• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Meneth

Crusader Kings 3 Programmer
153 Badges
Feb 9, 2011
10.056
5.378
www.paradoxwikis.com
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Sounds like it is something that wasn't intended by Paradox to happen then, as to my knowledge the AI never does it independently.
As such, I wouldn't model a playstyle around it.

As to duchies, you'd probably just be adding another step between you and the income, so the only real change would be you getting a smaller portion.
 

Pode

Lt. General
72 Badges
May 3, 2005
1.474
92
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Majesty 2
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Magicka
  • Pride of Nations
  • War of the Roses
  • Sengoku
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Dungeonland
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
They were aware of it enough to include it in the UI, when granting the title the effects are listed before you hit send, and there's a statement to the effect that "The capital will switch from x to y." Granted, I agree that that doesn't mean they thought through the implications as far to the ahistorical extreme as I did.
I think I'll be keeping the duchies in feudal hands. Open Elective is too chaotic a succession to have to deal with for vassals. Much prefer to be able to put my family in those slots. Think that'll cost me the -30 wrong government relations penalty twice, but that's probably worth the trade.
 

erekose123

Major
73 Badges
Sep 2, 2004
531
61
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Meneth seems well into math, which is good, but i'm personaly waiting for a detailed guide on how to manage family and achieve a goal like jumping from count to duke, or duke to king.

Keeping track of your kinsmen and women and knowing who will do what where and why and what you can do about it is my biggest difficulty atm.
 

QuestGAV

First Lieutenant
71 Badges
Aug 22, 2002
284
12
no.thanks.com
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
Phenomenal thread, I learned as much about the mechanics underneath the hood from it as I have from playing 120 years of the reconquista as Castille. I got about 2/3 of it done, but am having trouble reconciling some of the info here with what I'm seeing in the game. It seems like my vassals have been trying to implement Pode's ideas on their own... in Beja, Sevilla, and Valencia the capitals for all of the counties are now the cities without intentional effort on my part, and the Duke in charge of them is labeled as a Doge. Porto, Barcelona, Galicia, etc are all still ruled by Dukes with castles as the county capital. I believe I took almost all of the territory from Muslims and dispersed it in one go by granting the Duke title directly, sometimes to unlanded folks (though I'm pretty sure most of them were nobles in my family). Not sure how they got switched to city-states in the process

Interestingly, the numbers under total paid to me/total yearly tax don't jibe with the numbers on the realm screen of the ledger except for the counties I own directly. For example, Cadiz which is recently conquered/wrong culture/wrong religion is listed as 0.0/0.4 when clicking the county, but on my ledger screen it is 17.5/57.2. The first scenario seems more likely, but I can't explain the discrepancy. The city of Medina is the county capital but not the duchal capital and owned directly by the Doge of Sevilla who has an opinion of +32. Valencia, otoh, is owned directly by the Doge of Valencia (+10 opinion) and listed as 0.0/61.2 on the county screen and 0.0/51.0 on the ledger. It's not recently conquered and has been converted to Catholicism. Why is Cadiz throwing money and why is Valencia not paying me a dime?

In either case, I'm intrigued by Pode's ideas. Why give out duke titles? It seems like your best bet is to keep a number of independent grand cities reporting directly to you (with their bishops paying taxes directly to your sexy anti-pope) with two duchal titles for yourself along with the 6/7/8 best counties. Your vassal levy numbers will never be impressive but you'd apparently be rolling in dough.
 

naggy

Field Marshal
85 Badges
Oct 23, 2003
5.755
5
Visit site
  • Cities: Skylines
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
In either case, I'm intrigued by Pode's ideas. Why give out duke titles? It seems like your best bet is to keep a number of independent grand cities reporting directly to you (with their bishops paying taxes directly to your sexy anti-pope) with two duchal titles for yourself along with the 6/7/8 best counties. Your vassal levy numbers will never be impressive but you'd apparently be rolling in dough.

There are only so many mercs available at any given time (it seems like less as time goes on), forcing you to rely on levies. All the gold in the world is useless if there are no mercenaries left to hire.
 

tdpatriots12

Second Lieutenant
30 Badges
May 26, 2010
116
12
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
If you're - almost quite literally - rolling in dough, why not just keep the mercs hired? I ean, if you've got all the gold in the world...
 

naggy

Field Marshal
85 Badges
Oct 23, 2003
5.755
5
Visit site
  • Cities: Skylines
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
If you're - almost quite literally - rolling in dough, why not just keep the mercs hired? I ean, if you've got all the gold in the world...

