Great DLC! - But the nex DLC/Patch needs to be about Warfare and Grand Strategy

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Meraun

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I really liked CK2 and i like CK3. But compared to EU IV or HoI4, the Warfare and Grand Strategy starts to fall behind seriously.
RP is great and CK3 is great at it. But the next Update/DLC has to seriously add to Warfare and Grand Strategy.

Also, the game should be come a bit harder.. Claims are just way too easy to get.
 
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CK3 is more a RPG with some strategy elements that doesn't really challenge the players. It's a bit of Medieval Sims.

For actual Grand Strategy, you have to play CK2.

I have made my peace with the fact that both games are different, even though they share the name and cover similar time periods.

Expect the next DLC to be about Kitchens and Food, or castle decoration.
 
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IMG_3700.jpeg


(I read the original title as a plea for a strategy mini game inside a strategy game.)
 
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They will get to warfare and diplomacy. When they do it will be from a roleplay and character-inclusive satisfying way. Much like moving the MaA OP bonuses from a strictly boring economic system they now rely on characters through your accolades for instance. The same will probably be true in the future.
 
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I really liked CK2 and i like CK3. But compared to EU IV or HoI4, the Warfare and Grand Strategy starts to fall behind seriously.
RP is great and CK3 is great at it. But the next Update/DLC has to seriously add to Warfare and Grand Strategy.

Also, the game should be come a bit harder.. Claims are just way too easy to get.

I completely agree and this has been asked for basically since release. Still one of the Devs said some days ago that he doesn't really see the need for higher difficulties and that it would be too much work. CK3 is the only game I know with only easy and normal difficulty and apparently the Devs still see no problem with that.

I feel like roleplaying and meme content has become such a big focus of the game that the grand strategy part has suffered a lot.

I really think that the part of the community which would appreciate more focus on the grand strategy part and optional higher difficulties isn't that small as some people here make it out to be. Games like Rimworld have shown that difficult games can be hugely successful so there definitely is a decent clientele.

A test of T&T by one of the biggest German PC magazines seems to go in this direction, too. Great game but too easy and unsatisfying grand strategy part. So we definitely aren't alone with our sentiments.
 
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SMiki Lorebringer

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I think they intend to touch upon warfare occasionally, in small batches – like they did with MAA stationing in recentmost update for example.

What's lacking most for me are more government variants, imperial and nomad being most crucial (republics would be nice too, but they'd need to be accompanied by trade mechanics). Groundwork for diarchs is already done, and since this year's flavour pack is Persia, I sincerely hope the next year's will be Byzantium, with imperial mechanics as a free update accompanying paid ERE content.
 
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I sincerely hope the next year's will be Byzantium, with imperial mechanics as a free update accompanying paid ERE content.
They have explicitly said that "imperial mechanics" is "too big for a flavour pack" – the release that provides Imperial mechanics will be in the "expansion pack" slot.
 
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CK3 is more a RPG with some strategy elements that doesn't really challenge the players. It's a bit of Medieval Sims.

For actual Grand Strategy, you have to play CK2.

I have made my peace with the fact that both games are different, even though they share the name and cover similar time periods.

Expect the next DLC to be about Kitchens and Food, or castle decoration.

I always find it hilarious when people post about CK3 being “Medieval Sims” (almost always meant as an insult - which reveals a perspective which is a whole other conversation) in contrast to CK2’s more “hardcore” nature - when the guy who created CK2 literally said the Sims was one of the the three central influences on CK2’s design (along with Game of Throne and 80s strategy games like Lords of Midnight).
 
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Wokeg

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I really liked CK2 and i like CK3. But compared to EU IV or HoI4, the Warfare and Grand Strategy starts to fall behind seriously.
RP is great and CK3 is great at it. But the next Update/DLC has to seriously add to Warfare and Grand Strategy.

Also, the game should be come a bit harder.. Claims are just way too easy to get.
Agree with OP that I’d like to see some more systemic/mechanical DLCs from here on in.
We've certainly focused quite a lot on some of the more lateral elements of the franchise with the two expansions so far, and I would strongly expect us to look at doing some more traditional content in future. I'm not going to promise you warfare specifically, I'm afraid, but I think the sentiment over here is that we've definitely spent enough time on trying to flesh out the personal lives of rulers and ruled now - it's high time to change tack and focus on something else. :) Sorry if that's irritatingly vague, but I think my lead would have me skinned alive if I started dropping hints about the types of things we're looking at next literally the day after we drop an expansion.

