Guide To get 450 factories before Barbarossa

[charlottep51]

I have nothing against any language, but I believe if you want to post guide on international forum - you better make screenshots from ENG localization

When I first wrote it, I sent it to the local language community
Then I forgot to change languages

So I went back to the English version and took a screenshot of the English Focus Tree

Those already screenshots in non english,as because the screen is full of things that everyone knows
(civil factory Icon, road Icon, location of number of civil factories UI)
So I gave up on replay another time for screenshots

 

[aletoledo]

Since the spy agency is a fixed cost, I don't see the benefit of doing it in '36. Sure build it for eliminating Trotsky, but otherwise you would be needlessly hampering yourself. Might not be a huge problem, but again what are you really getting from it in '36?

 

[charlottep51]

Did the 5% CG cost reduction in the latest beta make the Soviets too strong?

(I don't play PVP, that's what I've heard.They are the most skilled players)
Without -5% consumer goods, the Soviet was considered too weak to compete with Germany at all


With-5% consumer goods, I don't know it's OK , too strong , or still weak

 

[charlottep51]

Since the spy agency is a fixed cost, I don't see the benefit of doing it in '36. Sure build it for eliminating Trotsky, but otherwise you would be needlessly hampering yourself. Might not be a huge problem, but again what are you really getting from it in '36?

This is because some local players asked me to include some of the civil industrial cost of spy system
Because they want to play decipher code Or something else (such as a cooperative government)
Then in 1936, because the construction technology was relatively low, players wasted less on building spy systems

You can completely ignore it and ignore this spy system (I forgot to say it in it)

 

[ComradeKroo]

Sov Spy in NSB get a big buff.
With early +1 Spy from NKVD, you can have 4 spies in 1937 (2 from Agency, 1 from Advisor, and 1 from NKVD focus). Pay some early CIV for 5 Agency upgrades, If you are lucky enough, you can constantly steal Techs from Germany (best target). With 2 or 3 faster 3 years buff from stealing, you can have Industry tech IV or V in 1940-41, which is profit.
Later spies help you suppress resistance, and get intel advantage.

 

[CantGetNoSleep]

Nice build - agree with most of it (note you forgot to say when to do the bloc Right and Trotskyist).

Here's a fun alternative- 255 mils, 227 civs but 20 net traded away as I built an air force that Dwarfs the Axis. But most important is look at my production & cap:

Ha yes, the colour is a bit off, there's a reason:

By bypassing all the click-monkey paranoia stuff, I've also done a fair bit more of the removing the army debuffs and I've had 5 research slots since 1939. It's not, in real life, better - Stalin's buffs are vastly better than any of the opposition. But it was fun.

 

[CantGetNoSleep]

(I don't play PVP, that's what I've heard.They are the most skilled players)
Without -5% consumer goods, the Soviet was considered too weak to compete with Germany at all


With-5% consumer goods, I don't know it's OK , too strong , or still weak

Yeah, the only way to play Soviet with 10% debuffs was roach (Mass assault with huge air force, spamming guerilla tactics) and pray the Allies do a good d-day. There was just no way in hell to push.

Beta is played here and there but i've not seen a consensus - it's still being tested. The issue is that the air buff (even though it's now less than it was) / AA nerf mean doing a "no-air" soviet, which was meta, is no longer possible. That's cool as it broadens the play, BUT... it's still a a struggle for the Soviets to do air AND tanks. They're faced with he entire Axis, and often Italy will have ~100 mils on planes, Germany will have 80+ and Romania will have 20+ - so it's 200+ mils on planes, vs Soviet building (licensed from UK) fighter 3s (-40% debuff whilst Italy will produce its own). So even with the buffs, it's hard to contest the air, let alone build tanks... But at least now there's a chance.

 

[sudpud]

Yeah, the only way to play Soviet with 10% debuffs was roach (Mass assault with huge air force, spamming guerilla tactics) and pray the Allies do a good d-day. There was just no way in hell to push.

Beta is played here and there but i've not seen a consensus - it's still being tested. The issue is that the air buff (even though it's now less than it was) / AA nerf mean doing a "no-air" soviet, which was meta, is no longer possible. That's cool as it broadens the play, BUT... it's still a a struggle for the Soviets to do air AND tanks. They're faced with he entire Axis, and often Italy will have ~100 mils on planes, Germany will have 80+ and Romania will have 20+ - so it's 200+ mils on planes, vs Soviet building (licensed from UK) fighter 3s (-40% debuff whilst Italy will produce its own). So even with the buffs, it's hard to contest the air, let alone build tanks... But at least now there's a chance.

