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Misaka_Complex

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I didn't realise he was talking about random multiplayer. In which case my solution would be:

Give up and find a game on the forums with people who want to not exploit the games mechanics

I mean reading OP's post its quite clear that he enjoys abusing said mechanic and prides himself with it. I don't necessarily agree with him but that doesn't take away the fact that he has a point since there are no house rules in random MP games meaning that the problem persists.
 

rust95

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I mean reading OP's post its quite clear that he enjoys abusing said mechanic and prides himself with it. I don't necessarily agree with him but that doesn't take away the fact that he has a point since there are no house rules in random MP games meaning that the problem persists.

What exactly is the problem? The problem can only be solved by either making it much harder for minors to justify a war so they aren't happening all over the place (HoI3) and spiking world tension, or to prevent allies from guaranteeing/raise the guarantee % significantly, allowing the axis to do whatever they want before the allies foci bring them in.
 

Misaka_Complex

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What exactly is the problem?

The problem is that the Allies can directly intervene in the 2nd Sino Japanese war very early in said random MP games, which can be solved by preventing any forms of Guarantee on China and the PRC by any nation. Like I said earlier I only agree that the Allies being able to guarantee China is dumb not that guaranteeing in general is dumb.
 
Last edited:

Dracolithfiend

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I mean reading OP's post its quite clear that he enjoys abusing said mechanic and prides himself with it. I don't necessarily agree with him but that doesn't take away the fact that he has a point since there are no house rules in random MP games meaning that the problem persists.
Only in hoi4 can justifying against a single nation be considered mechanic abuse....

Scratch that. I checked the log and it turned out to be my fault in fact (started justifying on France).
The fact that merely starting to justify raises tension rather then a slow increase is an issue in and of itself.
 

Sourlol

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The problem is that the Allies can directly intervene in the 2nd Sino Japanese war very early in said random MP games,

So he is in an ahistorical random player no rules MP game...and he is complaining about the lack of a rule to prevent abuse?

Huh. :thinkingface:

Play without rules and situations unfold...that is like what you wanted isn't it? The game doesn't tether players to their countries' real geopolitical landscape. The Axis and Comintern can team up ffs. If the Axis in your game mismanages WT so poorly that Axis minors can't expand, then the Axis deserves to lose.
 

rust95

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Only in hoi4 can justifying against a single nation be considered mechanic abuse....


The fact that merely starting to justify raises tension rather then a slow increase is an issue in and of itself.

Managing WT is a mechanic in HoI which requires attention from the axis in order to have a chance at winning. This is part of the game which prevents the axis from recklessly expanding and unleashing the wrath of the allies, i don't see what the issue is if i'm honest!
 

Dracolithfiend

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The issue is it cripples nations that start out as neutral.
 

Dracolithfiend

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Well, sorry if you cannot do a WC as Albania. Not everything is possible in game, after all.
I like how you didn't read anything and make the same snide remark as has been said before. I am trying to fabricate a claim on ONE neighboring country 1936! Sorry you can't fabricate a claim on Iraq as Iran in 1936 because that = WC back in 3000BC
 

bitmode

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I am trying to fabricate a claim on ONE neighboring country 1936!
As has been said multiple times now a single justification in 36 wouldn't allow the Allies to guarantee. If in your MP game everyone is throwing around justifications then you can't blame the game mechanics for working as intended. @rust95 really already said everything there is to say
 

Opanashc

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Loaded up as Turkey, with historical focus. Flipped Fascist and justified Bulgaria. DOWed on 4 Oct 1937 without any issue. WT was 20%, SPA won SCW, Japan DOWed Shaanxi and N.China.
Dracolithfiend, can you provide a screen or list of WT-raising events?
 

Dracolithfiend

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It's already been established the issue is claim fabrication instantly raising world tension. Rather than addressing this and brainstorming alternative solutions you all seem content to play a game of see who can keep world tension low and refer to basic game mechanics as exploits and abuse. I will post a simple idea but I am done replying.

Claim fabrication should not raise world tension in and of itself. Instead the events that pop up could have various options and even be affected by encryption/decryption/radar tech. These could potentially raise world tension, alter national unity, cost pp, etc.

World tension should be divided between "World" and "regional" with smaller countries not playing as big a role to the eyes of empires. A bit like how the league of Nations gave precisely zero &#!@'s about minor conflicts such as the Saudi yemeni war as it involved nobody of consequence to the status quo.
 

Opanashc

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It's already been established the issue is claim fabrication instantly raising world tension. Rather than addressing this and brainstorming alternative solutions you all seem content to play a game of see who can keep world tension low and refer to basic game mechanics as exploits and abuse. I will post a simple idea but I am done replying.
And I agreed! But I demonstrated, that as Turkey it is entirely possible to DOW Bulgaria in late 1937, and not have any Allied guarantees on it, even with current mechanics, yet you say otherwise. So I am trying to determine, what are you doing differently.
[
World tension should be divided between "World" and "regional" with smaller countries not playing as big a role to the eyes of empires. A bit like how the league of Nations gave precisely zero &#!@'s about minor conflicts such as the Saudi yemeni war as it involved nobody of consequence to the status quo.
Nobody in the world batted an eye on that war, because it was insignificant. Turkey on Bulgaria IS significant.
 

thedarkendstar

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I would agree but not because it prevents minors from doing anything but because its not organic The Uk sees someone justifying over 25 percent instant guarantee is not Organic the AI isn't helping itself if the US is fabricating a claim on Mexico do you really think its in the UK's interest to fight the US I dont.Especially if they are already fighting Germany.Alot of the diplomacy in this game feels stiff rather than organic :/
 

hkrommel

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Yeah I'm kind of wondering why OP thinks the powers-that-be wouldn't react strongly to a minor nation gearing up for an aggressive war that could result in regional or global imbalance? HoI4 isn't a total sandbox, fortunately.
 

cat013

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Yeah I'm kind of wondering why OP thinks the powers-that-be wouldn't react strongly to a minor nation gearing up for an aggressive war that could result in regional or global imbalance?

Czechoslovakia was one of very very few (two, to be exact) countries that factually had Western guarantees, AND it was in a position to really contribute should the West have decided to stop Hitler early on - but the future Allies preferred to go Munich instead. So, yes, I personally do have a problem with UK and France jolly jumping into wars over Estonia or Bolivia.
 

Dalwin

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The problem is that the Allies can directly intervene in the 2nd Sino Japanese war very early in said random MP games, which can be solved by preventing any forms of Guarantee on China and the PRC by any nation. Like I said earlier I only agree that the Allies being able to guarantee China is dumb not that guaranteeing in general is dumb.
That sounds a lot like wanting to play in a wide-open, anything-goes format, unless the things being done are ones you don't like. I am surprised there are still people playing random MP with no house rules, but each to his own of course.
 

Misaka_Complex

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Aug 3, 2016
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That sounds a lot like wanting to play in a wide-open, anything-goes format, unless the things being done are ones you don't like. I am surprised there are still people playing random MP with no house rules, but each to his own of course.

If you look at the lobby at random times you will see games like "1936 all welcome!" which are random MP games with no house rules. I understand that some people like playing with house rules with specific people at set times but it should also be considered that random MP games without house rules are also a frequent and common way to play the game. Therefore the Allies guaranteeing China very early on still counts as a problem and turning a blind eye to the issue putting the blame on the players doesn't solve the issue. Sure people are free to blame the OP but I'm certain that he is not the only one abusing said mechanic so I believe that it is time for a fix.