guide to royal marriages, personal unions and claim throne.

[GChapman]

can you confirm that? I am not person to look through files to make a point, but i thought commonwealth forming makes you a monarchy.

According eu4wiki.com the government does not change.
There are some events around 1600 which ends the elective monarchy.

 

[atwix]

ok. But is it possible to form commonwealth before 1600 easily? I literally got no clue, i never play poland or lithuania. A commonwealth with elective monarchy just sounds... weird to me. I have never seen it in ai or player screenshots.

 

[GChapman]

ok. But is it possible to form commonwealth before 1600 easily? I literally got no clue, i never play poland or lithuania. A commonwealth with elective monarchy just sounds... weird to me. I have never seen it in ai or player screenshots.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/The_Commonwealth

As Poland: Very easy. Get a PU over Lithuania, integrate Mazovia and get ADM 10 and almost all requirements are already done. Only getting Danzig is maybe a problem. But mostly the start with the mission which give them a claim to Danzig and the go at war with the teutonic order and get these province. Maybe they need another province of the teutonic order, but i remember all other required provinces are already of poland (or of vassal Mazovia). So basicly: Get the PU over Lithuania, integrate Mazovia and go at war with the teutonnic order and wait until adm tech 10.

As Lithuania: Almost impossible. You have to PU'd Poland before they got there elective monarchy. They most likely gets your dynasty. When the get a ruler, you can claim throne, but within a month, Poland government change to Elective monarchy, so you can't declare the war. You must be really really really lucky if you do can declare the war.

 

[bbqftw]

Something I noticed - I'm sure you already know this Atwix, but it doesn't seem to be mentioned in your guide.

Occasionally, an heir can die while in regency. This leads to an Interregnum (you'll see this on the government screen for the target country), which will generally lead to a noble from another dynasty being placed on the throne (tough I've seen an interregnum where Austria ended up with a Habsburg...though I recall Austria does get Habsburg heirs via event if they aren't the ruling dynasty). Anyways, this is prime dynasty spreading opportunity, and what's even better is that you don't even have to anticipate the heir death - you can RM them during the interregnum and get your dynasty installed.

Of course, you have to know that there's an interregnum. I believe that the only way an heir can die in regency is via event - thus if you have your popups set correctly you should know exactly when this happens.

result in my case (those Skanderbeg genes!). England was married to Cornwall only at the time of heir death - RM during interregnum allowed dynasty spread:

They got immediate heir unfortunately, so cannot force PU immediately, but I am ready with boats.

 

[dullum]

Forming the Commonwealth doesn't make you a normal monarchy, but they must have gotten some event or something, so they retained their elected Habsburg king, and no heir. They even got an heir during the PU war, but I still got it 8)

 

[atwix]

Something I noticed - I'm sure you already know this Atwix, but it doesn't seem to be mentioned in your guide.

Occasionally, an heir can die while in regency. This leads to an Interregnum (you'll see this on the government screen for the target country), which will generally lead to a noble from another dynasty being placed on the throne (tough I've seen an interregnum where Austria ended up with a Habsburg...though I recall Austria does get Habsburg heirs via event if they aren't the ruling dynasty). Anyways, this is prime dynasty spreading opportunity, and what's even better is that you don't even have to anticipate the heir death - you can RM them during the interregnum and get your dynasty installed.

Of course, you have to know that there's an interregnum. I believe that the only way an heir can die in regency is via event - thus if you have your popups set correctly you should know exactly when this happens.

result in my case (those Skanderbeg genes!). England was married to Cornwall only at the time of heir death - RM during interregnum allowed dynasty spread:

They got immediate heir unfortunately, so cannot force PU immediately, but I am ready with boats.

its indeed not in the guide, cause this barely happens. Heirs that die in regency can only happen by event (afaik), and that event is really rare.

But it can happen. I have never seen an interegnum apart from the ones at 1444 start.

Also, an RM with interegnum nation won't mean you deliver new king. If you do it wih bohemia at 1444 start, its seems totally random what dynasty delivers new king. And even then they can get event that removes that king and puts bohemian noble on throne again.

I'm not sure if i should add is as option G for successions really. I got no clue about how interegnum exactly works and if theres formulae involved to assign what dynasty gives new king when they come out of interegnum. Normally there spawns an immediate NEW heir, i think the only situation where an interegnum can happen is a young regency heir of a really old king that dies by event, and since king is old there is chance he has no (leftover) heirs. I for sure never saw it happen.

Something for console testers i guess.

Also, has anyone ever seen an heir in regency die, without event? And can you claim throne of a country in interegnum, if you got RM?

 

[atwix]

well, some old thread on this forum said that you can claim throne with a RM done, if they are in interegnum. Doubt you would get force PU CB doing this though. Maybe it makes it so that new king will always be of your dynasty?

Can't test it now unfortunatly

My best guess on interegnum mechanics:

if a country is in an interregnum (their heir dies during a regency council) then the country with the highest prestige they are married to are pretty much guaranteed to get their dynasty member on the throne. Also if a country doesn't have an heir for a fair amount of time (usually 8-10 years) and you are married to them the event "Successful marriage policy" can fire, which instantly gives them an heir of your dynasty.

Not sure if its prestige that is trigger. Can be totally random too, and fixed if you claim throne.

Something for console testers to figure out, i guess.

 

[onrAArno]

First of all thanks for your guide, I'm finally starting to understand the PU mechanics now because of it.

As with the interregnum, in my experience it works the same as when there is no heir, the country with the most basetax gets its dynasty on the throne. With the exception that a new heir can't be born.

E.g. with bohemia at start: me (as bavaria) married them, and it said a wittelsbach would get the throne. Then lithuania married them and it said that their dynasty would get the throne. Poland got the union over lithuania and therefore it switched back to me (since I had the highest basetax of their royal marriage partners except for lithuania).

After my dynasty got their throne I could claim it and now I have them in a union. Later I could do the same with saxony (also in an interregnum).

 

[atwix]

First of all thanks for your guide, I'm finally starting to understand the PU mechanics now because of it.

As with the interregnum, in my experience it works the same as when there is no heir, the country with the most basetax gets its dynasty on the throne. With the exception that a new heir can't be born.

E.g. with bohemia at start: me (as bavaria) married them, and it said a wittelsbach would get the throne. Then lithuania married them and it said that their dynasty would get the throne. Poland got the union over lithuania and therefore it switched back to me (since I had the highest basetax of their royal marriage partners except for lithuania).

After my dynasty got their throne I could claim it and now I have them in a union. Later I could do the same with saxony (also in an interregnum).

heh, can you see who delivers heir when nation is in interegnum?

And ok, then it is basetax i guess for interegnum as well.

Now someone has to try what happens if you claim throne during interegnum, if you are NOT highest base tax rm partner. Does it switch to you? It might work exactly as other situations, or it might have no effect whatsoever.

I'll add the interegnum as possible succession situation in guide, cause it seems it happens more then i thought Maybe i never noticed it in small nations, cause i don't look at all...

OPTION G: A dynasty in a nation has died out; this can happen if an heir in regency dies by event. The nation will go in interregnum.

This seems to work like option A. If you do RM with a nation in interregnum, and if you are highest total base tax partner of all RM partners, then you deliver the noble that becomes new king after a few years. You get a free dynasty spread then. Once the nation gets a king of your dynasty, you are in option C with that nation.
Prepare for force PU war: when your noble takes throne, claim the throne, and do force PU war..

Gonna need some input what exactly claiming throne does DURING the interregnum.

Thanks to BBQFTW to mention i forgot this seventh possible succession status.

I'll add it to wiki too.

 

[onrAArno]

heh, can you see who delivers heir when nation is in interegnum?

When you hover over a nations ruler you can see the succesions of the nations they have royal marriages with, there you can see who delivers the heir.

 

[dullum]

Thats what, portugal, spain and commonwealth now as PU subject for your austria? Or are there more already?

Just them. I re-rivalled England instead of France (Bohemia was also option for some reason), so I couldn't marry England now. Doesn't matter, though, I'll get them later. Maybe I'll unrival Russia and get them someday?

I'm integrating Cornwall (south cost of England, two breton and two French provinces) because of the extra cost, and then I'm not integrating anyone until I have full Administrative ideas, + the policy. I accidentally inherited Portugal on monarch death, so that's a lot of boats to get my head around, but also a lot more money! I hope Castille get so big that I can have them colonise for me. Maybe I should feed them Africa somehow (but how?)...

 

[bbqftw]

its indeed not in the guide, cause this barely happens. Heirs that die in regency can only happen by event (afaik), and that event is really rare.

But it can happen. I have never seen an interegnum apart from the ones at 1444 start.