Sure, but the allies should be able to occupy a large portion of the axis air force through bombing, and the axis are burning their planes in trades with the allies from late 39-40 in France, Africa, Sicily, etc. It's not quite as bad as it seems.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Yeah, the only way to play Soviet with 10% debuffs was roach (Mass assault with huge air force, spamming guerilla tactics) and pray the Allies do a good d-day. There was just no way in hell to push.

Beta is played here and there but i've not seen a consensus - it's still being tested. The issue is that the air buff (even though it's now less than it was) / AA nerf mean doing a "no-air" soviet, which was meta, is no longer possible. That's cool as it broadens the play, BUT... it's still a a struggle for the Soviets to do air AND tanks. They're faced with he entire Axis, and often Italy will have ~100 mils on planes, Germany will have 80+ and Romania will have 20+ - so it's 200+ mils on planes, vs Soviet building (licensed from UK) fighter 3s (-40% debuff whilst Italy will produce its own). So even with the buffs, it's hard to contest the air, let alone build tanks... But at least now there's a chance.

I still think that servers which ban fighter 3s are the most balanced. So much aluminum required which really hurts the allies, and not balanced at all - it pretty much requires blueprint stealing (which is also OP and banned a lot of the time) or it just massively tilts the game one way or another and forces a stale meta centered on which countries have ahead of time bonuses to use for it (Hungary, Australia).

 

[CantGetNoSleep]

I still think that servers which ban fighter 3s are the most balanced. So much aluminum required which really hurts the allies, and not balanced at all - it pretty much requires blueprint stealing (which is also OP and banned a lot of the time) or it just massively tilts the game one way or another and forces a stale meta centered on which countries have ahead of time bonuses to use for it (Hungary, Australia).

I'm afraid I don't agree. There's plenty of aluminium in Allies - US just has to click decisions a few times, and the UK has to build up infra in Guiana and, if necessary, do forced labour. And Canada and Australia can get aluminium through focus tree.

What's more, if the allies can't get fighter 3s, they get destroyed in Asia by Japan's zeros which, thanks to a better designer, will always have more agility then them.

 

[blahmaster6k]

I'm afraid I don't agree. There's plenty of aluminium in Allies - US just has to click decisions a few times, and the UK has to build up infra in Guiana and, if necessary, do forced labour. And Canada and Australia can get aluminium through focus tree.

What's more, if the allies can't get fighter 3s, they get destroyed in Asia by Japan's zeros which, thanks to a better designer, will always have more agility then them.

10% agility doesn't make a huge difference. It will give favorable trades, but not like the 2:1 or 30:1 ratios you'd see from differences in tech level - and Japan isn't the European axis, or the allies. It doesn't have the factories to win the air war of attrition against the allies if they decide to seriously contest in the Pacific. Japan game impact is a meme more often than not, since generally the game is decided by whether Germany or the USSR wins. All of the allies can put their planes on Japan during barb if they want to, and Japan won't have the numbers to keep it up. That being said, most MP is modded and not vanilla and resources get rebalanced a lot so yeah idk.

I mostly don't like it because it forces the stale meta of everyone rushing fighter 3 and minors only existing to research planes and not getting to do any fun builds. You take 2 minors per faction and make them research planes so they won't have freedom to do tanks, mech, or other interesting builds that a player might enjoy more than "research fighter 2/3 and build planes all game, maybe micro some expeditionary tanks."

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I don't find that very fun.

 

[mursolini]

Yeah, the only way to play Soviet with 10% debuffs was roach (Mass assault with huge air force, spamming guerilla tactics) and pray the Allies do a good d-day. There was just no way in hell to push.

Beta is played here and there but i've not seen a consensus - it's still being tested. The issue is that the air buff (even though it's now less than it was) / AA nerf mean doing a "no-air" soviet, which was meta, is no longer possible. That's cool as it broadens the play, BUT... it's still a a struggle for the Soviets to do air AND tanks. They're faced with he entire Axis, and often Italy will have ~100 mils on planes, Germany will have 80+ and Romania will have 20+ - so it's 200+ mils on planes, vs Soviet building (licensed from UK) fighter 3s (-40% debuff whilst Italy will produce its own). So even with the buffs, it's hard to contest the air, let alone build tanks... But at least now there's a chance.

