Great demo. Too bad culture is a joke

[Riotkiller]

I'd rather poke sharp sticks in my eyes than play multiplayer with people who only play to beat all the other players anyway.

 

[Jia Xu]

I'd rather poke sharp sticks in my eyes than play multiplayer with people who only play to beat all the other players anyway.

That's fine. I can totally respect roleplayers who play the game with one arm tied behind their backs for immersion. I've done that myself before. However, you can't expect public games to be solely played this way. People are going to play to win.

 

[Riotkiller]

I don't roleplay, but I don't aim to just conquer the world either. I play to just enjoy it. I do dabble in multiplayer with some friends, but we tend to pick rather smaller countries and not ones that are right next to each other so we can play how we like early on. That way we get a nice challenge out of it and don't just aim to crush each other on day one. I just don't see the replayability in that.

 

[alanschu]

Oh, it absolutely is a huge leap. It's a leap from something that was simply never said to something that was. That's pretty huge from what I can see. He was attempting to convince me in my topic. Therefore I asked him to objectively make his case. That's it. Any secret message you take away from that is entirely the invention of one's imagination.

What you're doing now is called "misdirection." Which is also what you did when you tried to defend yourself from the Spain allegation. You completely missed the point that it was to look at a larger scale conquest, and were dismissive (and rude about it) because of your failure to actually understand what was being suggested.

If you can't hold yourself to the same standards, and are dismissive of other people because their posts are "subjective," then you're now being a hypocrite. Because either you acknowledge that your own posts are subjective, or that you believe you were being objective in your reasoning. It's absurd to require someone have an objective rebuttal to your subjective assessment. You're holding him to a standard beyond yours.

Further, simply because you place the word "whine" in quotation marks, doesn't actually change the insinuation that his strategy will result in him suffering from defeat early within 25 years of a MP game. Adding smilies afterwards gives a GREATER indication of you being petulant about it.

Why don't you try taking the "objectively right" statement and put it into context. You know, respond to something honesty.

You mean the context of you clearly misunderstanding Peter's point, and then challenging him on the basis of something he wasn't actually doing? You greatly inferred his lack of understanding of MP mechanics when you stated that his understanding would result in his defeat within 25 years. You're getting caught up in semantics simply because Peter said that he inferred you were referring to him as an MP noob. Which is also the way I understood your criticism of his response.

No, you didn't straight up call him a "noob." Given that, your statement comes across as an insult. And if you didn't mean to, that DOESN'T MEAN IT IS ACTUALLY OUR FAULT. I'm guessing there's a language barrier thing going on at this point, because honestly you've been exceptionally rude and condescending to other people, but seem to completely fail at realizing it. Your inclusion of a lot of smilies in your posts, however, leads me to think that you aren't.


In the interests of being honest, here, however... would you say that your assessment of the culture conversion is objective, or subjective? Since we're all evidently incorrect in assuming that, my assumption now is that you acknowledge that you are also subjective. Which means I don't understand why you'd require someone to be objective (and dismissive when they're subjective) in response.

 

[Jia Xu]

What you're doing now is called "misdirection." Which is also what you did when you tried to defend yourself from the Spain allegation. You completely missed the point that it was to look at a larger scale conquest, and were dismissive (and rude about it) because of your failure to actually understand what was being suggested. If you can't hold yourself to the same standards, and are dismissive of other people because their posts are "subjective," then you're now being a hypocrite. Because either you acknowledge that your own posts are subjective, or that you believe you were being objective in your reasoning. Further, simply because you place the word "whine" in quotation marks, doesn't actually change the insinuation that his strategy will result in him suffering from defeat early within 25 years of a MP game. Adding smilies afterwards gives a GREATER indication of you being petulant about it. You mean the context of you clearly misunderstanding Peter's point, and then challenging him on the basis of something he wasn't actually doing? You greatly inferred his lack of understanding of MP mechanics when you stated that his understanding would result in his defeat within 25 years. You're getting caught up in semantics simply because Peter said that he inferred you were referring to him as an MP noob. Which is also the way I understood your criticism of his response. No, you didn't straight up call him a "noob." Given that, your statement comes across as an insult. And if you didn't mean to, that DOESN'T MEAN IT IS ACTUALLY OUR FAULT. I'm guessing there's a language barrier thing going on at this point, because honestly you've been exceptionally rude and condescending to other people, but seem to completely fail at realizing it. Your inclusion of a lot of smilies in your posts, however, leads me to think that you aren't. In the interests of being honest, here, however... would you say that your assessment of the culture conversion is objective, or subjective? Since we're all evidently incorrect in assuming that, my assumption now is that you acknowledge that you are also subjective. Which means I don't understand why you'd require someone to be objective (and dismissive when they're subjective) in response.

