Greece as a revolter state - a peculiarity

[Poppy Appletree]

Do the following: Start a game as the Ottomans in the Grand Campaign. Open the console and type in "annex BYZ". Then type in "revolt 146" (Athens).

Now do the following: Start a game as the Ottomans in the Grand Campaign. Open the console and type in "annex BYZ". Then type in "revolt 147" (Larissa).

 

[unmerged(200028)]

Do the following: Start a game as the Ottomans in the Grand Campaign. Open the console and type in "annex BYZ". Then type in "revolt 146" (Athens).

Now do the following: Start a game as the Ottomans in the Grand Campaign. Open the console and type in "annex BYZ". Then type in "revolt 147" (Larissa).

Why would you call this a peculiarity if you're going to cheat to force it to happen?

 

[Poppy Appletree]

Why would you call this a peculiarity if you're going to cheat to force it to happen?

I was trying to determine what would cause Greece to form, as I wish to play as them; console commands are a reliable method to so. The peculiarity is that Greece will rebel from Venice (Catholic) but not the Ottomans (Sunni), which is rather unexpected.

 

[unmerged(200028)]

I was trying to determine what would cause Greece to form, as I wish to play as them; console commands are a reliable method to so. The peculiarity is that Greece will rebel from Venice (Catholic) but not the Ottomans (Sunni), which is rather unexpected.

Ah, I see now. Are you playing this in 1399?

 

[Poppy Appletree]

Ah, I see now. Are you playing this in 1399?

I was planning to play another country briefly and "encourage" the Greeks to seek independence. I once saw Greece appear between 1405-1410 and besides the collapse of Byzantium I had no idea what would allow Greece to be a valid revolter state, but thought Greece would be great fun to play.

I think the issue here may be that Greek nationalists won't fire because there are no cores for Greece and Greece is set to be Christian, not Muslim. If this is the case, Greece wouldn't rebel out of the Ottomans, which makes the tag rather useless.

EDIT: Changing the Ottomans' state religion to Catholic doesn't change things, so it may be due to Athens being the potential Greek capital (I assume), nationalism being present on Byzantine cores within the country getting nationalists, or the Byzantine cores themselves. If it's the latter, Greece isn't viable because Byzantium won't lose its cores. (I wish there was an event which triggered when Byzantium was annexed and Constantinople was owned by another country which eliminated Byzantium.)

 

[unmerged(200028)]

I was planning to play another country briefly and "encourage" the Greeks to seek independence. I once saw Greece appear between 1405-1410 and besides the collapse of Byzantium I had no idea what would allow Greece to be a valid revolter state, but thought Greece would be great fun to play.

I think the issue here may be that Greek nationalists won't fire because there are no cores for Greece and Greece is set to be Christian, not Muslim. If this is the case, Greece wouldn't rebel out of the Ottomans, which makes the tag rather useless.

EDIT: Changing the Ottomans' state religion to Catholic doesn't change things, so it may be due to Athens being the potential Greek capital (I assume), nationalism being present on Byzantine cores within the country getting nationalists, or the Byzantine cores themselves. If it's the latter, Greece isn't viable because Byzantium won't lose its cores. (I wish there was an event which triggered when Byzantium was annexed and Constantinople was owned by another country which eliminated Byzantium.)

That is odd, especially when you consider that Greece historically did break off from the Ottoman Empire, I believe. Please check me on that one, though.

 

[unmerged(540854)]

I've had greece revolt in the Crimea once aswell so its not bound to Athens. Perhaps it needs to an eastern tech nation?

 

[Plasma Doctor]

I've seen Greece form rather nicely from the Ottomans, but it occured during the 1600s period and a Greek Morea eventually vassalized them. They seem to form better from greek patriots when there's greek states, since sometimes the nationlists spawn for Epirus or the other 'crusader states'.

 

[Kaazmodan]

I've had greece revolt in the Crimea once aswell so its not bound to Athens. Perhaps it needs to an eastern tech nation?

Greece revolting in Crimea is a quite common thing (or at least used to be). Mostly because its holder is usually the weakest holder of a Greek cultured province. By the time the Ottomans are weakened, Castille, France and England are often dividing up their territory among them.

 

[Shiranui]

Greece revolting in Crimea is a quite common thing (or at least used to be). Mostly because its holder is usually the weakest holder of a Greek cultured province. By the time the Ottomans are weakened, Castille, France and England are often dividing up their territory among them.

And Austria.

 

[diegosimeone]

Greece forms when no other Greek culture state is adjacent and you have a "patriot" revolution. There are a few exceptions when it does form while there's the random Epirus or Achaea or Naxos around.

The official Greek revolution began in Odessa in Ukraine, while there were preparations in the Peloponnese, Attica, Thesally-Macedonia-Thrace, Epirus, Pontus(south + east Black sea), Byzantium(aka Constantinople), the general coastal area in the the East Aegean as well as the islands (Aegean, Crete, Cyprus). There were even some sources claiming Alexandria as well but it was too weak to happen as the main army of the Ottomans was stationed in the south Mediterranean.

 

[Poppy Appletree]

That is odd, especially when you consider that Greece historically did break off from the Ottoman Empire, I believe. Please check me on that one, though.

That was my point. The revolter mechanics may be preventing Greece forming in a historical/historically plausible fashion. The problem is probably made greater by the fact that there are countries assigned to each of the Greek provinces outside of what the Ottomans start with, and due to the fact that these cores can't go away without the culture ceasing to be Greek, it seems like the game prevents Greece forming in a sensible fashion.

Greece forms when no other Greek culture state is adjacent and you have a "patriot" revolution. There are a few exceptions when it does form while there's the random Epirus or Achaea or Naxos around.

Greece forms from nationalists, not patriots. Patriots cannot give territory to a country that does not exist on the map.

 

[diegosimeone]

When I fund nationalists -> some people from a stateless core pop up
When I fund patriots -> Greece forms unless there's an adjacent Greek state

Trust me, I do this in EVERY GAME!

 

[Poppy Appletree]

When I fund nationalists -> some people from a stateless core pop up
When I fund patriots -> Greece forms unless there's an adjacent Greek state

Trust me, I do this in EVERY GAME!

What version of the game are you playing?

For the record, I tried exactly what you said; due to there not being any valid state for the patriots to give their territory to, they just hang around forever, and after 12 years they are still there. If you want me to believe that statement, you're going to have to provide proof.

 

[unmerged(540854)]

What version of the game are you playing?

For the record, I tried exactly what you said; due to there not being any valid state for the patriots to give their territory to, they just hang around forever, and after 12 years they are still there. If you want me to believe that statement, you're going to have to provide proof.

Have not tested this but I think diego is right. Hannover also forms from hannoverian patriots not nationalist. I think Nationalist only rise from a present core.

 

[Poppy Appletree]

Have not tested this but I think diego is right. Hannover also forms from hannoverian patriots not nationalist. I think Nationalist only rise from a present core.

Patriots don't cede territory to countries that are not on the map. If there is not a valid country remaining to give land to they just occupy territory, and if the country breaks they demand nothing. Nationalists don't only rise from present cores, as demonstrated by Greek nationalists popping up in Athens without Greek cores being present. If nationalists could only appear on cores cultural unity could exterminate tags and you'd never have to worry about nationalists again.