Great Powers Joining Wars

[Meridian235]

It's rare that I make a post complaining about game mechanics, but after having yet another ironman game ruined seemingly randomly, I need to know if I'm the only one who hates the new war alliance system.

My Hansa => Netherlands game was already going fairly poorly, as the Burgundian Inheritance fired early, and I was unable to take the needed dutch provinces to culture shift and form the Netherlands from Burgundy, and instead needed to turn on my ally Austria. Munster was my rival, and I figured a quick war for humilate/power projection would be a good idea. My allies England and Poland were not interested, but since Munster was diplomatically isolated, I figured I could make short work of them with 3-1 odds. Well not so fast. Austria allied them and joined the war on their side, crushing me and forcing me to release all my nations. Game over.

This is an unpredictable and not fun mechanic. What was wrong with the old system, and why was this random element introduced into the game?

 

[Sunspawn]

Seems that nations now don't have the "X is at war" malus for allying if the war is defensive is what's doing it - being actually able to call allies later in the war is how it's supposed to be.

Then again, since you turned of Austria, it's not surprising for them to intervene in your war to weaken you. Or at least that's logic, which AI doesn't really work too well with. Probably random chance.

 

[Meridian235]

If it was actually Austria doing that because I set them rival, I could get on board with that. Something tells me it would have happened either way though.

Another example is Tuscany Day 1 wardec on Anaconda being joined by Aragon, No rival needed there either.

 

[Viperswhip]

I think the AI won't join a war if your opponent is at -25% war score or lower, so you kind of got unlucky.

 

[bbqftw]

Maybe 60 day rule should remain, but make defensive alliances partners much more willing to enforce peace to get into wars?

 

[ringhloth]

Oh no. The AI was better than the game than you. Say what you will, that's a smart move for Austria to make. Releasing HRE countries means more IA.

 

[Meridian235]

Barring some evidence that this was a "smart play" by the AI, I'm going to assume I simply got screwed.

I'm all for smarter AI. But do we really believe it?

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

I was very worried about this change to the system when they announced it. I had flashes back to CK2 where I'd start wars I knew I could win, only to then have them marry one of their daughters to some Karling and bring in half a million men to crush me. At least in CK2 you don't lose any territory that way, just prestige and money usually.

In practice, it's not as frequent in EU4, though it is a lot more painful. The question is, why should those things even be possible? If something rarely happens, yet completely destroys someone when it does, that's generally not a very good mechanic in a strategy game.

 

[Yorkie-GBR]

The AI can and will join wars if it is in their interest to do so.

Its the same as calling in a AI ally now when you are winning the war, it just adds salts to the wound.

It also should be noted that you rivaled the Emperor and this almost guaranteeing their participation in the war one way or another.

 

[dstarsboy]

I posted a thread about this exact same issue that ruined my Mongol ironman. It's really frustrating when you put 4-5 hours of work into something and then, just like that, it gets screwed up by no fault of your own. Mine was worse because they allied 2 nations that they were just at war with and brought them in against me, making it even more illogical.

I'm guessing you were certain you had a CB on Munster? Austria would, of course, join them if you didn't.

There's definitely some work that needs to be done in the DoW mechanic area, although you can't say it's historically impossible for what happened to you to happen in real life (my situation would be less historically feasible).

Instead of trying to fix the DoW mechanic, they should make war defeats less devastating.

If you get sucked into a war by mistake against France, you actually CANNOT get out of it until you're all but completely thrashed and they always ask for 1/3rd of your empire in return. One simple mistake like this will often take you hours to get back, two or three of these will absolutely ruin you.

If I could get out of a war quickly and only lose a province or two and pay some money, I wouldn't consider my game ruined as much as it is now.

 

[Viperswhip]

I posted a thread about this exact same issue that ruined my Mongol ironman. It's really frustrating when you put 4-5 hours of work into something and then, just like that, it gets screwed up by no fault of your own. Mine was worse because they allied 2 nations that they were just at war with and brought them in against me, making it even more illogical.

I'm guessing you were certain you had a CB on Munster? Austria would, of course, join them if you didn't.

There's definitely some work that needs to be done in the DoW mechanic area, although you can't say it's historically impossible for what happened to you to happen in real life (my situation would be less historically feasible).

Instead of trying to fix the DoW mechanic, they should make war defeats less devastating.

If you get sucked into a war by mistake against France, you actually CANNOT get out of it until you're all but completely thrashed and they always ask for 1/3rd of your empire in return. One simple mistake like this will often take you hours to get back, two or three of these will absolutely ruin you.

If I could get out of a war quickly and only lose a province or two and pay some money, I wouldn't consider my game ruined as much as it is now.

War is horrible, but being reduced to 2/3 your former size, which has probably grown by several hundred percent shouldn't ruin your game unless you are going for a WC. You get 15 years to get your crap back together under the truce timers, the AI is not as cagey about working around that as human players, so what's the problem exactly? It should be seen as a challenge. If you don't want that then play Austria, France, Castile, the Ottos or England.

 

[Ulfing]

Barring some evidence that this was a "smart play" by the AI, I'm going to assume I simply got screwed.

I'm all for smarter AI. But do we really believe it?

I've actually seen this a few times - where I've been picking off smaller countries, then out of no where a large rival allies them to get in on the war. I'm hoping its intelligent A.I, because it is, that's great. The A.I's attacks have made sense - as in the OP, it makes sense for Austria to keep what sounds like a powerful Hansa in line - through any means.

 

[yerm]

It seems rather clear that the AI now can and will make an alliance solely with the intent of joining in on the war.

I understand and have felt frustrated by it, but on the same token, I really enjoy the risk that someone will call in the big guns and I need to deal with it. The game gets really stale when everything works out.