I think that they reinforce faster when not being hired, and there are still a limited number of merc bands.
 

naggy

Field Marshal
85 Badges
Oct 23, 2003
5.755
5
Visit site
  • Cities: Skylines
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition

QuestGAV

First Lieutenant
71 Badges
Aug 22, 2002
284
12
no.thanks.com
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
There are only so many mercs available at any given time (it seems like less as time goes on), forcing you to rely on levies. All the gold in the world is useless if there are no mercenaries left to hire.

If you're fighting infidels offensively, you'll also be paying upkeep on the Holy Orders which can get quite expensive. It also frees you up to buy all the upgrades in your own castles making your personal levy that much more powerful. Rebellions are going to be less centralized and run on the backs of city levies rather than castle levies. I'm pretty new at this game though so I may be missing large parts of the big picture.
 

naggy

Field Marshal
85 Badges
Oct 23, 2003
5.755
5
Visit site
  • Cities: Skylines
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Majesty 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
That said, there is one option - rack up all the duke titles and break all the kingdoms up. Most vassals will have the -25 penalty for wanting a duchy, but singular counties simply aren't going to do much about it.
 

Sir Arkatreides

Second Lieutenant
98 Badges
Dec 30, 2010
128
95
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Very nice post!

One small addition to the tax section. The stewardship value of the baron/bishop/mayor (and other vassals) is also factored in. So say, you have a city with a tax of 12 and the mayor's stewardship is 10 (+10% bonus) the effective tax for the city is 13.2 and you get your percentage off that value. The display on the county screen is actually wrong here as it only displays the base tax without the effect from stewardship but if you look on either your Holder Desmene view or the Holder Desmene view of the owner of the city, you will see that the values there reflect the stewardship values.
 

Meneth

Crusader Kings 3 Programmer
153 Badges
Feb 9, 2011
10.056
5.378
www.paradoxwikis.com
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Finished the latest installation, this time on marriage and children. Sorry I'm a bit late.

Marriage and Children; Ensuring Your Future
First posted here.

As Crusader Kings II is based around your dynasty, getting the most out of marriage is essential. Marriage is the primary way to expand your dynasty, and to ensure its continuation. In addition, marriage can be used to forge alliances.
I'll go into how the marriage mechanic works, and how you can use it to your benefit.
As always there's a summary at the end.


The Basics
Anyone above the age of 16 can get married. Anyone below 16 can get betrothed. There is no max age at which one can get married, but women become completely infertile at 45.
Marriage brings several benefits, the most obvious of which is child birth. In addition, you also get half of your spouse's stats added to your own for the purpose of state statistics, and for determining demesne size. You'll also get prestige if the house your spouse is from is a prestigious one, and you'll get or lose prestige depending on the rank of your spouse, 20 prestige per step above or below you. So if for example you as an emperor marry a king's daughter, you'll lose 20 prestige while she'll gain 20.
Further there are many events, both good and bad, tied to being married. The traits of your children will also be affected by the traits of your spouse, and you can assign your spouse as spymaster as the position is limited to males, the ruler's mother, and the ruler's spouse.

Children
As long as the female in a marriage is under 45 and neither character has the Celibate trait, she can potentially get pregnant. The chance of pregnancy is affected by several traits, like Chaste and Lustful. It is also possible for her to get pregnant through events, for example if your male character becomes rather angry with the death of his first-born son.
Couples tend to have two children on average, but traits increasing fertility can make a couple produce far more than this. My personal record is 9 children, and I've heard of people having as many as 15. So as long as you don't have any fertility reducing traits, you should be able to get enough children to continue your dynasty.
The stats and traits of a child will be affected by the stats and traits of both parents. As such if you want a good heir it is wise to marry someone with good stats and traits. Do note that a mother will have very good relations with her own children, but not the children from a previous pairing. As such if you remarry and have more children, you risk your new wife assassinating your original children to pave the way for her own.

Statistics
Half of your spouse's stats will be added to your own for most purposes. This includes all the state statistics and your demesne limit.
As your spouse affects your demesne limit, a high Stewardship spouse means you'll be able to hold several more holdings, 1 for every 8 points (s)he has in Stewardship. For reference, you can hold 1 extra holding for every 4 points you have in Stewardship.
If your spouse has higher numbers in any stat, you'll be likely to get occasional events where you'll get the opportunity to ask your spouse for help. This usually gives you a positive temporary modifier to some aspect of your realm, and a 20% chance of getting 1 point in that skill. However, there's also an 80% chance to get the Content trait, which means you cannot get the extremely useful Ambitious trait (+2 to every stat)
Marrying someone with high stats can therefore be very useful, and can make a big difference in how well you're able to control your realm.

