You want number? I will give you one.Or constantly ignore this because it proves my point! Whatever!
With Ottomans it takes 1111 months to convert Edirne and you need to do that in order to change culture. Good luck with your 1 missionary.
Great demo. Too bad culture is a joke
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With Ottomans it takes 1111 months to convert Edirne and you need to do that in order to change culture. Good luck with your 1 missionary.
Given how easy it was to 'break' EU3 and conquer the entire world (even possible when playing as Ryukyu, a Native American nation, or a tribal horde that never changes its government type- see Prawnstar) it is a little foolish to 'guarantee' anything like that. For all we know we'll see a World Conquest in the first week.
You told me, "Please don't "whine" when you get annexed in MP in the first 25 years of the game." and I interpreted that as calling me a MP noob. If you intended to convey some other impression, I would advise you to work on your communications skill.
You should focus on paying attention then. "Whine" in quotations because it was your word, not mine. Ouch. This is the second time you tried to pin another person's post on me! What's the matter? Don't like the taste of your own medicine?
So I asked you for objective reasoning and what I got for my troubles was "I consider." Your very subjective view which is completely ignorant on the reality of the average multiplayer game with strangers. Tax base in the middle of the game? Yeah, okay, let's worry about that instead of the 100 province Russia with the 500K army. That makes so much sense, right? Wrong, actually. You'd go after Lithuania for the extra manpower and force limits. That way even if all of the human players come at you at once, they still lose.
Don't get "annoyed" if I know what I am talking about.
When you know what you're talking about, I'll be sure to attempt soliciting a reaction to your liking. Let me know when that happens.
Multiplayer is a different game. It is much closer to a game of Risk. Any game mechanic that doesn't increase manpower and/or forcelimits is ruthlessly ignored. Blobbing is the only point of the game. The only point.
Multiplayer is self-balancing. If there is an 'easy' mechanic such as culture flipping provinces...well..all players will get that. They will all be doing it. If certain countries can do it easier, then they will be popular targets for the players who know better. How far will Moskva get if Golden Horde is a player? If Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth is a player? Won't they be culture flipping as well?
You complain as if you are the soul person in the game with the intelligence to culture flip while all the other players sit around waiting for your vast blob to over run them.
Peter has given good facts, and said what the trade offs will be in the vast majority of games that will be played. The OP's arguments are based on only style of play, played by a tiny minority of players.
Multiplayer is self-balancing. If there is an 'easy' mechanic such as culture flipping provinces...well..all players will get that. They will all be doing it. If certain countries can do it easier, then they will be popular targets for the players who know better. How far will Moskva get if Golden Horde is a player? If Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth is a player? Won't they be culture flipping as well?
You complain as if you are the soul person in the game with the intelligence to culture flip while all the other players sit around waiting for your vast blob to over run them.
Peter has given good facts, and said what the trade offs will be in the vast majority of games that will be played. The OP's arguments are based on only style of play, played by a tiny minority of players.
When you know what you're talking about, I'll be sure to attempt soliciting a reaction to your liking. Let me know when that happens.
You have no idea how unintentionally hilarious this exchange is. Thank you for this thread, it brightened up my day.
For the peanut gallery, Peter is 100% correct in that barring some insane set of coincidences, culturally converting provinces without the distant overseas discount is a pretty terrible deal, objectively. 100 DIP to affect a single province will generally not be worth it, when 400 DIP gets you global effects in the shape of ideas. And even if you want a local effect, the trade and naval buildings give that, at a much lower cost.
Multiplayer balancing is essentially the only balancing worth talking about. SP balancing can be done yourself, through modding. In a random Steam game, we all have to use the default CHEKSUM and balancing becomes very important.
You have a good point that the culture flipping can be balanced out by everyone doing that. The problem is that your point proves my main point that culture is kind of a joke! I thank you very much for your support!
I was coring provinces at a cost of like 450 points each and I still had ADM points left over. This whole notion relies on the erroneous belief that making expensive purchases all of the time will leave you with no monarch points. This is demonstrably false. Four provinces in your culture group vs. an idea which will give you 5% more trade steering. Wow. What a fair trade in a scenario where one player is going to wipe you off the map shortly!
your points aside jian xu, what exactly do you hope to achieve by being rude to people? all i see you doing in this thread is alienating people by being impolite, and i assume you know full well what i mean otherwise feel free to ask.
i can see where you are coming from, and if the assumptions you make prove to be correct your conclusions stand a decent chance to prove correct as well.
however we simply dont know. and nobody can claim to know how expansion will turn out. we dont even know for sure if the current balance in the release version is identical to the demo values, let alone how it plays out with more naitons playable and mroe gametime available.
i agree we should keep an eye on that. other than that please consider not to be so rude and not to talk down to people as much. i understand how annoying it is especially if the first reply you get is an insult, thats no excuse to be agressive or passive agressive to everyone. and its certainly no reason to dismiss everyone who doesnt not agree with you(in a polite manner).
and i can understand how people become impolite towards you after reading a few of your replies, not that that is any excuse either
i can see where you are coming from, and if the assumptions you make prove to be correct your conclusions stand a decent chance to prove correct as well.
however we simply dont know. and nobody can claim to know how expansion will turn out. we dont even know for sure if the current balance in the release version is identical to the demo values, let alone how it plays out with more naitons playable and mroe gametime available.
i agree we should keep an eye on that. other than that please consider not to be so rude and not to talk down to people as much. i understand how annoying it is especially if the first reply you get is an insult, thats no excuse to be agressive or passive agressive to everyone. and its certainly no reason to dismiss everyone who doesnt not agree with you(in a polite manner).
and i can understand how people become impolite towards you after reading a few of your replies, not that that is any excuse either
The demo is "easier" because its a LOT shorter than the whole game so you cant see the consequences of your actions. The OP spent a bunch of points on turning Africa Catholic & Portuguese. Now, the demo only runs for a handful of years so the demo ended & he felt like he accomplished something awesome. If the game kept going for a couple hundred years he would eventually see how he should have saved those points & invested more into techs, because he will probably get way behind later on.....
