Great demo. Too bad culture is a joke

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Kadanz

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Eu4 needs another 2 years full of patches, expansions, and features to be fun. Also needs more cultures and more religions. PI can never make a complete game, it always had to lack even the simplest things

How do you know? You're not having more than 2 paradox games registered and both of them are HoI 2 related. Which means you don't own any other Pdox games.

I spotted a troll...
 

ParadogsGamer

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Was converting Morocco that cheap because it was counted as overseas from Portugal? If so then the problem is not culture conversion but the overseas mechanic. Either Morocco should not be counted as overseas from Portugal or being overseas should not give as large bonus to culture conversion.
This is a good point.
In fact, the Sahara desert is a much greater barrier then the Mediterranean Sea. Thus it would make sense to count North Africa as part of Europe, rather than Africa for this purpose.
 

grommile

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Culture and religion conversion indeed makes this game feel like a fantasy game. Felt like evicting orcs and migrating in elves in Age of Wonders. Push a couple buttons and it's done in a couple of years. Whole Balkans will be Sunni Muslim in half a century at most.
You can convert all of the Balkans proper within the span of the demo.
 

Nimic

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This isn't even a well thought out example. Portugal can become Spain, which would give Castillian provinces no malice anyway, because of the union bonus. No, no, I'd rather just smash countries in other tech groups that don't seem to be capable of defending themselves against the lone military might of Portugal and blob up until I can start conquering countries like Naples. Please don't "whine" when you get annexed in MP in the first 25 years of the game. Thanks. :)

Don't worry.

I won't worry or whine when I get annexed in MP in the first 25 years of the game. :D

This exchange became a lot more fun when I realized who Jia Xu the multiplayer hero was arguing with. Peter Ebbesen sure is a newbie.

Kids these days...
 

unmerged(755241)

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As portugal culture/religion was very easy and no brainer.
As Ottoman I got about 650 score and I could barely convert half of the remaining starting religion to sunni. I was focusing on piety. Culture costing 120 per province and wanting to get to lvl 7 admin tech, I could only muster 3 culture flips during the demo. Even then I couldn't do everything I wanted to do. Only boosted stability once from -1. For me, the fact that I was limited is great and I was sad when game ended.

I can only imagine world conquest being hell with all the revolts and overextension everywhere. It certainly won't need a buff.
 

lowdias

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Core creation should be more expensive and take longer, religious conversion should be as expensive as a colony meaning large base tax provinces would be REALLY expensive to convert and culture conversion of a high base tax province should cost more or less like a tech.
 

unmerged(616751)

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You're the one being rude here. Instead of addressing my points, you're only posting to attack me, personally. Bye-bye.

You don't have to insult someone to be rude.
 

Jia Xu

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Damn, I hate when my opinions and my game-play arguments based on game mechanics in favour of those opinions based on my experiences are reduced to "a very subjective view" by somebody who considers his own opinions and arguments based on his own experiences to be "objective reasoning". I guess I will have to give in and bow to such a superior line of reasoning.

Here you put "objective reasoning" in quotes as if I had said that about my posts at any time. I'm done being polite about it. You are lying. The things you put into quotations about my posts just simply never happen. You are blatantly lying through your teeth in regard to the content of my posts because you refuse to address any point I make that you have no response to. The next time you do this, I'm going to politely request that you leave my nice topic. (<--- feel free to twist that into "Jia Xu has committed battery and assault against me!" if you like.) Other people in this topic have demonstrated the capacity to disagree with me without re-writing my posts. Learn from their good example. Don't take this the wrong way either. I don't want you to leave if you are still interested in discussing this, but your continual dishonesty about what I'm posting has to stop. Do not use quotation marks if you don't understand how to use them. Thank you for your consideration. ;)