Alliances
Marrying someone or their son or daughter, or marrying your son or daughter to them or their son of daughter, will give you an alliance. However, unless they join your dynasty either through you/your son marrying patrilinealy or you(female)/your daughter marrying matrilinealy, this alliance will not persist for future generations. As such, many marriages will only confer a temporary alliance, not a lasting one.
If you want a lasting alliance, you'll have to ensure the children are of your own dynasty. The alliance will then persist forever unless a later generation leaves your dynasty.
By marrying your children to other powerful lieges, you'll be able to call these characters into your own wars and thus have them assist you. This is however a two-edged sword as they can do the exact same with you, and if you decline the call to arms you'll get a loss to prestige and take an opinion hit.

Overall Strategy
When you're marrying someone, or marrying your primary heir to someone, your first priority should be good stats and traits. Avoid anyone with big losses to fertility, and anyone above 30, as they'll be much less likely to produce the children you need. Especially seek positive genetic traits, full list below:
  • Fair - Gives 30 opinion with the opposite sex, +1 diplomacy. Especially useful if a female heir gets it.
  • Genius - +2 to all stats, +5 opinion with all vassals. EXTREMELY good trait
  • Quick - +1 to all stats. Very good trait.
  • Strong - +1 Diplomacy, +2 Martial, +2 Health, +10% Fertility, +10 opinion with the opposite sex, +10 opinion with all vassals. Extremely good trait.
On the other hand, avoid the negative genetic traits as these could end up plaguing your heirs for generations. Full list below:
  • Clubfooted - -10 opinion with the opposite sex, -1 martial
  • Harelip - -10 opinion with the opposite sex, -1 diplomacy
  • Hunchback - -30 opinion with the opposite sex, -5 opinion with all vassals, -1 martial
  • Lisp - -5 opinion with the opposite sex, -1 diplomacy
  • Stutter - -1 diplomacy
  • Ugly - -20 opinion with the opposite sex, -1 diplomacy
  • Dwarf - -30 opinion with the opposite sex, -1 martial
  • Slow - -1 to all stats
  • Imbecile - -2 to all stats, -10 opinion with all vassals. Extremely bad trait.
  • Inbred - -3 to all stats, -30% fertility, -1.5 health, -20 opinion with all vassals. Even worse than Imbecile.
  • Weak - -1 health, -5% fertility, -1 martial, -10 opinion with the opposite sex, -10 opinion with all vassals.
When you're marrying off children who won't be your heir, these concerns are far from as important. You should still try to avoid the worst of the genetic traits however, as you don't ever want to be stuck with them.
Your primary priority when marrying off children is instead to expand your dynasty and to gain alliances. If you get the chance, marry your daughters matrilinealy. Try to avoid marrying your sons matrilinealy, as the children being a part of your dynasty is of great benefit, as then the alliance will persist through the generations.
If you get the opportunity to marry in a way that preserves your lineage, not the other dynasty, try to marry the ruler or his/her primary heir, but only if they don't have children already. A second batch of children of your dynasty is far from as useful as primary heirs of your dynasty.
Further, try to avoid marrying people that are already in your dynasty, as then you risk the negative genetic traits. While the risk is very low once you get a few steps away (E.G., second cousins), it generally isn't worth it. So unless you have a very good reason to do so, never marry anyone in your own dynasty. You don't want to end up like Charles II of Spain.

Summary
Through well thought-out marriages you can gain powerful alliances and expand your dynasty, and ensure good heirs. Bad marriages on the other hand could have you end up dead or with an inbred heir. Overall my tips are as follows:
  • Avoid marrying within your dynasty
  • When possible, preserve your dynasty; marry daughters matrilinealy (if possible) and sons patrilinealy
  • When preserving your dynasty, marry rulers or heirs
  • Avoid remarrying unless necessary
  • Avoid bad genetic traits like the plague
  • When you or your heir is marrying someone, find someone with good stats and traits
  • The Genius and Quick traits are extremely useful
  • If you want children, don't marry anyone above 30 or someone with traits that reduce fertility
 
Last edited:

Meneth

Crusader Kings 3 Programmer
153 Badges
Feb 9, 2011
10.056
5.378
www.paradoxwikis.com
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
Oh, and I've hit the character limit in the original post, so I'll be unable to update it for now. I've contacted the moderators, so hopefully they'll split the post in two so that I can continue updating it.