I wanted the demo to come out, but its really annoying reading all these threads where people have played 30 yrs or however long the demo lasts & then they wanna come on here & complain about stuff like they've played through a whole 300+ year game. You dont know how things are going to pan out in the long run. If you start out "strong" & blow all your points on dumb stuff you are gonna be gimped by the end I'm betting....
So how do you suggest balancing this out? Making it take longer? Increasing the cost?
What do you have against Hearts of Iron? And also, you will not annex me in 25 years in multiplayer, because I won't play with you (sticks out tongue)...
seriously dude... most people play this for single player
Sometimes people with inferiority complexes feel the need to assert themselves as supreme even if it comes to small obscure things - like playing a sandbox game competitively
No, I don't think so. I'm not the one shouting noob at people and then accusing those people of shouting it at me. That's what happened here. I got called a noob and then Peter accused me of calling others noobs. Peter posts to tell me how annoying I am and then calls me the annoyed one. No, no, this comment from you here just won't do at all.
I'm speaking from my educated experiences in EU3. EU3 had way harsher anti-blobbing safe guards and they didn't work. I'm supposed to believe that the MP game is better balanced against hyper-blobbing when the new safe guards are less restrictive? Please.
It was suggested that culture flipping could be balanced by attaching it to an envoy like a diplomat. That way it would be less of a no-brainer for players who are just looking to eliminate the other human countries ASAP.
Wait, it's not attached to a diplomat? I didn't do culture flipping, but i thought it was only logical to need an envoy to do it.
just because you _think_ you are right doesnt mean you can talk down to people without them getting pissed about it, which is why this is the last thing ill say in here, i have no interest in discussing a point that is only marginally of importance to me(or the majority of player for that point) when it means i have to put up with a rude attitude, you just dismissed my suggestion to maybe be nicer, which is fine, do as you wish... just dont expect people to argue constructively with you if you dont do it either. i assumed you were interested in that, and you make it appear like its not relevant to you, pity
One more time. Peter accused me of posting things that were actually said by other people. In regard to the claim that I did not insult people with those exact words, I am objectively right. When I asked him about this, he basically gave me a "oh, well I interpreted your post as calling everyone names that you didn't actually say" response. You're the one being rude here. Instead of addressing my points, you're only posting to attack me, personally. Bye-bye.
I don't think OP has even played the demo, or he only played Portugal. How about you play the Ottoman Empire and get back to us?
You need to core in EU4, just having 50% overextension results in 6.7% revolt risk - that goes straight on top of your normal revolt risk. Imagine having 100 or 200? It's not Eu3 manpower, if you've played the Ottomans in the demo you'll find that your manpower pool is drained from fighting rebels all the time (unless you blow your precious military points on suppressing rebels, but that'll cause you to fall behind in military technology and army ideas).
There's no manpower blobbing, at least not in the Demo. If you look at the ledger, the largest manpower pool I saw in the game was Ming China and that was only like 35,000. There's no "half dozen 30,000 armies" (ROFL) and Poland / Lithuania / England only had manpower pools around 25000 or so. The manpower difference between the small and large powers, in terms of manpower, is arguably minimal. There doesn't seem to be snowball effect in manpower like there was in Eu3.
Government technology is arguably useless (except to unlock idea groups) and I would consider cores to be a pirority (always) over Government technology or administrative ideas.
Diplomatic and Military Points are very important in multiplayer. Blowing all your diplomatic points on culture conversion, means you'll fall way behind in naval technology and naval ideas. We'll assume the game starts in 1431, so in a hundred years you will get 6000 diplomatic points and a player can easily max out his naval ideas.
Your Portugal or whatever is stuck spending all its' points culture flipping, while another guy in multiplayer has his naval ideas maxed out, and better naval technology and even exploration ideas.
You need to core in EU4, just having 50% overextension results in 6.7% revolt risk - that goes straight on top of your normal revolt risk. Imagine having 100 or 200? It's not Eu3 manpower, if you've played the Ottomans in the demo you'll find that your manpower pool is drained from fighting rebels all the time (unless you blow your precious military points on suppressing rebels, but that'll cause you to fall behind in military technology and army ideas).
There's no manpower blobbing, at least not in the Demo. If you look at the ledger, the largest manpower pool I saw in the game was Ming China and that was only like 35,000. There's no "half dozen 30,000 armies" (ROFL) and Poland / Lithuania / England only had manpower pools around 25000 or so. The manpower difference between the small and large powers, in terms of manpower, is arguably minimal. There doesn't seem to be snowball effect in manpower like there was in Eu3.
Government technology is arguably useless (except to unlock idea groups) and I would consider cores to be a pirority (always) over Government technology or administrative ideas.
Diplomatic and Military Points are very important in multiplayer. Blowing all your diplomatic points on culture conversion, means you'll fall way behind in naval technology and naval ideas. We'll assume the game starts in 1431, so in a hundred years you will get 6000 diplomatic points and a player can easily max out his naval ideas.
Your Portugal or whatever is stuck spending all its' points culture flipping, while another guy in multiplayer has his naval ideas maxed out, and better naval technology and even exploration ideas.