Difficulty is certainly something we're hoping to work on over the next few releases - we've done a bit of that this update, got some more stuff in the pipeline (some very short term, some more mid/long term), and some things that are just at the (very very no promises) proposal stage.
I completely agree and this has been asked for basically since release. Still one of the Devs said some days ago that he doesn't really see the need for higher difficulties and that it would be too much work. CK3 is the only game I know with only easy and normal difficulty and apparently the Devs still see no problem with that.
Mmmm, not really what I said, I'm afraid, so I'll go ahead and quote myself for context to anyone just reading this comment:
We do hear the request for higher difficulty levels intermittently, and though there's a few people on the team who'd like such, personally, I'm really not a fan. Invariably they'd just be giving random bonuses to the AI & maluses to the player - that's all the easy difficulties do atm. And tbh, that feels like a cop-out. It's not really making the title harder, it's stacking weights on the backs of players.

Which, y'know, might sound fine, why not let people opt in to that if they want to? The answer there is because nothing else in the title accounts for that: costs are not designed to be variable in that way, systems are not designed to account for those types of sliding brackets, the AI isn't set up to cope with that level of variability. Some costs'd get dialled up, and in exchange, some parts of the title would likely break, some would quietly bork their balance in a way that's basically invisible to anything but dedicated playtesting in that specific area, some would kinda work but feel wrong, and so on. We'd be giving you a button to break your game labelled "harder difficulty" and then shrugging our shoulders at you when you press it and it breaks your game but doesn't necessarily make anything all that much harder.

Of course, we could sit down and rejig things till that's not the case. Definitely not impossible, not even technically, but it's a lot of potential work to both make and maintain forever. That work doesn't come out of nowhere, it's an opportunity cost that we do instead of other things. Do we put 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 8 months worth of development delay in before the next DLC so that we can add that game rule and have it meaningfully do something rather than be a placebo that's also a secret mild poison? What do we get out of that? What does the playerbase get out of that, including the harder difficulty fans, who I suspect have other things they would prefer ahead of said game rule?

Turning difficulty down is easy. We turn some things off, we reduce some negative modifiers on the player that new players won't have headspace to grok straight away. Turning difficult up in a meaningful way is disproportionately hard.

Ok, that's a lot of doom'n'gloom, and I didn't really mean to dump on you. So, to try for a bit of positivity, the type of difficulty I would like to see added to the title is meaningful friction, meaningful setbacks, and better AI. These are all much harder to do, both to actually make and to get dev time for, than small tweaks, but various team members are working on 'em. I'd like to see more ways for characters to die unexpectedly. I'd like to see ever-tighter war AI & more difficulty for the player wrangling their armies in war. I'd like to see the AI get better at the economy so that player snowballing is less of an issue, because the AI is snowballing alongside you. I'd like to see more nuance to factions and ways for them to destabilise your realm. I'd like to see ways to break up blobbing that don't make people ragequit. We've done some work on some of these for this release, some for upcoming patches, some are planned for the future, and some are just glorious dreams that I drunkenly ramble about at work drinks to anyone who can't find somewhere else to sit. To me, this stuff is difficulty, and it's a much better use of time than us chasing a working set of difficulty modifiers.

:) Just my two pennies.
If that's not the type of content you'd like, then we will have to agree to disagree on difficulty after all, but I can't really agree with claiming that I said it's fine for everything to be a cake-walk and that we intend to only support that forever.
I always find it hilarious when people post about CK3 being “Medieval Sims” (almost always meant as an insult - which reveals a perspective which is a whole other conversation) in contrast to CK2’s more “hardcore” nature - when the guy who created CK2 literally said the Sims was one of the the three central influences on CK2’s design (along with Game of Throne and 80s strategy games like Lords of Midnight).
Said and continues to say, at least at last check, FWIW. He's the chief creative officer at PDS these days, sorta equivalent to the game directors' director.
 
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WestuHal

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We've certainly focused quite a lot on some of the more lateral elements of the franchise with the two expansions so far, and I would strongly expect us to look at doing some more traditional content in future. I'm not going to promise you warfare specifically, I'm afraid, but I think the sentiment over here is that we've definitely spent enough time on trying to flesh out the personal lives of rulers and ruled now - it's high time to change tack and focus on something else. :) Sorry if that's irritatingly vague, but I think my lead would have me skinned alive if I started dropping hints about the types of things we're looking at next literally the day after we drop an expansion.

Difficulty is certainly something we're hoping to work on over the next few releases - we've done a bit of that this update, got some more stuff in the pipeline (some very short term, some more mid/long term), and some things that are just at the (very very no promises) proposal stage.

Mmmm, not really what I said, I'm afraid, so I'll go ahead and quote myself for context to anyone just reading this comment:

If that's not the type of content you'd like, then we will have to agree to disagree on difficulty after all, but I can't really agree with claiming that I said it's fine for everything to be a cake-walk and that we intend to only support that forever.

