will have a very, very good chance to inherit those PUs by the end of the game.
 

atwix

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It's not really clear for me. I have currently 15% chances and 22% chances for inheriting Denmark and Sweden. But can this still happen if it's written in the diplo box of my PUs that "The PU will continue"? Is it quite random at the death of the emperor or can you see in the box that you will inherit them if it's gonna happen? Thanks

the roll for inheriting is likely 'seed saved' (like event outcomes) at start of ruler period, and it MIGHT get re-rolled each few decades. that is untested though.

if the diplomacy window says 'you will inherit them' for both, you can ABDICATE and get 'm inherited right after.

So, if you get new ruler, check what the diplo window says. If it says inherit all, try to kill/abdicate your ruler asap.

The inheritance roll might get re-rolled after few decades, but I have never seen it happen in the period between ruler taking throne, and the 20 years it then takes to be able to abdicate. Someone (was it in this thread?) gave an example that made me assume its 30 years or longer until it gets re-rolled.

But anyhow, check what diplomacy window says for PU subjects. If t says 'inherit' you're golden.
 

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I have never focused on the game of thrones aspect of eu4. Any PUs i got had been pure luck. However when I started my first Castile campaign i thought to give it a try. Wow did the tips in this thread help. Here's what I ended up with.....

Navarra - force pu
Aragon and Naples - Iberian wedding
Austria - France lost a succession war
Ferrara - force pu
Bohemia - lucky no heir inheritance
Cleves - force pu
Nassau - lucky no heir inheritance
Hungary - force pu
Augsberg - force pu
Also add in 4-5 claim throne cbs that I let expire without pursuing; Bavaria, Burgundy, etc...

Scouring European diplomacy for weakness turned out a lot more fun and profitable than the usual blob sprawl I do. At times I was pulling 0 dip mana after paying for integrations and extra diplo relations. Going to do this more often. Thanks op and advice contributers.
 
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Badesumofu

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Yep, compared to admin efficiency 0 conquest, hunting for PUs is vastly more efficient. If you can build up to 10+ dip rep you'll be able to inherit most medium size PUs for free in enough time. Or you can wait for admin efficiency plus Influence and Influence-admin policy to integrate them for about 22% of original cost. Having lots of PUs is easy to maintain because they are very loyal and only count their own strength against yours. They are vastly better than vassals for feeding up as well.

Quick advice: get Diplomatic ideas early to be able to make and break RMs at will. Great for fishing. Get Influence after in order to make inheriting and integrating easier. I really miss this aspect of the game when I play outside of Europe.

Have fun.
 

pianogurra

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Hi guys!
What are your thoughts about idea groups and policies for Game of Thrones campaigns? Do you focus to get diplomatic and and for instance innovative for +1 diplomatic reputation to inherit nations easier?
 

Gratak

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Hi guys!
What are your thoughts about idea groups and policies for Game of Thrones campaigns? Do you focus to get diplomatic and and for instance innovative for +1 diplomatic reputation to inherit nations easier?
Diplomatic is certainly useful to break royal marriages for free. I wouldn't take innovative for the policy. Influence is certainly useful for additional 2 diplo-rep (and easier integration if inheritance fails)
 

Badesumofu

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Hi guys!
What are your thoughts about idea groups and policies for Game of Thrones campaigns? Do you focus to get diplomatic and and for instance innovative for +1 diplomatic reputation to inherit nations easier?

Diplomatic is a good early group to get. It gives you an extra diplomat, an extra relations slot, and the ability to break off RMs without the stab hit. These are all brilliant bonuses for acquiring PUs. It also gives some other really nice things like dip rep which you will need later on to inherit/integrate, and improve relations which just all around excellent. Subsequently, you will want Influence and Admin. Influence gives more dip rep and crucially 25% discount on integration costs. Admin gives you one of the best ideas in the entire game which is Adaptability - 25% reduced coring cost (and coring time, a frequently undervalued aspect) and more importantly for PUs it has a 20% integration discount policy with Influence which totals to a 45% discount. The faster coring also means you suffer the effects of OE for less time and one of the effects of OE is a malus to dip rep. If possible Plutocratic ideas will also give you a policy for a further 10% discount but you won't have access to those unless you started as a Republic. If you can get it, then you end up at 18% integration cost with full admin efficiency which is really quite good if you PUed a coloniser and need to integrate them.

One thing I will say, though, people often agonise about the integration process but it's often better to keep a big PU as a subject. Ask yourself, can you actually make enough states to really benefit from integrating them? Does the subject have some strong military ideas that you are benefiting from? Is it likely that if you wait a bit a play it right that you could inherit them for free? Once you get to the absurdly high levels of dip rep attainable in the mid-late game it becomes possible to inherit even a fairly large subject, and when you inherit the provinces don't get slapped with 60% local autonomy.

Others to think about are Humanist which is just generally an amazing idea group for its ability to prevent revolts but also grants two extra promoted cultures which will come in pretty handy post-integration/inheritance if you want to get the most out of the land. You'll also want to consider some of the stronger military groups if you're planning to force PU a strong nation. I really like offensive for this - it gives a nice balance of quality and quantity and remains relevant and powerful throughout the entire game. Offensive combined with a strong set of NIs (like France who is one of the best nations for a PU game) should give you all you need get it done militarily. That 20% siege ability is seriously, seriously good. Especially now that the AI is so fond of counter-sieging and wars can sometimes come down to a siege race. Combine with Innovative once you can squeeze that in for an OP policy (1 siege pip, 10%siege ability) and the very useful (and somewhat hard to come by) -0.05 monthly WE.

Which reminds me - I sometimes like to take Defender of the Faith in order to get defensive CTAs for nations that I want to protect because I plan to PU them in the future. It allows you to protect them without incurring a pesky truce like an alliance or guarantee will cause. It also grants a set of bonuses that are more than worth the cost.

The TLDR answer is: Diplomatic, Administrative, Influence (probably in that order).
 

atwix

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Diplomatic is a good early group to get. It gives you an extra diplomat, an extra relations slot, and the ability to break off RMs without the stab hit. These are all brilliant bonuses for acquiring PUs. It also gives some other really nice things like dip rep which you will need later on to inherit/integrate, and improve relations which just all around excellent. Subsequently, you will want Influence and Admin. Influence gives more dip rep and crucially 25% discount on integration costs. Admin gives you one of the best ideas in the entire game which is Adaptability - 25% reduced coring cost (and coring time, a frequently undervalued aspect) and more importantly for PUs it has a 20% integration discount policy with Influence which totals to a 45% discount. The faster coring also means you suffer the effects of OE for less time and one of the effects of OE is a malus to dip rep. If possible Plutocratic ideas will also give you a policy for a further 10% discount but you won't have access to those unless you started as a Republic. If you can get it, then you end up at 18% integration cost with full admin efficiency which is really quite good if you PUed a coloniser and need to integrate them.

One thing I will say, though, people often agonise about the integration process but it's often better to keep a big PU as a subject. Ask yourself, can you actually make enough states to really benefit from integrating them? Does the subject have some strong military ideas that you are benefiting from? Is it likely that if you wait a bit a play it right that you could inherit them for free? Once you get to the absurdly high levels of dip rep attainable in the mid-late game it becomes possible to inherit even a fairly large subject, and when you inherit the provinces don't get slapped with 60% local autonomy.

Others to think about are Humanist which is just generally an amazing idea group for its ability to prevent revolts but also grants two extra promoted cultures which will come in pretty handy post-integration/inheritance if you want to get the most out of the land. You'll also want to consider some of the stronger military groups if you're planning to force PU a strong nation. I really like offensive for this - it gives a nice balance of quality and quantity and remains relevant and powerful throughout the entire game. Offensive combined with a strong set of NIs (like France who is one of the best nations for a PU game) should give you all you need get it done militarily. That 20% siege ability is seriously, seriously good. Especially now that the AI is so fond of counter-sieging and wars can sometimes come down to a siege race. Combine with Innovative once you can squeeze that in for an OP policy (1 siege pip, 10%siege ability) and the very useful (and somewhat hard to come by) -0.05 monthly WE.

Which reminds me - I sometimes like to take Defender of the Faith in order to get defensive CTAs for nations that I want to protect because I plan to PU them in the future. It allows you to protect them without incurring a pesky truce like an alliance or guarantee will cause. It also grants a set of bonuses that are more than worth the cost.

The TLDR answer is: Diplomatic, Administrative, Influence (probably in that order).

wow, I hardly have to answer anything here anymore :)

Couldn't have said it any better I think. @Badesumofu
 

bbqftw

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Any idea why Hungary is slated to get Valois instead of my dynasty? I have almost 5k dev and France has 1200.

k8HwYZa.png


This game has been a pretty nice success for ROTW game of thrones adventures. This time we kept a 'native' house instead of stealing a European dynasty. Though Valois is looking rather tasty right now...

DOW'd dynasty-spread Russia out of regency:

9sQoYUC.png


130 dev of tasty HRE cores from Palatinate, so not a bad pickup for a quick marry when I noticed they are in tier 1 with no heir and age 63 king.

jsd32wS.png
 
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atwix

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Any idea why Hungary is slated to get Valois instead of my dynasty? I have almost 5k dev and France has 1200.

heh, no clue.

Could you check in institution window if your effective development is higher then 1200 from France? If you got high autonomy everywhere..

Still though..

weird.

You aren't involved in the wars hungary is doing right? fighting against a nation who has rm with you will prevent dynasty spread for as long as the war lasts.

but seems not.
 