You can't even keep your story straight. Am I misdirecting people or am I simply failing to understand? It would be hard to masterfully manipulate people without understanding what I'm doing here, eh? Yeah, I can tell you thought that one through. You have a gigantic paragraph where you "whine" about me. Zero substance. "Whine" is in quotes because it's the word he used. I only used it because he did. He used it to dismiss posts that he couldn't respond to honestly. I asked him later on if he enjoyed the taste of his own medicine but he seemed to have lost his voice at that point in time. HMM...!

When you concede that I didn't call anyone "noob" you concede that he right out lied about it. The only thing anyone has to be faulted for is their own actions. Actions like blatantly lying about what another person says. The "condescension" you're seeing here is also imagined, unfortunately. Smilies being a secret spite message is also another fabrication of the mind. You're seeing messages that simply do not exist. Instead of responding to what you think I'm saying in your imagination, please just respond to what I actually say. Thanks! (<---That happy face is not a secret spite message, so don't bother spending time trying to decode it as such.)

My assessment of the situation is of course subjective and I said as much when I mentioned multiple times that I'm speaking from my own personal experiences only. Please read a topic before you respond to it. Thank you!

 

[Slargos]

Ass-burger? :unsure:

 

[Danny-Dynamita]

A demo that it's clearly stated as an outdated version of the game, and that doesn't even have any difficulty options... Seriously guys, can you turn on your brains for a moment?

 

[Merrivale]

Jia Xu, I haven't seen anyone in these nine pages come to your defense in the personal back-and-forth you've been having with multiple people, despite several people (including me), agreeing that it's too cheap for Portugal to culture-flip Morocco (now I think the reason why is not because culture flipping in general is too cheap but because Morocco is wrongly considered overseas).

So either we all have it in for you, even though some of us agree with you, or you're in the wrong here. I will grant you that the first response in this thread was condescending and rude. But otherwise you've set the tone here.

 

[Jia Xu]

A demo that it's clearly stated as an outdated version of the game, and that doesn't even have any difficulty options... Seriously guys, can you turn on your brains for a moment?

Well, that's a good point. The game could launch on Tuesday and the patch notes could show us a really different game. To be fair, I did mention the demo in the title. I'm only judging the demo on its own merits.

 

[Jia Xu]

Jia Xu, I haven't seen anyone in these nine pages come to your defense in the personal back-and-forth you've been having with multiple people, despite several people (including me), agreeing that it's too cheap for Portugal to culture-flip Morocco (now I think the reason why is not because culture flipping in general is too cheap but because Morocco is wrongly considered overseas). So either we all have it in for you, even though some of us agree with you, or you're in the wrong here. I will grant you that the first response in this thread was condescending and rude. But otherwise you've set the tone here.

I should certainly hope that you haven't seen that. I find it really awkward when people try to play mother for others on the internet. I can either defend my own points myself or I can't. My points either have merit or they don't. It's not a democracy. Ten people shouting 2+2=5 doesn't make the claim itself more valid just because of the volume of people who are shouting it. If you find yourself uncomfortable in my topic, then don't post in it. Please do not post in this topic just to pretend that I'm holding you hostage here. If you click on my topic, it's because you want to hear what I have to say. You can't have it both ways.

 

[DominusNovus]

Long thread. Has anyone pointed out the economic benefit of proper culture provinces helping to finance better advisors, thus enabling you to recoup your DIP costs quicker?

