Great demo. Too bad culture is a joke

[Delta107]

Get those trade ideas so you can get an extra like, 2 ducats of income after 30 years?

You do understand that IRL the Portuguese held an impressive monopoly on spice trade for some time.(And even so the spices which got to Venice and then were sold there allowed it to survive and maintain itself(of course Venice had the glass industry too), now you can imagine just how much the Portuguese were extorting). I don't know how its in EU4 yet but the trade ideas+ NI are worth more than the bloody Morocco coast. The Portuguese didn't conquer it primarily to stifle the pirates and get a handle on the North African trade lanes. Asia gives expansion opportunities, what about Morocco(where every coring costs 200% of the normal cost)?

 

[Knab]

I agree with the OP.
It isn't a matter of good choices for the late game; the fact is that changing the culture (as well as the religion) of a province in just few years is implausible.
I like those features but in my opinion the need some serious restraint (money,time,points, revolt risk..).

 

[Gemberkoekje]

I don't care. It's in the game, and when somebody suggests to make it "prohibitively expensive", then what he asks is to remove it. But because it's in the game, I see it as a mechanic to use.

There's no point in making something "prohibitively expensive". That's the no-brainer here.

What would you think about tying up a Diplomat with each Cultural Conversion (It'd make some sense too, as you'd need someone to convince the people that your culture is superior) - that way, while it still wouldn't cost as much, you'd have to choose whether you want to use your Diplomat to convert stuff.

 

[Lessing]

What would you think about tying up a Diplomat with each Cultural Conversion (It'd make some sense too, as you'd need someone to convince the people that your culture is superior) - that way, while it still wouldn't cost as much, you'd have to choose whether you want to use your Diplomat to convert stuff.

I think that might be ok. Since I've played the game for 4 hours only, I couldnt say if thats balanced or still prohibitively constraining or so.

 

[NoobRage]

Sounds like the OP doesnt have idea that the diplo power he spends in flipping cultures can also be used in National Ideas and Techs that benefit trade, navies and colonization.

Good luck doing anything with Portugal if you dont get to colonize anything AND dont have a decent navy.

 

[beckermt]

AKA "Lets make cultural conversion unusable, or remove it from the game entirely". That's what "prohibitively" means.

So, basically how NO ONE EVER changed cultures purposefully in EU3 because Enact Settlement Policy was a terrible idea in every situation ever.

 

[kingsword]

80% of ideas won't be picked up by anybody for any type of game. That's what you get for requiring the same resource for this and that and their uncle.

 

[Jia Xu]

I think that might be ok. Since I've played the game for 4 hours only, I couldnt say if thats balanced or still prohibitively constraining or so.

Tying up an envoy with culture conversion wouldn't make things prohibitively constricted, I think. It would just force you to make some harder choices and grossly slow down mass conversions. Instead of just converting everything because you can, you'd have to make pinpoint moves in strategic provinces, because you need envoys to do other tasks as well.

 

[Jia Xu]

So, basically how NO ONE EVER changed cultures purposefully in EU3 because Enact Settlement Policy was a terrible idea in every situation ever.

I used it while waiting to get to trade 7 which was needed before you could get Quest for the New World.

Sounds like the OP doesnt have idea that the diplo power he spends in flipping cultures can also be used in National Ideas and Techs that benefit trade, navies and colonization. Good luck doing anything with Portugal if you dont get to colonize anything AND dont have a decent navy.

Oh, don't worry. In the main game I will play a country like Moscow. You guys can fight over which one of you gets to be England, the only country likely able to survive in such a pro-blobbing atmosphere.

 

[Sn3ipen]

I kinda agree that flipping culture should be extremely hard. Just imagine if your country got invaded by foreigners today. You would probably never start to talk their language and get used to their customs, but your grandchildren probably would with some "proper education". This game is meant to last 400years so you have plenty of time to do it if it took longer time.

 

[Skyhunteren]

What would you think about tying up a Diplomat with each Cultural Conversion (It'd make some sense too, as you'd need someone to convince the people that your culture is superior) - that way, while it still wouldn't cost as much, you'd have to choose whether you want to use your Diplomat to convert stuff.

I think it would make cultur conversations much rare as those diplomates are really needed and as that seems to be what we really want, then it seems as a good idea.

 

[Gemberkoekje]

I think it would make cultur conversations much rare as those diplomates are really needed and as that seems to be what we really want, then it seems as a good idea.

At worst, you could alter some ideas or base amounts to have 1 or 2 more diplomats, however, I don't know how much that would break the game if you have nothing to culturally convert.

 

[coldsteel]

I agree that cultural conversion cost should go way up.

 

[Delta107]

I think tying a diplomat is a completely awful idea. What the hell does a diplomat have to do with stifling local culture and building a new loyal elite to rule there and speak the language you want? That is work for the military and administration not diplomacy.

But in any case this will not have any consequences because coring, converting, and changing the culture is too expensive and its better to do something else. I know this depends, and possibly I would conquer more of the Morocco coast and build there shipyards, but I doubt that I would pay a big price for the culture changing. Besides this is a demo.

 

[Gemberkoekje]

I think tying a diplomat is an awful idea. What the hell does a diplomat have to do with stifling local culture and building a few loyal elite? That is the work for the military and administration not diplomacy.

Very well, but I'd still think an envoy would be a solution. Maybe a new envoy 'administrator' altogether?

 

[Sn3ipen]

I think tying a diplomat is a completely awful idea. What the hell does a diplomat have to do with stifling local culture and building a new loyal elite to rule there and speak the language you want? That is work for the military and administration not diplomacy.

Who say's one envoy can't do more than one thing?

 

[CynicJester]

No one is taking this uber-seriously except you, it seems. It's going to be okay, man. It's just a message board and we're having a disagreement. Yes, being obliterated in MP happens to everyone. It happens to some people more than others. In Europa Universalis, it happens to people who don't understand that an opponent gaining an average of 5 provinces per decade is something to be deeply concerned about.

Why would somebody who culturally converts be "gaining" provinces? They'll have the same number of provinces. The guy who isn't shedding DIP to convert provinces will however get to the -33% discount on cores in Diplomacy faster, and as such have a far bigger advantage, as AMP are critical and DIP are not. That is a far bigger balance issue. And it only costs 25 DIP overseas, as opposed to 100 DIP normally. If you think cultural conversion is so strong, play as Austria and convert the Netherlands. Something tells me you'd rather have, I don't know, 2 national ideas in the diplomacy tree instead.

 

[cwg9]

I think tying up a missionary (think religious schools) works better than a diplomat. Slows both cultural and religious conversion down that way, and you need to decide carefully which one is the priority as you can't do both at the same time.

 

[Delta107]

I think prolonging the time to change the culture would work just fine. The developers have made the decision about the envoys and they will not change it because it will clutter the interface with stupid unnecessary mechanics. A bigger price+time for culture change will suffice.

 

[Sn3ipen]

I think tying up a missionary (think religious schools) works better than a diplomat. Slows both cultural and religious conversion down that way, and you need to decide carefully which one is the priority as you can't do both at the same time.

That would work.