Said and continues to say, at least at last check, FWIW. He's the chief creative officer at PDS these days, sorta equivalent to the game directors' director.
Exciting stuff - with ToTo CK3 already feels like a different game in a lot of respects so I’m looking forward to seeing what comes next once the devs have had some well-earned R&R. Here’s hoping for expanded religion and council/laws mechanics leading to greater friction within and without the realm (and coronations to tide us over in the meantime!).
 
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...the type of difficulty I would like to see added to the title is meaningful friction, meaningful setbacks, and better AI. These are all much harder to do, both to actually make and to get dev time for, than small tweaks, but various team members are working on 'em. I'd like to see more ways for characters to die unexpectedly. I'd like to see ever-tighter war AI & more difficulty for the player wrangling their armies in war. I'd like to see the AI get better at the economy so that player snowballing is less of an issue, because the AI is snowballing alongside you. I'd like to see more nuance to factions and ways for them to destabilise your realm. I'd like to see ways to break up blobbing that don't make people ragequit. We've done some work on some of these for this release, some for upcoming patches, some are planned for the future, and some are just glorious dreams that I drunkenly ramble about at work drinks to anyone who can't find somewhere else to sit. To me, this stuff is difficulty, and it's a much better use of time than us chasing a working set of difficulty modifiers.

Love to hear this. I've posted a few times that I think that a lot of the talk of CK3 needing "more difficulty" around here is, when you get into it, actually a feeling that the game needs "more friction/setbacks" - basically that CK3 is currently a bit too "plain sailing".

CK2 wasn't particularly difficult - but with your characters and heirs randomly dying and forcing you to play as your fourth-born failson or scrabble around trying to find an heir of your dynasty at all (and other stuff like that), getting from A to B in CK2 felt more of a struggle because the game threw random bits of friction or obstacles or setbacks or whatever you want to call them in your way.

I'm glad that's a view represented amongst the devs too.
 
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I think a focus on trade & republics could be very great, specificaly with the new travelling system, i really want to see caravans of merchants coming through the silk way.

Also giving more importance on trade on a county / duchy / kingdom / empire wealth, it should not be limited to republics.

As an example, trade was very important for the Byzantine Empire.
 
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'Ciusi

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I always find it hilarious when people post about CK3 being “Medieval Sims” (almost always meant as an insult - which reveals a perspective which is a whole other conversation) in contrast to CK2’s more “hardcore” nature - when the guy who created CK2 literally said the Sims was one of the the three central influences on CK2’s design (along with Game of Throne and 80s strategy games like Lords of Midnight).
But there's a big difference between being inspired by The Sims (and other things) and becoming more or less equivalent to The Sims. CK2 was also inspired by The Sims and had many of "The Sims elements", but it was balanced with other elements. In CK3, these "The Sims elements" far outweigh the rest of the gameplay, and the fact that the first two DLCs were almost exclusively devoted to these elements doesn't help. I'm glad that even the developers are acknowledging this and I'm very curious to see what they'll present us with next year. Personally, I think what we need most is a major overhaul of the government and laws so that politics can play a much bigger role. Apart from alliances, politics is basically a non-existent element in the game now.
 
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SMiki Lorebringer

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They have explicitly said that "imperial mechanics" is "too big for a flavour pack" – the release that provides Imperial mechanics will be in the "expansion pack" slot.
TIL, thank you.

I wonder what expansion would it be then, however – imperial gov feels like an ideal companion for a Byzantine pack, but Byzantium alone wouldn't be a focus of an expansion -- iirc expansions are intended to expand upon the whole game world, not just a specific region. Imperial gov would be available elsewhere outside ERE ofc, but I don't think they'd make the gov itself non-free (as opposed to republics, as they are already unplayable as opposed to Byzantium and other empires, so it makes sense if republics are made playable only after purchasing a republic expansion)
 

johnty5

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But there's a big difference between being inspired by The Sims (and other things) and becoming more or less equivalent to The Sims.

This is a very silly thing to say and I don't actually believe that you think it.

CK2 was also inspired by The Sims and had many of "The Sims elements", but it was balanced with other elements. In CK3, these "The Sims elements" far outweigh the rest of the gameplay, and the fact that the first two DLCs were almost exclusively devoted to these elements doesn't help. I'm glad that even the developers are acknowledging this and I'm very curious to see what they'll present us with next year. Personally, I think what we need most is a major overhaul of the government and laws so that politics can play a much bigger role. Apart from alliances, politics is basically a non-existent element in the game now.

I agree that I'd like to see laws and government as one of the priorities for upcoming expansions (especially Council mechanics).
 
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