I've seen at least 3 in just my Albania campaign (Austria, Scotland, England), and have seen it in other campaigns as well. I probably got lucky though.

Anyways, regarding relative rarity - I think the only event that can lead to interregnum is this one, with MTTH 2400 months. 200 years + around 2/3 chance of heir death may seem like a lot but AI tends to end up in regency a lot more than player (I suspect due to AI always making ruler a general even when heir is young).

country_event = {
id = 9456
title = "EVTNAME9456"
desc = "EVTDESC9456"
picture = PLAGUE_eventPicture

trigger = {
has_heir = yes
government = monarchy
is_lesser_in_union = no
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 2400
}
option = {
name = "EVTOPTA9456"
add_years_of_income = -0.2
random_list = {
50 = { kill_heir = yes}
50 = { add_legitimacy = 5}
}
}

option = {
name = "EVTOPTB9456"
random_list = {
75 = { kill_heir = yes}
25 = { add_legitimacy = 30}
}

}
}

 

[atwix]

Just them. I re-rivalled England instead of France (Bohemia was also option for some reason), so I couldn't marry England now. Doesn't matter, though, I'll get them later. Maybe I'll unrival Russia and get them someday?

I'm integrating Cornwall (south cost of England, two breton and two French provinces) because of the extra cost, and then I'm not integrating anyone until I have full Administrative ideas, + the policy. I accidentally inherited Portugal on monarch death, so that's a lot of boats to get my head around, but also a lot more money! I hope Castille get so big that I can have them colonise for me. Maybe I should feed them Africa somehow (but how?)...

inheriting portugal huh... Nice. I have seen castille inheriting aragon and naples on same day.

Castille will colonise, rest assured. But you gotta integrate them or their CN won't be yours. Once castille has CN, you can use the exploration cb of castille to feed all indian tribes to their CN.

feed castille africa? easy. Do they have claims there still? declare war and transfer occupation of the claimed province to castille.

If they don't have claim, then conquer any North African province somehow, on the border of 2-3 nations. Make a claim to another port provinceof another country, and declare conquest war for that province. Once the province is occupied, you can transfer occupation to ANYONE in the war, including your subjects and allies. This way castille or any subject can get foothold in africa.
This only works in conquest war. And its WAD, no bug.


Using this method, i fed entire africa to portugal and england (and little bit to castille), in my recent foix run.

 

[Mizrah]

I read your posts both in this thread and both WC ones, and somewhere (cant really be bothered to search for a quote though xD i believe it was the Savoy run) you said that if you force PU over a nation that already has some other nation under PU, then you'll get both nations as PU puppets. In my current Byz game, i forced a PU over Great Britain who had Norway under PU: i got GB, but not Norway - they became an independent nation with the greek dynasty on the throne. I find it possible that the union between GB and Norway broke during the war (i did beat GB for a lot of prestige i guess, and their king died during the war as well) which i had not noticed - but then Norway would get a king of their own dynasty, wouldnt they?

 

[bbqftw]

any 'peaceful' breaking of the PU (via low relations or prestige) results in the minor getting a new king of the same dynasty.

If the minor declares an independence war they will get a new dynasty.

 

[atwix]

any 'peaceful' breaking of the PU (via low relations or prestige) results in the minor getting a new king of the same dynasty.

If the minor declares an independence war they will get a new dynasty.

starting to make school.. What bbqftw said.

 

[KrupPato]

One question, as the Dutch Republic I receive the request to challenge the union between Spain and Naples. I have not accept because occupied by other war, but what would have happened if I had contested and won? Naples would become my PU even if I am a republic?

 

[atwix]

One question, as the Dutch Republic I receive the request to challenge the union between Spain and Naples. I have not accept because occupied by other war, but what would have happened if I had contested and won? Naples would become my PU even if I am a republic?

hmm, so dutch republic is eglible to agressively contest in succession wars? Thats goo to know.

And i guess, yes, dutch republc can have PU subjects.

 

[1nf3ct3d]

I have a RM with Aragon as Savoy, does a trastamara succed to the throne because castile shares dynasty and has more base tax than me or is it because aragon is bigger than i am (they have nearly double my basetax atm)

 

[bbqftw]

Look at what you've made me become!

Here I am, going to do a standard exodus re-reconquista run, but now I feel compelled to play the PU gam...Nasrids will rule Europe.

Let's see where this takes us