Greek unification

[PanzerWilly]

As much as I love history, i don't think it is for high schools to teach in depth history. That is for universities.

Kids need to learn so many other things to succeed that the Mughal Empire or the Ming Dynasty are luxuries.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

As much as I love history, i don't think it is for high schools to teach in depth history. That is for universities.

Kids need to learn so many other things to succeed that the Mughal Empire or the Ming Dynasty are luxuries.

I'd have to disagree, when you get to college, you realize that you missed out on giant chunks of knowledge that could've been pretty useful.

Not teaching people the history of a nation like China promotes the idea that they are foreign and different. The people who know little about a culture are likely candidates to use that culture as a scapegoat or target of domination.

It's the political and philosophical teaching of history in context to modern times that creates an informed and critical thinking populous. Not just the recitation of local history. If you think high schools are OK conduits of education without teaching any form of philosophy I'd say you're mistaken and it's a sad fact we live in that society.

Not every moral advance in history was made in the confines of Western Europe. I think it couldn't hurt to teach people (not just the ones fortunate to attend a university) different approaches to culture and beliefs.

I'm going to get off the horse now.

 

[CirMag]

I'd have to disagree, when you get to college, you realize that you missed out on giant chunks of knowledge that could've been pretty useful.

Not teaching people the history of a nation like China promotes the idea that they are foreign and different. The people who know little about a culture are likely candidates to use that culture as a scapegoat or target of domination.

It's the political and philosophical teaching of history in context to modern times that creates an informed and critical thinking populous. Not just the recitation of local history. If you think high schools are OK conduits of education without teaching any form of philosophy I'd say you're mistaken and it's a sad fact we live in that society.

Not every moral advance in history was made in the confines of Western Europe. I think it couldn't hurt to teach people (not just the ones fortunate to attend a university) different approaches to culture and beliefs.

I'm going to get off the horse now.

Could always discuss it in the OT, sounds interesting.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

Indeed the topic has gone astray, this is about my hard-on for Greece. :rofl:

Can anyone release it as a nation? I could at least set them up to be played...

I'm not much of one to personally tweak my game files o I'll ride the evolution of the 4.1 patch

 

[6354201]

I'd have to disagree, when you get to college, you realize that you missed out on giant chunks of knowledge that could've been pretty useful.

Not teaching people the history of a nation like China promotes the idea that they are foreign and different. The people who know little about a culture are likely candidates to use that culture as a scapegoat or target of domination.

It's the political and philosophical teaching of history in context to modern times that creates an informed and critical thinking populous. Not just the recitation of local history. If you think high schools are OK conduits of education without teaching any form of philosophy I'd say you're mistaken and it's a sad fact we live in that society.

Not every moral advance in history was made in the confines of Western Europe. I think it couldn't hurt to teach people (not just the ones fortunate to attend a university) different approaches to culture and beliefs.

I'm going to get off the horse now.

I know this is off topic, but I just wanted to say that I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, I sometimes wonder how practical it is to teach such a widespread view of history. As it stands now, despite focusing on Europe and the U.S., most students still leave high school in the U.S. with a barely adequate idea of history in the U.S. and/or Europe. It's not uncommon to meet people who don't have the faintest idea of when World War 1 was, or even the civil war, much less what they were really about and what their legacy is.

I think this lack of comprehension is in large part due to too much emphasis being placed on memorization and not the themes of history, and how it impacts us today. History isn't about dates, it's about the human narrative, and we have much to learn from it.

Add to the fact that the school district budgets are already cramped (especially in districts with low property tax revenue), and it doesn't seem feasible to add in dedicated Indian or Chinese history courses when the core curriculum is barely being taught adequately.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

I know this is off topic, but I just wanted to say that I completely agree with you. Unfortunately, I sometimes wonder how practical it is to teach such a widespread view of history. As it stands now, despite focusing on Europe and the U.S., most students still leave high school in the U.S. with a barely adequate idea of history in the U.S. and/or Europe. It's not uncommon to meet people who don't have the faintest idea of when World War 1 was, or even the civil war, much less what they were really about and what their legacy is.

I think this lack of comprehension is in large part due to too much emphasis being placed on memorization and not the themes of history, and how it impacts us today. History isn't about dates, it's about the human narrative, and we have much to learn from it.

Add to the fact that the school district budgets are already cramped (especially in districts with low property tax revenue), and it doesn't seem feasible to add in dedicated Indian or Chinese history courses when the core curriculum is barely being taught adequately.

