Greece? Bulgaria? then what's next? Most of players never play such endless unimportant minors!

[Simon Marques]

Some nations really shouldn't be playable like Luxembourg and Ecuador, precisely because it was unrealistic these nations couldn't build a war machine. But nations like Bulgaria and Greece cannot be left out of the new additions, because they were an important part of the conflict, especially Greece, because it humiliated Italy.

 

[DaleDVM]

I mostly agree with the OP. (Not on tank aces, but I do feel the same frustrations!) Yet, I don't mind PDX making minor nations their own trees and adding minor nation flavor as new content. I will pay for the expansion... and will never ever play as one of those countries. Why? I hope my money will support the team that might fix the main game.

If people like playing minor nations because of flavor and/or because it is easier, I think that is great. Finding out what effect a small country can have on the direction of the war can be interesting. It is awesome that PDX has given players that option.

What I find disturbing is that PDX falsely empowers the minor countries (to buff the AI and/or make it more fun for players) which affects the balance of the entire game. This allows players taking over these minors to be able to do things that were literally impossible with those minor countries during that time period. I would think that those who want to play Turkey/Yugoslavia/Greece/Bulgaria, would want to play them with realistic limitations, including difficult decisions/trade-offs that match their historical capabilities/challenges from 1936-194?... And then, see what they can achieve with that country.

I don't want to play falsely empowered nations. It seems to me that most minors have been falsely buffed when they get updated game content. It even seems like there is more power creep with each new expansion.

I also find it a contradiction that so many people in this thread are saying they love playing minor countries because they find it the most challenging way to play HOI4, and yet are disagreeing with the OP. Shouldn't playing the game as a major power that actually fought in WWII be the challenging part of a WWII period simulation? That is the point the OP was trying to get across. If I have to play as Bulgaria to have a challenge in a WWII period simulation, then the game is fundamentally broken. It sounds to me like those people who play minor countries as a challenge mostly agree with the OP like I do.

Happy gaming to all!

 

[Ultimaratio]

Improved or new game mechanics would be more attractive for me. Country packs are mostlikley easier to create and to sell than stuff the OP mentioned.

 

[Wime]

Well they hired some consultans to do this focus trees. While I also want more game mechanics the normal Hoi4 team is doing that. So for me this is just an extra. I also like to note that we aren't owned any content and dont have to buy it. To summerize I see your point but I dont agree

 

[Zeprion]

I am wondering how PDX spends developers time wasting on minors such as Greece and Bulgaria, the endless unimportant nations most of us will never play.
Instead, PDX should focus on game mechanics improvements such as AI, order of battle, brigade +division +corps +army +army group +front, and infrastructure +railways +bridges etc.
Some of game details such as tank building mechanic, airplane manufacturing and more detailed economic models and work/human resources will be the needed add-ons on current game mechanics. Why not just adding Tank Aces per tank battalions?? Heroes and Aces slots 5-10 per division and their assignments to other units, more and more historical generals, SS and Red Guards will be the excellent small details to make this game more time consuming and fun.

Thanks and regards
Jochen

While the most played nations are definitely the major ones: England, France, USA, Germany, Italy, Japan, USSR; you are missing 80% of the game if you only play with the major ones.

- Imagine playing Nationalist China and defending against Japan with a weaker army.
- Imagine playing Communist China or the Warlords and trying to take control of the country while at war with Japan when you are not the biggest player.
- Imagine playing as Menchuko and trying to break away from Japan while trying to win a war in China.

- Imagine playing with England's colonies and be only a minor part of the war, you'll have to deploy your forces strategically.
- Imagine playing a Death or Dishonor country and try to fight the nazi, or the soviets, or both.

- Imagine playing Albania and trying to hold your ground against Italy.
- Imagine starting as El Salvador and forming a huge nation in South America.
- Imagine liberating all of Africa as Liberia.

You have a lot of interesting scenarios if you play as minor countries. Not always being the biggest dog on the street can have its charm.

And that's not even covering the unhistorical alternative situations.