You do get like 2*100% +2*75% research boost on top of other buffs and best non-japanese fighter designer after merging air plans, so why are planes even an issue?

Seems the only major that can't skip to fighter 3 is Germany.

 

[ComradeKroo]

You do get like 2*100% +2*75% research boost on top of other buffs and best non-japanese fighter designer after merging air plans, so why are planes even an issue?

Seems the only major that can't skip to fighter 3 is Germany.

Sov Airforce get massively debuff from start of the game, along with debuffs of politics, industry, army, navy, ... Their problem is, Sov player must choose what debuffs to solve first, usually, they choose purge (for politics), Industry, Techs and Red army (for land warfare).
As the new meta, the Red Airforce is going to be the 4th priority, after atleast the Purge, Industry and Redarmy debuffs are solved. Ofcourse, after all focus on Air is complete, Sov Airforce is formidable, but the time Barb happened, they simply dont have time to complete all focus, so their Air is just weak.

 

[jju_57]

Bottom line is this should put to rest that a human SOV player is too weak and can't compete industry wise.

 

[mursolini]

Sov Airforce get massively debuff from start of the game, along with debuffs of politics, industry, army, navy, ... Their problem is, Sov player must choose what debuffs to solve first, usually, they choose purge (for politics), Industry, Techs and Red army (for land warfare).
As the new meta, the Red Airforce is going to be the 4th priority, after atleast the Purge, Industry and Redarmy debuffs are solved. Ofcourse, after all focus on Air is complete, Sov Airforce is formidable, but the time Barb happened, they simply dont have time to complete all focus, so their Air is just weak.

Just how exactly massive? What ratio would Soviet air force compete with vs axis?
How exactly many focuses are needed to remove most critical part of penalty?

 

[TheSeraphim]

Bottom line is this should put to rest that a human SOV player is too weak and can't compete industry wise.

Ah yes, if you min-max and follow a guide YOU TOO can have the Soviets reach a functionable level.

 

[blahmaster6k]

Ah yes, if you min-max and follow a guide YOU TOO can have the Soviets reach a functionable level.

You don't have to min-max and follow a guide to have the Soviets reach a functionable level unless you're in multiplayer and the Axis is also min-maxing. Though in multiplayer no one's using a guide, they're using hundreds or thousands of hours of experience so that they know how to play the game at a (hopefully) high level already.

 

[jju_57]

Ah yes, if you min-max and follow a guide YOU TOO can have the Soviets reach a functionable level.

Or if you screw up and pick the wrong NF's then you too can complain that they are too weak.

You don't need 450 industry so you don't have to do all of these steps. But just like playing as Germany you have to make smart choices.

 

[charlottep51]

Sov Spy in NSB get a big buff.
With early +1 Spy from NKVD, you can have 4 spies in 1937 (2 from Agency, 1 from Advisor, and 1 from NKVD focus). Pay some early CIV for 5 Agency upgrades, If you are lucky enough, you can constantly steal Techs from Germany (best target). With 2 or 3 faster 3 years buff from stealing, you can have Industry tech IV or V in 1940-41, which is profit.
Later spies help you suppress resistance, and get intel advantage.

Yes.

I need to control the variables here,
Spy systems are adding more random,
So I don't use it in guide

 

[charlottep51]

Nice build - agree with most of it (note you forgot to say when to do the bloc Right and Trotskyist).

Here's a fun alternative- 255 mils, 227 civs but 20 net traded away as I built an air force that Dwarfs the Axis. But most important is look at my production & cap:

View attachment 785221

Ha yes, the colour is a bit off, there's a reason:
View attachment 785222

By bypassing all the click-monkey paranoia stuff, I've also done a fair bit more of the removing the army debuffs and I've had 5 research slots since 1939. It's not, in real life, better - Stalin's buffs are vastly better than any of the opposition. But it was fun.

This is very good


Right and Trotskyist Line:
I haven't played Right and Trotskyist yet
Then there are already some Right and Trotskyist walkthrough/guide from other community
(I haven't had time to read it yet)
So I'm not going to talk about the gameplay of Right and Trotskyist Line