Is there only one diplomatic decision for greece? (convert to constitutional monarchy)
Greece?
- Thread starter Pickle_mole
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At the start, yes. Others relating to tech should become available.
"Resurrect Byzantium", convert to BYZ and get cores on all of Thrace and the Anatolian coast?
They damn well better have!"Resurrect Byzantium", convert to BYZ and get cores on all of Thrace and the Anatolian coast?
Just finished installing. Time to lead Prussia into greatness!
Hopefully they won't go to over the top with a form Byzantium decision. Cores on anything more then Thrace+the Izmir region would be rather silly. I don't have to much faith though after In Nomine where they gave them ridiculous amounts of cores.
But presumably it'll require some rather high prestige and military scores which should be nigh unreachable by the AI, so I guess it'll be fine even if they go totally over the top with it.
But presumably it'll require some rather high prestige and military scores which should be nigh unreachable by the AI, so I guess it'll be fine even if they go totally over the top with it.
We are talking about the 19th century, so large greek populations still lived not only in Asia Minor but also in Pontus and (i think so) Kappadocia. I know that it was not the majority of the population, but in paradox games nations often have cores in provinces with a largely hostile population.
Of course, greek cores should also be present in Thessaly, Crete, Macedonia and Cyprus. Bulgaria and possibly Serbia should also have cores in Macedonia.
A question about Ottomans: are they given cores in Northern Africa? They should have cores in most of the african coast.
Of course, greek cores should also be present in Thessaly, Crete, Macedonia and Cyprus. Bulgaria and possibly Serbia should also have cores in Macedonia.
A question about Ottomans: are they given cores in Northern Africa? They should have cores in most of the african coast.
A great portion of the "Turkish" mediterranean coast, not just Smyrna, was still Greek until the mass murders of Christians under the Young Turks. Eastern Thrace and Smyrna just happened to be some of the last places where Greeks still survived when the treaty of Sèvres was signed (and immidiately broken by Kemal Attackturk). If Greece had managed to get western support or had somehow beaten the Turk earlier, most of the coast up to the Dodecanese, as well as the Black Sea coast around Trebizond (the Greek Pontus), could realistically have been restored into Greece. Without a preceding genocide there would also simply have been a lot more Greeks still around.
Also remember that when Greece got its independence, they wanted to call themselves 'Rome' again, but were forced to take the (barbaric) Greece/Hellas name instead: England refused to support the Megali Idea and without English support Greece stood no chance, so they had to temporarily give up on it.
A succesful Greece could very well have resurrected it -- the movement is still not fully dead today.
Last edited:
- Dec 14, 1999
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I don't think you'll ever see it unless you play greece really really good, as you need to own Constantinople, most of Asia Minor and be a great power
And a monarchy of course.
Bear in mind that the proposals the Greeks presented after WWI were as ambitious as:
Let me guess:
"Send king Otto home (our first king was Bavarian) and ask Europe to find a new king"
Historically, the new king was a Dane and he was sent to Greece bearing a gift, the islands of the Ionian sea.
Some modders will surely take this great opportunity to enrich playing Greece. And of course, the ideas of restoring (eastern) Roman Empire is always tempting
You raise a couple of good points. But do you honestly believe that Atatürk and Turkey wasn't justified in breaking the treaty of Lausanne? That treaty was more unfair then Versailles by miles and Turkey was essentially treated as a backward colony, prime for economical exploitation.
Anyway, part of the problem is that while many (coastal) cities were quite Greek the countryside was very heavily Turkish. If there had been provinces that only covered the cities it would be fine I guess.
I don't really have an issue with the idea of a Byzantium decision. Historically all you really would have needed would be a hellenophile Russian tsar and a Greek king with delusions of grandeur. Assuming the western powers don't intervene and that the Ottomans doesn't fight to hard; Voila, insta-Byzantium. Now, I personally think that they would have been better off adding other nations like Syria for example since Byzantium in the end really just is Greece with an Emperor on the throne. Hell, they should really just add another kind of government with an associated flag, "imperial". If Greece has an imperial government (which you could get through decision if you are a monarchy with some fancy military score requirements I guess.), then change the name of it to Byzantium with that new name changing feature they have and change the flag to the EU3 one. There, no need for an additional tag.
(I'm still flabbergasted by your Attackturk comment. Really now
)Edit:
I don't think you'll ever see it unless you play greece really really good, as you need to own Constantinople, most of Asia Minor and be a great power
And a monarchy of course.
Well, I'm satisfied
Sounds like sound goals for my second campaign.I don't think you'll ever see it unless you play greece really really good, as you need to own Constantinople, most of Asia Minor and be a great power
And a monarchy of course.
If I the Byzantophiles get Byzantium, I want the Ottomans to have cores on Greece, the Crimea, all of Egypt, half of Hungary, and Vienna, just to annoy the Austrians! Oh, and southern Italy. Never forget Mehmet's campaigns! Anyway.......even if Greece formed Byzantium, they would still be Greece in all but name, just bigger borders and with a lot of angry Turks. :rofl:/
Thanks for the clarification, Johan. Can't wait to try my hand at restoring the Empire! Sounds like it'll be much harder than in VIP where you just captured Constantinople and held it for a few weeks.
You mean the Treaty of Sèvres, not Lausanne. Lausanne ended the 1919-22 war, confirmed the Republic of Turkey in control of Eastern Thrace and the Aegean coast, and mandated population transfers between Greece and Turkey. Furthermore, it could be argued that the Republican government didn't "break" the Sèvres treaty, since it was never a party to it in the first place - the Sultan, i.e. the sovereign against whom they were rebelling, was.
I kind of agree. Greater Syria was one of the coolest might've-been states of the relevant period. And I'm a self-described greekfag.Kainser said:
The West (more specifically, England) has always been pro-Turkish. An example, back when Russia spearheaded an invasion to liberate the Balkans. After the Ottoman Empire had essentially lost that conflict and it was about to lose all of its European possessions but thankfully, Great Britain, who was concerned about a thing called "balance of power" and sent its naval fleet to Constantinople to stop Russia from taking the city from Turkey. And stop Russia they did. Many times when the Turks were in danger of losing its European possessions, its European allies were always more than happy to help save their rears and help them retain their European possessions which, ultimately, is an offense on all Europeans as they are invaders who have never been a part of Europe proper.