 

[brissyger]

I mostly agree with the OP. (Not on tank aces, but I do feel the same frustrations!) Yet, I don't mind PDX making minor nations their own trees and adding minor nation flavor as new content. I will pay for the expansion... and will never ever play as one of those countries. Why? I hope my money will support the team that might fix the main game.

If people like playing minor nations because of flavor and/or because it is easier, I think that is great. Finding out what effect a small country can have on the direction of the war can be interesting. It is awesome that PDX has given players that option.

What I find disturbing is that PDX falsely empowers the minor countries (to buff the AI and/or make it more fun for players) which affects the balance of the entire game. This allows players taking over these minors to be able to do things that were literally impossible with those minor countries during that time period. I would think that those who want to play Turkey/Yugoslavia/Greece/Bulgaria, would want to play them with realistic limitations, including difficult decisions/trade-offs that match their historical capabilities/challenges from 1936-194?... And then, see what they can achieve with that country.

I don't want to play falsely empowered nations. It seems to me that most minors have been falsely buffed when they get updated game content. It even seems like there is more power creep with each new expansion.

I also find it a contradiction that so many people in this thread are saying they love playing minor countries because they find it the most challenging way to play HOI4, and yet are disagreeing with the OP. Shouldn't playing the game as a major power that actually fought in WWII be the challenging part of a WWII period simulation? That is the point the OP was trying to get across. If I have to play as Bulgaria to have a challenge in a WWII period simulation, then the game is fundamentally broken. It sounds to me like those people who play minor countries as a challenge mostly agree with the OP like I do.

Happy gaming to all!

People play the game differently and I much prefer your attitude than some of the people who feel like Paradox somehow owe them and sometimes even look down on people who like to play ahistorical paths with minors. People like having more options and it is a lot of fun taking a minor power to become a big factor in the war even if it is not necessarily realistic. This is what pays the bills for Paradox though and supporting this kind of content is the only way they are going to be able to find the time to spend on the game mechanics.

I take your point about power creep but really that would only be a problem with MP or if you have historical mode turned off. The vast majority of the powerful focuses for these new trees lie in the alternative paths so if you are playing the AI on historical it shouldn't be an issue. I have never seen the AI in the Balkan nations successfully fend off either the Axis or the Soviets. Netherlands AI still get steamrolled by Germany as does France and so on. I appreciate it would be very annoying to have someone playing as these countries in MP and ruining your histroical experience for you though.

 

[UlulvarCape]

I am wondering how PDX spends developers time wasting on minors such as Greece and Bulgaria, the endless unimportant nations most of us will never play.
Instead, PDX should focus on game mechanics improvements such as AI, order of battle, brigade +division +corps +army +army group +front, and infrastructure +railways +bridges etc.
Some of game details such as tank building mechanic, airplane manufacturing and more detailed economic models and work/human resources will be the needed add-ons on current game mechanics. Why not just adding Tank Aces per tank battalions?? Heroes and Aces slots 5-10 per division and their assignments to other units, more and more historical generals, SS and Red Guards will be the excellent small details to make this game more time consuming and fun.

Thanks and regards
Jochen

The thing is though.

Bulgaria, and Greece were two highly requested minors, and even if they weren't, you'd need to have to compliment them with a very requested minor that many people play as.

Turkey is possibly the most requested minor to get a focus tree,mainly because of how many people play turkey. If anything, going fascist and destroying the Soviets along with germany, restoring the ottoman throne, etc.

 

[Ostovar Hossein]

I am wondering how PDX spends developers time wasting on minors such as Greece and Bulgaria, the endless unimportant nations most of us will never play.
Instead, PDX should focus on game mechanics improvements such as AI, order of battle, brigade +division +corps +army +army group +front, and infrastructure +railways +bridges etc.
Some of game details such as tank building mechanic, airplane manufacturing and more detailed economic models and work/human resources will be the needed add-ons on current game mechanics. Why not just adding Tank Aces per tank battalions?? Heroes and Aces slots 5-10 per division and their assignments to other units, more and more historical generals, SS and Red Guards will be the excellent small details to make this game more time consuming and fun.