 

[Merrivale]

I should certainly hope that you haven't seen that. I find it really awkward when people try to play mother for others on the internet. I can either defend my own points myself or I can't. My points either have merit or they don't. It's not a democracy. Ten people shouting 2+2=5 doesn't make the claim itself more valid just because of the volume of people who are shouting it. If you find yourself uncomfortable in my topic, then don't post in it. Please do not post in this topic just to pretend that I'm holding you hostage here. If you click on my topic, it's because you want to hear what I have to say. You can't have it both ways.

Well I can't say I'm surprised. I don't disagree that majority doesn't make right, but the fact that no one is agreeing with your take on all of the personal stuff in this thread is telling. It's not a case of a majority, it's a case of no one. As to "your topic", you started the thread but you don't own it, I'm reading most of the threads here to learn as much as I can about the game. I'll take your suggestion and start a new topic focusing on the issue you've brought to light and hopefully we can actually discuss it there instead of pulling out tape measures.

 

[unmerged(242259)]

Is there a way to turn conversion and assimilation off?

 

[Belissarius]

Not everyone registers all the games they own

also not everyone displays the games they register either.

 

[Jia Xu]

Well I can't say I'm surprised. I don't disagree that majority doesn't make right, but the fact that no one is agreeing with your take on all of the personal stuff in this thread is telling. It's not a case of a majority, it's a case of no one. As to "your topic", you started the thread but you don't own it, I'm reading most of the threads here to learn as much as I can about the game. I'll take your suggestion and start a new topic focusing on the issue you've brought to light and hopefully we can actually discuss it there instead of pulling out tape measures.

Telling of what? That I don't have any flamers who will come into topics to attack the people who happen to be disagreeing with me? That's a very good thing. If people were coming to this topic to flame the people I disagreed with, I would feel embarrassed. Thank you for having the class to leave a topic you feel you don't belong in rather than throwing a tantrum at me. You're setting a good example and I appreciate it.

Is there a way to turn conversion and assimilation off?

They're in the UI, so maybe not. What you can probably do is mod the requirements to use them into something unachievable, effectively disabling them.

 

[drewbc32]

Hmm... Perhaps a solution would be to keep culture conversion rates the same as they were in EU3 (a rare surprise), unless there is no existing independent nation of that culture group. Only then should the rates be as swift as they are now. This is enough to satisfy me.

(On a separate note, this is only a demo. For all we know, paradox could've have set the rates as they are now to see the public response, and made it ten times slower upon release. All we can really do is wait and see. :happy: )

 

[Belissarius]

I should certainly hope that you haven't seen that. I find it really awkward when people try to play mother for others on the internet. I can either defend my own points myself or I can't. My points either have merit or they don't. It's not a democracy. Ten people shouting 2+2=5 doesn't make the claim itself more valid just because of the volume of people who are shouting it. If you find yourself uncomfortable in my topic, then don't post in it. Please do not post in this topic just to pretend that I'm holding you hostage here. If you click on my topic, it's because you want to hear what I have to say. You can't have it both ways.

After this post i'm pretty sure Jia Xu has decided to troll. Whether this was his intent to start with it seems clear he's trying to goad people now.

 

[[Geden]Whitey]

*looks through some of the "personal" discussion* .. not getting into that...

But anyways have to agree with Peter on the cost - though the time it takes to convert still seems a little to fast (seen from a "historical and "realistic viewpoint").

And at least north africa + asia shouldn't count as overseas for this purpose (with nothing but thought simoulations to support this xD)

Whitey - with nothing deep to say... Just wanted to comment and say - "Yay Peter epic argument with spain"

 

[a4rino]

I feel like someone could write an entire textbook on logical fallacies using only Jia Xu's posts as the examples.

 

[Chiro]

It is. You get these new groups like what, once every 50 years. In that amount of time, I would have build a gigantic empire at the pace I was going at. This is a valid point, it's just that it doesn't seem like a fair trade upon closer inspection.

No, Administration level 10 already supplies you with three idea groups.
In the 20 years I played Portugal I got two idea groups.