Great power intervention is a bit crazy right now

[ahyangyi]

Playing as Athens, got independence, conquered Byzantium and one province from Karamans. Allied Poland and Spain. Everything looks about right.

Ottoman reached Mil Tech 6 and DoWed on me. Well, that's a terrible timing as all my allies are still Mil Tech 5. Anyway, we have numerical advantage.

France decided to intervene on the Ottoman's side. After some sieging and battles I and Poland lost some provinces to Ottoman's occupation, while France was basically pwned by Spain.

That's OK, I think. I'll just sign an early peace with France so Spain can turn its resources against Ottomans and I can turn the tide. And indeed France was so heavily beaten that it wants an individual peace even if Ottoman is winning warscore.

Then, right after France signs the peace, Muscovy, another great power, decides to intervene...

The moral of the story seems to never ally a low-ranked great power. While they are helpful, they are detrimental in that they create a "slot" for other GPs to intervene you. AND YOU SHOULD NOT SIGN EARLY PEACE WITH GREAT POWERS.

I'm not sure what's the design intention behind this. I already lose this game. But I want to know if the devs really meant "you should fight every war to 100% when there's great powers involved". That's basically a mini world war in 1460. Crazy.

 

[inreadible]

I might be wrong but I think the idea behind this is to prevent using great powers to handle your wars for you. It would make sense for them to be able to join only the defender side though.

 

[ahyangyi]

I might be wrong but I think the idea behind this is to prevent using great powers to handle your wars for you. It would make sense for them to be able to join only the defender side though.

The problem is that if you are somehow able to ally Ottomans, you can still abuse it crazily. I did it in my Armenia run. Starting as a vassal of QQ is actually a boon.
On the other hand, allying the No. 8 great power is often a liability. Allying the No. 9 power is safer though.

Things only became more non-linear. If the intention was to prevent using great power, I won't say they succeeded. They only made certain potential allies more desirable.

 

[Gratak]

Playing as Athens, got independence, conquered Byzantium and one province from Karamans. Allied Poland and Spain. Everything looks about right.

Ottoman reached Mil Tech 6 and DoWed on me. Well, that's a terrible timing as all my allies are still Mil Tech 5. Anyway, we have numerical advantage.

France decided to intervene on the Ottoman's side. After some sieging and battles I and Poland lost some provinces to Ottoman's occupation, while France was basically pwned by Spain.

That's OK, I think. I'll just sign an early peace with France so Spain can turn its resources against Ottomans and I can turn the tide. And indeed France was so heavily beaten that it wants an individual peace even if Ottoman is winning warscore.

Then, right after France signs the peace, Muscovy, another great power, decides to intervene...

The moral of the story seems to never ally a low-ranked great power. While they are helpful, they are detrimental in that they create a "slot" for other GPs to intervene you. AND YOU SHOULD NOT SIGN EARLY PEACE WITH GREAT POWERS.

I'm not sure what's the design intention behind this. I already lose this game. But I want to know if the devs really meant "you should fight every war to 100% when there's great powers involved". That's basically a mini world war in 1460. Crazy.

I would say this is a bug! A peaced out Great Power should still count to prevent intervention of further Great Powers. ESPECIALLY if that peaced out Great Power already itntervened.

 

[pedrito_elcabra]

It's not a bit crazy, it's absolutely nuts.

In addition to the above mentioned sillyness you can create total chaos by declaring war as a GP. Say you are a strong GP, maybe Ottos, and you wait until your target, a weak GP, is allied to another weak GP (or one that won't be able to bring much force to the front). For example Hungary allied to England. Now not only can you declare a war that you would have absolutely no trouble winning, but you also inmediately open up an opportunity for another GP to intervene on your side...

GP intervention badly needs some more sanity checks.

Not being able to join the winning side, period.
Not being able to join the attacker, unless warscore is < 25%
Being able to join the losing side even if there are equal number of GP as long as warscore is < 50%

 

[GamerGenc]

Seems like Medieval World War 1

I haven't got a DLC so I haven't got an idea

 

[durbal]

Great Power Intervention is all kinds of broken and needs a serious rework.

 

[Badesumofu]

I think it's great. It's another thing to plan for/around. It means you have to give serious thought to who you want to ally and when you want to call them in. It also creates a way for blobbing AIs to suddenly find themselves in over their heads since they don't seem to take interventions into account. It's a wildcard and I think the game needed more wildcards. But at the same time it has pretty clear rules that the player can work with.