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I made some charts that encapsulate the basic concepts of atwix' guide while I was trying to wrap my brain around the guide. I'll share them here if anyone else finds them interesting.

http://imgur.com/a/Yet9C

(Let me know, if there are mistakes).

i finally remembered (sorry!) i had to look at this.

some remarks:

1. you can check military rating of all nations in ledger in score section. i confirmed its military rating that is determining factor in deciding attacker in succession war live while streaming. i was happy. you can check ledger to see who will be attacker in a ledger if target heirless nation is at war, only to grin you are right when their war ends. but this is hardly relevant ;) its still better to just check diplomacy window of heirless nation from time to time, to predict whether or not attacker is powerful enough to attack, or if e is likely to give you free PU by backing down. point being: its good to know what to do to increase your military rating, to be able to contest more unions. going prussia level of military as monarchy will allow you to contest anything if you do key royal marriages. maybe that is worth adding.

2. agressive claimant can be rivals of target nation or defensive claimant, rm partners of target nation or defensive claimant, or same dynasty nations then target. think you forgot one RM option there.

all in all, nice work @alyoso
 

atwix

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It's not really clear for me. I have currently 15% chances and 22% chances for inheriting Denmark and Sweden. But can this still happen if it's written in the diplo box of my PUs that "The PU will continue"? Is it quite random at the death of the emperor or can you see in the box that you will inherit them if it's gonna happen? Thanks
@atwix

seems i missed this post completely, sorry :(

if the box says continue, you will not inherit under current circumstances. however, it seems the inheritance roll does get re-rolled each few decades for your monarch, giving you a new chance of inheriting them.

if the window says 'you will inherit PU subject' then abdicate, and you will inherit.

if you got good heir, then abdicate and you get NEW inheritance roll also.
 

hermithill

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(Sorry, if you have already mentioned it)
In my current game, both Austria and Wallachia laid a claim on the throne of Poland - It's quite uncommon, so I was wondering: what will happen if the heirless King of poland dies? Will Wallachia be the contestant (in case of succession war), or will the usual rules apply?
 

atwix

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(Sorry, if you have already mentioned it)
In my current game, both Austria and Wallachia laid a claim on the throne of Poland - It's quite uncommon, so I was wondering: what will happen if the heirless King of poland dies? Will Wallachia be the contestant (in case of succession war), or will the usual rules apply?

can't you check what it says in diplomacy window?

are you saying austria and wallachia share dynasty with poland, or wallachia was rigged to get succession war over Poland, and then Austria claimed thair throne?

you gonna have to be more specific :)

if the three nations share dynasty and two nations claimed poland throne, the one with highest development might win, or some other stuff like highest military rating/prestige or some other wonky stuff.

worth console testing that scenario ;)
 

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Sorry I was not at home, and now it's too late (I forgot to check and as I'm in ironman I don't have the save anymore :( - Poland has an heir). The situation was the following: Austria, Poland and Wallachia have an Habsburg (same dynasty then) and both Austria and Wallachia laid a claim. I assume that Austria would have the PU (Austria has a much higher dev than Wallachia), but I wanted to know whether the contestant would have been chosen as usual or would have been Wallachia being also a claimant. Should have check :oops:.
 

atwix

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Sorry I was not at home, and now it's too late (I forgot to check and as I'm in ironman I don't have the save anymore :( - Poland has an heir). The situation was the following: Austria, Poland and Wallachia have an Habsburg (same dynasty then) and both Austria and Wallachia laid a claim. I assume that Austria would have the PU (Austria has a much higher dev than Wallachia), but I wanted to know whether the contestant would have been chosen as usual or would have been Wallachia being also a claimant. Should have check :oops:.

its worth console testing, as I'm not sure who will get union if two same dynasty nations claim throne. I would assume the biggest development one, but it might also be something different.

in this case, if wallachia OR austria has big rival who will contest succession, there might be succession war even though they claimed the throne.

complex case, this.
 

bbqftw

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Besides holding a PU yourself, is there a way to completely immunize yourself from PU upon heirless monarch death? For example, some development advantage over the next dynasty sharing member?

It seems like having same dynasty will always put you at succession war or PU.
 

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Besides holding a PU yourself, is there a way to completely immunize yourself from PU upon heirless monarch death? For example, some development advantage over the next dynasty sharing member?

It seems like having same dynasty will always put you at succession war or PU.

Be at war. No amount of development differential will help. If you're at war you can't fall into PU on monarch death.
 

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Besides holding a PU yourself, is there a way to completely immunize yourself from PU upon heirless monarch death? For example, some development advantage over the next dynasty sharing member?

It seems like having same dynasty will always put you at succession war or PU.

i never quite tested it after common sense.

before common sense same dynasty nations needed 50% more base tax then other dynasty members to get automatic PU over them on same dynasty heirless ruler death.

likely development treshold now.

but as you say, succession war between dynasty members is the usual outcome. aka, threesame dynasty nations, and two fight over the right to govern the third.

succession war is even possible if two nations share dynasty and one dies heirless. then normal rules apply.

theres exception situations where two dynasty nations exist, and succession war erupts between RM partner and another nations, skipping same dynasty right on throne.

usually that is case if the two same dynasty nations are small.

BUT, last time i checked, claiming their throne can OVERRULE the defensive succession war claim of the biggest RM partner of your same dynasty partner.

hope that explains it a little :p