In about 2350 it is not unreasonable to have citadels with 30k+ FleetPower. Put some 40-50k fleet beside it and squish anything short of an endgame crisis or FE.
Great Khan in 2.2
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In about 2350 it is not unreasonable to have citadels with 30k+ FleetPower. Put some 40-50k fleet beside it and squish anything short of an endgame crisis or FE.
I already had the best fleet in the galaxy with a combined power of about 30k and this couldn't deal with a single one of the Khans without suffering losses and retreating, let alone the 10 fleets that entered my systems one after another. If I should have had a 50k fleet to combat this I would have had to snowball even further beyond any other AI, which is where this problem arises. The AI empires can not deal with this threat and capitulate one by one and give the Khan additional auxiliaries which then compound the issue.
I also don't see how I could have made better citadels without being completely beyond the AI's capabilities, more than I already was at this point. I had just fought off the strongest alliance in the galaxy as you can see in warscore in the second photo. My citadels were at 15k strength with the closest AI being inferior in tech. If you are suggesting I should have used defense platforms, they are a complete waste of alloys right now and I would have been better off putting that towards more ships anyways, but I had already pretty much maxed my mineral/alloy expenses for my available planets (that green planet is Prophet's Retreat).
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The Khan is intended to snowball. If he can mob up a large chunk of the galaxy it should be hard to beat.
Defense Platforms might look like waste but are
a) relatively powerful
b) don't cause war exhaustion upon destruction
There's no reason why every playstyle and every empire should be able to beat any crisis. If it went the wrong way, being a tributary to the Khan or an AE isn't a deathsentence.
The key is to know roughly WHEN to mobilize large fleets. Usually you outpace any AI in 2250 at which point preparations for expanding and building fleets should start.
In 2300 you might have Battleships depending in your luck and 25-50 years later only the Crisis or AEs are a real threat.
My point is that the Khan should be powerful but not roll over every empire he moves on and use that to exponentially tear apart the galaxy. The AI on the second hardest difficulty should be a challenge beyond the first 50 years which it was in this game until this crisis hit and they fell one after another furthering the snowball of the Khan. I think this should be addressed regardless of how many min-maxers can outstrip the AI in 50 years. I increase the difficulty to enjoy the whole game, not just one or two features 200 years in.
Almost 2400 and you have six planets? That's the problem. Your economy simply cannot support a serious war. If the standard AI was competent you would be dead already.
Tall is meant to be viable and was in this game on Admiral up until the Khan hit. 2.2.3 AI isn't actually as bad as people say, they just have no clue how to snowball as well as most players can and so never attack because they are relatively weaker and know they will lose. This game was actually pretty fun being roughly equivalent in tech and power to most of my neighbours until I built the right fleet to counter them.
Really wish people would stop coming up with perfect strategies to min-max this game and assume that should be how everyone and the AI should play and saying it's broken when you win so hard. This is why the AI gets resource boosts, to compensate for your strategy that took hours of gameplay or theory crafting to come up with(if you didn't just borrow someone elses).
All of this is a bit beside the point of 10+ fleets that walk all over the AI and snowball one after another because they get a bunch of free 47% evasion 15k fleet power galleons per AI and send them all at the player at the same time.
Well then...The Khan is part of your enjoyment. If you do not minmax, give in and become a tributary until he dies and break free afterwards.
Anyhow, the Khan does not have to deal with the new economy. That's why. He just gets fleets and the second highest difficulty isn't a cakewalk either. If you wouldn't need to optimize there it would be pointless.
Playing suboptimal and hoping to beat a crisis would make high difficulty useless (no offense).
With "only" 6 colonies/planets in 2400 I'd not expect to beat anything but a normal AI empire unless I went tall AND optimized for that.
That is why there is also a crisis slider which I did not touch. I don't think the difference between the most powerful advance start AIs on Admiral difficulty and a mid-game crisis should be as extreme as you are suggesting.
If min-maxing makes every other AI empire pathetic I should increase the difficulty, which I did until I found one that I could play up until this "crisis" happened which rolled over the most powerful empires in the galaxy and got free overpowered ships from each one. This doesn't seem like great design or a consistent level of difficulty is all I'm suggesting here.
That is only because the AI is completely broken right now. After 2.1 advanced start AIs on max. difficulty usually crushed the Khan with ease if you used the default date.
There was a point after 2.0 when the Khan was truly epic though(that screenshot is 10 months old). I think they nerfed the event fleets at some point though.
In my new game I've also been caught in a bad position. From the looks of it I'm caught in a "planetary void". I've got more systems than any empire in the game, sole access to build up to 14% of all galactic systems and only 7 planets grand total. My other empires definitely had more to work with ...
So started new game
Life seeded, Grand Admiral, 4x crisis strength.
First 2 habitable planets i found were holy worlds...
Khan arrived and i had 50k fleet strength already. before he got near me i had pushed up to 120k
and he did take a about 50 systems before he fell apart just as i was heading in to attack.
its now 2343 and im running +346 alloy, +50 consumer, +136 food, +445 mineral, -30 energy
need to get a dyson sphere sorted for energy asap before endgame kicks
Life seeded, Grand Admiral, 4x crisis strength.
First 2 habitable planets i found were holy worlds...
Khan arrived and i had 50k fleet strength already. before he got near me i had pushed up to 120k
and he did take a about 50 systems before he fell apart just as i was heading in to attack.
its now 2343 and im running +346 alloy, +50 consumer, +136 food, +445 mineral, -30 energy
need to get a dyson sphere sorted for energy asap before endgame kicks
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You are right. The crisis shouldn't die within four-five years since spawning. That's just pathetic.
This is a strategy game. If your strategy didn't work because something was too powerful then restart and change strategy.
As for the AI, either play with Glavius mod or accept that it will be very, very, very bad.
I think some of us are over-thinking this. Since 2.2, we obviously don't have as much fleet power as quickly anymore. This is not worse or better, it's just how it is. The Khan can span as early 2300, so there would be no way stopping them now.
It is just a matter of balance that will be figured out soon. The previous fleet power of the Khan and the Marauder empires themselves was good for 2.0 and now it needs to be adjusted to the new pace of development. Making the Khan less powerful will make the Fallen Empires even more epic, so I am looking forward to what I expect to be a change soon.
It is just a matter of balance that will be figured out soon. The previous fleet power of the Khan and the Marauder empires themselves was good for 2.0 and now it needs to be adjusted to the new pace of development. Making the Khan less powerful will make the Fallen Empires even more epic, so I am looking forward to what I expect to be a change soon.
I managed to kill the Khan yesterday and got the achievement for it. It was my third try. first two attempts I was fanatic pacifist and had a 30k fleet of battleships by the time he appeared. the Khan was assassinated after I defeated him in battle.
This game I was a militant xenophile in a Federation with two other militant empires. The Khan spawned next to one of the Federation members. At that point another nearby empire joined the Federation and began churning out cruiser for the fed fleet. What saved me was that the bulk of the Khan's navy targeted my rival next to the federation member and the Khan himself attacked in my direction both times. It took some time, but with all 4 federation members contributing the fed fleet reached 390 fleet power and 50k strength. The Khan didn't stand a chance.
This game I was a militant xenophile in a Federation with two other militant empires. The Khan spawned next to one of the Federation members. At that point another nearby empire joined the Federation and began churning out cruiser for the fed fleet. What saved me was that the bulk of the Khan's navy targeted my rival next to the federation member and the Khan himself attacked in my direction both times. It took some time, but with all 4 federation members contributing the fed fleet reached 390 fleet power and 50k strength. The Khan didn't stand a chance.