 

[alphamikefox]

I don't know what the programming logic looks like that prevents both France and Muscovy from intervening at the same time and picks one over the other, but if such programming logic already exists then the simple solution to this problem: basically turn intervene in war into a call to arms function that pops for everyone eligible when the war is declared. Then you can't decide later that you want to intervene when one side or the other is already winning, you missed your opportunity

 

[OldmansHQ]

I don't know what the programming logic looks like that prevents both France and Muscovy from intervening at the same time and picks one over the other, but if such programming logic already exists then the simple solution to this problem: basically turn intervene in war into a call to arms function that pops for everyone eligible when the war is declared. Then you can't decide later that you want to intervene when one side or the other is already winning, you missed your opportunity

I don't like that. If countries can peace out while the war is still going, then they should also be join in late. It's something to cause interesting situations. But I recognise OPs problem, and I'd like if there was a rule that another GP can't intervene if one just peaced out. And perhaps some other rules like the minimum / maximum warscore thresholds needed to join on the offenders / defenders side.

 

[Gamengervi]

I never played Victoria II, so maybe I'm wrong on this, but if I'm correct there was a mechanic called 'crises' where major powers would intervene until one side gives in or, if they don't, it could lead to war. Maybe there could be something like that in EUIV. Like, for example, if a war starts and a great power is involved as an ally of an attacker or something, other powers could intervene. The results being either the intervening power gives in and things go on as normal, the attacking power gives in, or the intervening powers go to war.

Just some food for though.

 

[heroforhirerob]

Well...to be honest...intervention only occurs if the great powers on one side are unequal. OP had tried to stack the odds by adding two great powers to his side. Had the OP just allied Poland...no intervention would have occurred. Guess the lesson is choose your allies wisely.

 

[pedrito_elcabra]

Well...to be honest...intervention only occurs if the great powers on one side are unequal. OP had tried to stack the odds by adding two great powers to his side. Had the OP just allied Poland...no intervention would have occurred. Guess the lesson is choose your allies wisely.

Problem is, currently the system heavily favors strong GPs over weak ones. It doesn't really take into account if the sides are unequal, only the count of great powers. To the current system, Ottos with 200k army are considered inferior than Bohemia 40k + Hungary 40k, even if the turks are the agressors. So, more power to those countries already snowballed out of control, and a harder time for those B tier nations trying to catch up.

And of course as always players are rarely as affected as the AI, who does not seem to take interventions into account at all when choosing allies or declaring wars.

 

[bbqftw]

Ottomans pretty much break the GP intervention balance systems on VH, since they are easily enough to match 2-4 of the lower great powers.

 

[ahyangyi]

Well...to be honest...intervention only occurs if the great powers on one side are unequal. OP had tried to stack the odds by adding two great powers to his side. Had the OP just allied Poland...no intervention would have occurred. Guess the lesson is choose your allies wisely.

I object your notion that allying Spain was unwise. Spain was absolutely impressive. It beat France as well as maintained some sort of naval supremacy! What else can you expect?

Had I only allied Poland I'd be crushed even harder, obviously. There won't be the Russia intervening thing but there won't be any hope of winning that war anyway. I needed some buffer time for Poland to tech to MIL tech 6 and I myself simply won't provide that.

I won't blame that though, since the devs are not obliged to make Athens playable.

I personally think the 4/4/1 points for Casimir IV of Poland is a bit underwhelming though. Hey he was one of the best Polish kings, why give him an average score. Give him something like 5/5/2 or even 6/5/2 please. He might be militarily weak when compare to the Hunyadis, but who else didn't? That's another topic, though.

 

[Benghi Bon]

Great power intervention in on itself is an abhorrent inclusion into the game. Anti-fun, somewhat random and unpredictable (being in an """unbalanced""" war is no guarantee they will join in on the bumrush), and completely gamedestroying.

 

[Garak67]

It should be divided into two tiers for great powers. Only Great powers ranked 1-4 can intervene in each other wars, just like 5-8 only get that option for people around their rank. I know this is jumping the shark but there should also be some way to track 9-15 (Maybe call it rising powers).

As long as the nations are around similar development level it makes it more competitive. Getting steam rolled by the #1 or #2 when you're struggling to hold on to #8 is tiresome.

 

[Benghi Bon]

Great power intervention really shouldn't be a thing in the first place. It's ludicrous to get steamrolled by great power #1 even as #2. The difference can be utterly immense. The Ottomans can be twice as powerful as #1 compared to #2. An intervention is incredibly onesided in this frustrating, common situation.

 

[freedavebrown]

I find it very very very hard to believe that it is WAD that great powers can just "tag team" intervene when one of them gets peaced out.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well...to be honest...intervention only occurs if the great powers on one side are unequal. OP had tried to stack the odds by adding two great powers to his side. Had the OP just allied Poland...no intervention would have occurred. Guess the lesson is choose your allies wisely.

This isn't okay behavior: