Great power intervention is a bit crazy right now

[Gratak]

This is more a problem of the ottomans being horribly ridiculously overpowered (and don't give me the "it's realistic" horsecrap, no it's not). Actually, that appears to be the problem in this thread for most people and also in my experience of this mechanic.

They are supposed to be horribly overpowered. How else would they have won wars against huge european coalitions. And they still expand a lot slower than they are supposed to.

The problem is just that the intervention system only works under the assumption that all Great Powers are about equal.

 

[Rusky]

Would it be possible if they made it where the Great Power Intervention was limited to something where you can only send 25% of your force in support for Offensive wars, and 50-75% support for Defensive ones?

 

[Gratak]

Would it be possible if they made it where the Great Power Intervention was limited to something where you can only send 25% of your force in support for Offensive wars, and 50-75% support for Defensive ones?

No. Or at least as offensive warleader, I want to be able to PREVENT anyone from joining me. Stupid PP thieves!!

 

[KubiG37]

This mechanic can even make your own defensive war WORSE, by AI helping you. France and someone else (GP, don't remember) attacked me as Great Britain, and while all I had to do was sink their silly navy and take all their colonies, Spain intervened on my side, lost the war immediately, and caused my warscore to go down horribly.

I had to end it as a white peace after having to sent ALL my armies and lot of mercs to help Spain with the French blob. Instead of easy "What do you want France? You're blocked" english war.

 

[Person012345]

They are supposed to be horribly overpowered. How else would they have won wars against huge european coalitions. And they still expand a lot slower than they are supposed to.

The problem is just that the intervention system only works under the assumption that all Great Powers are about equal.

Like I already said, don't give me the historical argument because it's BS. They could be toned down massively and still be able to beat large european coalitions ingame. I've seen them pull off incredibly anti-historical victories, even when they have been devastated by player-co-ordination in the early game and have failed to expand much and honestly, I don't care if it's realistic because ESPECIALLY with the way that the ottomans always seem to ally muscovy/russia in the latest patches, it makes playing as someone near them not-fun. And they don't expand properly because the AI sucks (and maybe because game mechanics don't encourage extremely rapid expansion).

 

[Benghi Bon]

This is more a problem of the ottomans being horribly ridiculously overpowered (and don't give me the "it's realistic" horsecrap, no it's not). Actually, that appears to be the problem in this thread for most people and also in my experience of this mechanic.

I agree that the Ottomans are brokenly OP, but not that they're the sole problem. I think the mere fact GPs can intervene like this is bad game design.

 

[Person012345]

I agree that the Ottomans are brokenly OP, but not that they're the sole problem. I think the mere fact GPs can intervene like this is bad game design.

I actually agree it's not a well thought out mechanic, I made a second post, after that one, saying so. I am just pointing out that the majority of people in this thread (and as has been my experience) primarily find this mechanic problematic once the ottomans just randomly decide to stick their nose in to a relatively even war for no reason. I do think that toning them down, whilst the mechanic would still be poorly thought out, would make it much less of a noticable problem in game (and would additionally fix some other issues I have had a problem with for a while).

 

[yerm]

Requiring a GP to be on the gangbanged side is totally silly. Let's add a mechanic that allows a GP to stand up to other GPs who gang up on nations, except not when it's most historically accurate and tactically necessary, not then no.

 

[Viperswhip]

I agree with the OP, I prefer the old system where after a certain amount of time or warscore nobody could join. However, normally by the time I am on the side that has more great powers on it, I like the world war aspect. As it stands its normally me and Burgundy against France and either Austria or Hungary to start, but after that first war, it's normally me against more great powers. I have great power allies to keep people from declaring against me, not as offensive allies. Now the OP had a the issue where people declared on him.

I'd like to see a malus of some sort for joining and offensive war as a Great Power.

 

[A_Dane]

Having thought about this, I cringe even more.. I can't really think of many situations where great power intervention worked like what's described. (I can see a case for it in regards to France's intervention in the thirty years war, but that's about it I can think of on top of my head). Not that more powerful nations didn't throw their weight around, like french and dutch interest in the Danish-Swedish war, but that was on a completely different scale, and can adequetely be represented by the already "threaten war" mechanic...

 

[Martynios]

I don't actually see why GP intervention is in the game. All historical examples are already covered by other mechanics.

 

[Yxklyx]

This problem becomes more problematic with all the PUs in the game. It's common to see a large nation having a PU over another large nation. The senior is a great power but the junior is not but would be if not under a union.

 

[Gratak]

This problem becomes more problematic with all the PUs in the game. It's common to see a large nation having a PU over another large nation. The senior is a great power but the junior is not but would be if not under a union.

How is that a problem? Parts of the juniors dev counts for the GP state of the senior.

 

[Yxklyx]

How is that a problem? Parts of the juniors dev counts for the GP state of the senior.

What I mean is that you have essentially two Great Powers being represented as one so a Great Power that is much more powerful than any other.

 

[Gratak]

What I mean is that you have essentially two Great Powers being represented as one so a Great Power that is much more powerful than any other.

Well the Ottomans are basically 3 GPs. Player can be like 20 GPs. No difference with PUs. The only thing that is "a problem" with someone being underrepresented is Austria. They usually do not become a GP for centuries despite being in the top 3 armies all the time.

 

[CoolSpin]

This mechanic can even make your own defensive war WORSE, by AI helping you. France and someone else (GP, don't remember) attacked me as Great Britain, and while all I had to do was sink their silly navy and take all their colonies, Spain intervened on my side, lost the war immediately, and caused my warscore to go down horribly.

I had to end it as a white peace after having to sent ALL my armies and lot of mercs to help Spain with the French blob. Instead of easy "What do you want France? You're blocked" english war.

Happened just to me last 24 hrs, except France op asf didn't even occupy, just squished, when i finally arrived they peaced out and i got squished. They didn't even occupy any Spanish territories and spain had pu over colonizing master portugal which they cancelled and spain turned hostile on ME!

 

[durbal]

Or how about this? I force Muscovy to break it alliance with the Ottomans when they entered a war guaranteeing Livonian Order. I attack Muscovy with Poland, and the Ottomans intervene on their side...derp. (To make it worse, they entered the war with only 10K manpower and their armies melted from attrition, giving them nothing but a few loans from the war).

 

[Gratak]

Or how about this? I force Muscovy to break it alliance with the Ottomans when they entered a war guaranteeing Livonian Order. I attack Muscovy with Poland, and the Ottomans intervene on their side...derp. (To make it worse, they entered the war with only 10K manpower and their armies melted from attrition, giving them nothing but a few loans from the war).

Well one thing about the intervention stuff is that you can rely on the AI entering wars they can. Even (or especially) if that's insane.

 

[Strompeta]

I think the trigger needed for intervine in a war with this mechanic would be 3GP vs 1GP or simply delete this diplomatic action, otherwise a balanced war like Spain, Portugal (GP) vs France and allies, could be broken by Ottomans entering war with France.

In my case, me and my allies (colonial nations included) have around 150k infantry, France, Bohemia, Brandenburg and allies were around 160k infantry, then Ottoman Empire joined the war with France, so they have now around 250k infantry, fairly unbalanced, now I know i will lost this war.

But not the first time in this match. Twice times I was called by Austria cause Im his ally, against some countries, Papal states, Genoa, Venice... It was an early war, and it was balanced, I sent my troops trough France, atm i had military access and +150 relations with them, but when I arrived Genoa, France joined the war as GP and I got my troops stuck in Genoa. I solved this situation by early white peace, but my ally get ass kicked the two times.

So, I was forced to broke my alliance with Austria.

I would like if anyone knows how to mod this... because this mechanic are ruining my game

 

[Gratak]

I think the trigger needed for intervine in a war with this mechanic would be 3GP vs 1GP or simply delete this diplomatic action, otherwise a balanced war like Spain, Portugal (GP) vs France and allies, could be broken by Ottomans entering war with France.

In my case, me and my allies (colonial nations included) have around 150k infantry, France, Bohemia, Brandenburg and allies were around 160k infantry, then Ottoman Empire joined the war with France, so they have now around 250k infantry, fairly unbalanced, now I know i will lost this war.

But not the first time in this match. Twice times I was called by Austria cause Im his ally, against some countries, Papal states, Genoa, Venice... It was an early war, and it was balanced, I sent my troops trough France, atm i had military access and +150 relations with them, but when I arrived Genoa, France joined the war as GP and I got my troops stuck in Genoa. I solved this situation by early white peace, but my ally get ass kicked the two times.

So, I was forced to broke my alliance with Austria.

I would like if anyone knows how to mod this... because this mechanic are ruining my game

Nah, that's no solution. Ottomans and player can easily take 3 great powers and still be a lot stronger.