Thanks and regards
Jochen

Bruh, Greece with help of allies managed to hold off Italian invasion forcing Germany to actually commit some of his forces to capture and occupy Greece ... also battles such as Crete cost Germany a lot in veteran paratroopers how is this unimportant? Imao please learn some history.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Some nations really shouldn't be playable like Luxembourg and Ecuador, precisely because it was unrealistic these nations couldn't build a war machine. But nations like Bulgaria and Greece cannot be left out of the new additions, because they were an important part of the conflict, especially Greece, because it humiliated Italy.

Even if they can't build up a war machine, they can play a useful role in a a faction, e.g. as spymaster.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Even if they can't build up a war machine, they can play a useful role in a a faction, e.g. as spymaster.

Sounds like engaging gameplay.

 

[safe-keeper]

I fully agree minor nations are way too OP, though. I know the idea is that they're supposed to be more fun to play, but then you could've made it an option for when you play as those nations, and left them historically weak when they were played by the AI.

 

[TalyonUngol]

I fully agree minor nations are way too OP, though. I know the idea is that they're supposed to be more fun to play, but then you could've made it an option for when you play as those nations, and left them historically weak when they were played by the AI.

Theres not really a way to do that i think. Plus this is one thing that i think balance and gameplay should take precendence over historocal accuracy. It doesnt affect the large scale of things if a minor nation gets strong.

 

[Simon Marques]

Even if they can't build up a war machine, they can play a useful role in a a faction, e.g. as spymaster.

From what I understand, nations like Ecuador won't have enough factories to play any role in the area of espionage(maybe I got it wrong). On another occasion, someone in some other topic explained that small nations like Ecuador are the best ones to spy because they don't have enough industry to develop a spy agency or something in this sense (I don't remember exactly).

 

[TalyonUngol]

From what I understand, nations like Ecuador won't have enough factories to play any role in the area of espionage(maybe I got it wrong). On another occasion, someone in some other topic explained that small nations like Ecuador are the best ones to spy because they don't have enough industry to develop a spy agency or something in this sense (I don't remember exactly).

If only spies worked well or was fun. Lol. The spy system overall is kinda crap.

 

[Jeremy971]

Also when you play Turkey and align with Axis.

You understand very well how much Turkey in real history played a key role.

An Axis Turkey conquer Egypt, Irak, Iran and provide all missing oil ressources to Germany.

For Operation Babarossa, they can Blitz the Caucasus Oil fields and almost take Stalingrad.

Turkey is so essential in Axis Strategy because they make everything easier.

I really think if Turkey had declared war to Allies in WW2, Axis would've won...

It's so obvious...

 

[Warchief Thrall]

The OP seems to have missed the Greece Dev Diary. Paradox said that these DLC are there to fill the void between major releases. They hired some outside people who only focused on these nations, that's why focus trees look so good. The majority of HOI 4 is working on the next big thing, which is Barbarossa update, probably coming out next spring.

 

[lordgoof]

The ai is so brain dead that I'm still not sure how cheesing the ai to make literally any minor take over half the world is fun. People have such low standards of games these days......

 

[TalyonUngol]

The ai is so brain dead that I'm still not sure how cheesing the ai to make literally any minor take over half the world is fun. People have such low standards of games these days......

Because some of us don't enjoy just playing Germany in order to have fun. You might, but I sure don't.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Sounds like engaging gameplay.

It’s also useful to let a newby play a small country (so they can’t mess up big). And experienced players can play such countries as an ultra hard challenge mode.

If only spies worked well or was fun. Lol. The spy system overall is kinda crap.

It needs improvement. The basics prvided by LR are not bad.

 

[TalyonUngol]

It’s also useful to let a newby play a small country (so they can’t mess up big). And experienced players can play such countries as an ultra hard challenge mode.


It needs improvement. The basics prvided by LR are not bad.

A newbie should be playing Germany. That is the easiest country to play and the best place to learn tactics.