PZ Meyers sums it up that we don't need to teach microbiology and the difference between Doric, Ionic, and Corinthian to kindergarten students.

Rational, critical thought, if taught properly to the young, would create people that seek out their own answers.

EDIT: My take on this is that you can make a world of great thinkers with amazing debate skills, but you'll never get rid of their urge to solve answers to problems with sticks and bats.

 

[unmerged(25822)]

Play WWM , Greece is there , i played a Greece vs Byzantium game and we both ended up annexed by the Ottos

You can also go in history files and mark one of the Greek OPMs as GRE.

 

[JKNUBZ]

Glorious Virginia, greatest and first american land to ever be, has fine schools of the public persuasion.

Though there are some good US public schools, to be sure (I went to one), I would still be very surprised if the word "Mughal" had e'er been spoken inside one.

Hell, AP European History classes don't even MENTION the Ottomans...

 

[Boris ze Spider]

Speak for yourself, Midwesterner. Glorious Virginia, greatest and first american land to ever be, has fine schools of the public persuasion.

Heh heh heh, you haven't been to the norfolk public schools lately have you

 

[unmerged(197061)]

Not as surprising as it should be. As majors are now it's easy to miss what should be a major empire I know history majors who know of fewer major empires than I do, and I majored in Political Science and took a job in law enforcement than didn't use the major...

Can't complaing about my public school or college classes, they taught as much as I would learn. Now I wish they were broader but then I'd have learned less as far as depth...

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Academic tunnel vision is beyond belief. Back in my time studying with the finest in the land (thus not Oxford) one girl, for example, had never heard of the King James Bible. I used to have a weekly archaeology seminar with another one who didn't know what time period the word 'Victorian' indicated, and wasn't even able to come up with the word when spoonfed by the Dr - nineteenth century, eight letters? Begins with V? I wish I was joking.

This was a history degree, mind you. It focused on a different period, but what a crippling lack of context - and how could someone with the intellectual curiosity of a box turtle get to the age of 20 without finding out? All I learnt there was contempt for the humanities, only to find the outside world lumps us all together anyway. But I'm not bitter

 

[ZappyVlaams]

I think there should be a 'fall of the Byzantine empire' event, which automatically flips the Byzantine Empire to Greece if they don't own Anatolia or Thrace.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

I mean, can anyone explain WHY there are no Greek cores in, well, Greece

 

[unmerged(146373)]

I mean, can anyone explain WHY there are no Greek cores in, well, Greece

Because, in the game's context a core implies a united nation who has claim to the land.
At this point in time, Greece had never really been unified.
Macedonia and Rome may have owned it, but never once did they sponsor a Greek identity.
'Greece' existed only as a region not a nation, and the Greek national identity was the direct result of being united in opposition to the Ottoman Empire.

 

[unmerged(25822)]

'Greece' existed only as a region not a nation, and the Greek national identity was the direct result of being united in opposition to the Ottoman Empire.

This is totally wrong , Greeks were aware of their identify just after 1204 , actually this awareness alienated Slavic and Caucasian populations of the empire ; one the reasons of it's downfall.
I think that Greece should exist in vanilla game if Italy and Germany do but this is another topic.

 

[unmerged(146373)]

I think that Greece should exist in vanilla game if Italy and Germany do but this is another topic.

Agreed, if Germany and Italy can form in EU3 Greece should also have the ability to.

I was merely responding to Multi's question over why Greece doesn't start with cores everywhere.
It's basically the same reason Italy and Germany don't start with cores on everything.
There was no "Greek nation" yet, so cores in EU's sense can't exist.
Now in Victoria you could make an argument for it...

 

[unmerged(146885)]

I mean, can anyone explain WHY there are no Greek cores in, well, Greece

Because the idea of a unified Greek nation began during the enlightment. If you start EU3 at the age of enlightment you'll see those cores.
Before the enlightment the Greeks believed that their homeland is the Byzantine Empire.

 

[unmerged(199227)]

^Looks like that's from the mouth of a Greek

 

[unmerged(146885)]

In the simple EU3, Larissa and some parts of Macedonia are united in the province of Salonica. In IN, Some parts of Salonica go to Macedonia. In HttT, Salonica is renamed to Larissa.

 

[unmerged(150720)]

To form Byzantium ain't you gotta form Greece first? I'm quite sure i did that in IN.