Here is something for those people who happen NOT to be the man with the superior line of reasoning, who knows everything there is to know about manpower because of his EU3 MP experience, to think about. The manpower provided by a province is based on its base manpower, its base factor, and buildings providing a fixed boost, which is then modified by provincial percentage modifiers. Wrong culture gives a -33% modifier to manpower. As I noted in post 75, this is additive, not multiplicative. Other relevant modifiers for somebody playing Muscowy would be the following: Russian Traditions +25% (you get this from the start) Russian Ambitions +100% (you get this as soon as you have 21 ideas, which can be accomplished with 3 full idea groups) Thus, completely disregarding other provincial manpower modifiers such as from the Offensive idea group (+25%), the Aristocratic idea group (+25%), and the Quantity idea group (+50%), and assuming that none of the higher tier army buildings are built (tier 4+ increases the local manpower modifier, up to a total of +70%), any Muscowy that is out of the early game is rocking a base of 225% manpower in every single core province before culture is calculated into the mix. Which means that the difference made by the culture to manpower is the difference between gaining 192% of base manpower and 225% of base manpower. Yes, the later is better than the former, but it really is not all that big a deal, and especially not when compared to e.g. dumping DMP into exploration/expansion and getting more provinces providing manpower in the first place. But overall, even without any of the huge benefits Muscowy gets, even if it is 67% vs 100% (something that is never the case for Muscowy, which cannot go below 92% vs 125%), in Eu4, huge increases to manpower are gained by controlling vast amounts of territory (yes, certainly, conquering Lithuania for the manpower is a fine idea) and spamming them with cheap military buildings or by choosing the proper idea groups. Overall, culture conversion plays little part, and for Muscowy in particular the idea that mass cultural conversion provides a significant boost to manpower is a joke. If you really must do it, do it in conquered provinces that have a low base tax and a high base manpower to get the most bang for the buck, but even then, you would probably have been better off in both the long and short run spending the DMPs on other pursuits unless you get exceptionally good DIP monarchs and thus have more than enough to spare.

Great post. It would be even greater if it tried to address anything I said instead of just demonstrating your epic copy-pasting skills from the text files we all have access to now! :D Have you ever fought a human run Super-Russia in EU3? It's not pretty and it requires the Russia player to stack manpower and force limits. Navy doesn't mean anything because at worse you have to deal with all five of your ports being blockaded. If you leave Super-Russia alone, then the player controlling it just rolls in every direction from Poland to China. The longer you leave it alone, the worse it gets. My last game was as the Ottomans and we needed all of the other human players (which was Austria, France, and Britain) to fight it on equal grounds. The 5.2 beta made is very painfully obvious that the country who runs out of man power first is going to be ruined when the peace deal arrives. You can go on believing that multiplayer is going to be won by the player who has the most temples, if you like. I'll stick to manpower, thank you very, very much.
 

Chamboozer

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It's not THAT ahistorical.
Just look at the whole adriatic coast, or Anatolia, even Granada.

And which of these were completely transformed over the course of even a few decades?

Conversion at the rate it occurs in EUIV is unrealistic. In my opinion we should be able to set policies toward various nationalities which have long-term effects, rather than using monarch points or agents. And we certainly shouldn't be able to convert as fast as we can now.
 

unmerged(616751)

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(<--- feel free to twist that into "Jia Xu has committed battery and assault against me!" if you like.)

You mean like you did, when you accused Fjoelsvider of "personally" attacking you?
 

Riotkiller

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The most simple solution to the too-low culture cost appears to be; instead of marking provinces as "Overseas"... instead marking them by continent. And only having North and South America be 25% of the costs to convert.

That way, North Africa and Asia are realistically difficult to convert, while the (I expect) intended targets of easy conversion can be converted still.
 

unmerged(616751)

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How else would you describe a post which contains nothing other than shots at me? Do tell.

Maybe you should, because I see nothing consistent with a personal attack in that post.
 

Jia Xu

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Maybe you should, because I see nothing consistent with a personal attack in that post.

He came into a topic just to insult me by calling me rude for defending myself against a guy who was blatantly lying about the content of my posts. When you come into a topic for no other reason than to insult someone, that constitutes a "personal attack" as far as I can see. Do you want to get on topic and talk about culture with me, or are you done here?
 

alanschu

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Here you put "objective reasoning" in quotes as if I had said that about my posts at any time. I'm done being polite about it. You are lying.

Well, when you say this:
So I asked you for objective reasoning and what I got for my troubles was "I consider." Your very subjective view which is completely ignorant on the reality of the average multiplayer game with strangers.

It's not exactly a huge leap that you are under the assumption that you are using "objective reasoning" rather than "subjective view" since you call him out on his subjective view.


Never mind the following:
I am objectively right


Never mind that you started off the snark with the title of this thread. On top of being rather condescending to a host of other people in this thread for their disagreement. And on that note, I can only say that I am objectively right in my assessment. Because it's never annoying when someone says that.
 

Jia Xu

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Well, when you say this: It's not exactly a huge leap that you are under the assumption that you are using "objective reasoning" rather than "subjective view" since you call him out on his subjective view. Never mind the following Never mind that you started off the snark with the title of this thread. On top of being rather condescending to a host of other people in this thread for their disagreement. And on that note, I can only say that I am objectively right in my assessment. Because it's never annoying when someone says that.

Oh, it absolutely is a huge leap. It's a leap from something that was simply never said to something that was. That's pretty huge from what I can see. He was attempting to convince me in my topic. Therefore I asked him to objectively make his case. That's it. Any secret message you take away from that is entirely the invention of one's imagination.

Why don't you try taking the "objectively right" statement and put it into context. You know, respond to something honesty.