Great demo. Too bad culture is a joke

[Pryderi]

This isn't even a well thought out example. Portugal can become Spain, which would give Castillian provinces no malice anyway, because of the union bonus. No, no, I'd rather just smash countries in other tech groups that don't seem to be capable of defending themselves against the lone military might of Portugal and blob up until I can start conquering countries like Naples. Please don't "whine" when you get annexed in MP in the first 25 years of the game. Thanks.

Naples is easy to conquer, why blob up first? My learn to play games as Venice haven't gone too well, but if I decide to take Naples there's nothing they can do about it.

edit - I do agree culture change is far too fast in paradox games, CK2 has it much slower and even then it's too fast.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

during the process, events about resistences and revolts should happen. Like during colonization.

 

[cwg9]

I've never liked how fast cultural and religious conversion happens in this entire series, this is nothing new really, it's always been a part of their design. Cultural conversion in my mind should be prohibitively expensive, it should be something you almost never use and that takes a really long time (i.e. a few generations). Unless you are engaged in genocide, a population is going to be extremely resistant to giving up their language and customs. Religions should be a bit easier to flip than culture but should certainly take a lot longer (e.g. a generation) than the current implementation.

It's the same problem with coring too really, it seems way to fast and easy to me.

Any way, hopefully the opportunity cost of converting and coring will keep these mechanics in check, or else it's probably something we can mod pretty easily to slow it down.

 

[Jia Xu]

i know this is off topic, but since when do PI titles have multiplayer elitism... that stuff belongs to... you know, proper multiplayer games with big multiplayer communities, and unfriendly people and all that nonsense.

It's not "elitism." I'm concerned about the balance of the game. Blobbing was not balanced in EU3, and this was the case even with little penalties like outside cultures making techs more expensive, giving you less taxes, and more rebellions. With things as they are in this demo, blobbing is actually easier than it is in EU3. This is a matter of concern. I'd rather not have EU4 be reduced to March of the Eagles or Hearts of Iron.

 

[Gemberkoekje]

This could be largely fixed if culture flipping used up a Colonist. That way you'd have to choose between building a colony or culture flipping and countries that don't colonize would have a use for Colonists too. Culture flipping also needs to be drastically longer. 10 years as the base with significant add-ons for non-accepted cultures, please.

Not sure... considering you'd only get a colonist after choosing the exploration ideas. So if you were Hungary, and you wanted to convert some Russian province you conquered, you'd need to invest in... exploration?

I mean, I see where you want to go, but I don't think this is the solution, or at least, not JUST that.

 

[Gunburned]

Culturely converting your provinces will help keep your nation more stable in times of strife. Not having an accepted culture gives a -15% Tax modifier in the province in case no one realised that. If you get invaded you'll have rebels popping up fighting the invaders on your behalf, its already happened to me a Portugal game when Morocco attacked me.....
But indeed it costs alot of points that could have gone towards your technologies. I hope this helps clear some stuff up.

 

[tapewormlondon]

If you continue like this, your country would not be in a really good shape 150 or 200 years later. In EUIV everything is about making the right choices; and you seem to be totally free in doing the wrong things. Thats what I Love about the new mechanics. We will see how it turns out in the long run.

I tend to agree with this statement..... I had to spend like 350 points to core fez wasnt paying attention to culture, but thats still 350+25=375 for one province..... the early techs are almost equel to that. So thats almost 5-6 techs for 8 or so privinces give or take. Thats alot for shitty north african provinces.

HOWEVER - we wont know how this will pan out as we aint been able to play past the 22 years mark. Could turn out that once you get so big with all those cores, tech doesnt matter a damn and you can just kill everything

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Is all space for the future major DLCs.

 

[Gemberkoekje]

What if you'd needed to tie up a Diplomat instead? So you need to choose between improving relationships and all that, or doing the culture flip?

 

[Kamchat]

I don't want to act as a shit disturber but Jia Xu take a chill pill man. Losing a MP game first of all happens virtually, no needto get serious about it. Also everyone here is allowed to have an opinion on conversion right?

 

[Lessing]

Cultural conversion in my mind should be prohibitively expensive, it should be something you almost never use and that takes a really long time

AKA "Lets make cultural conversion unusable, or remove it from the game entirely". That's what "prohibitively" means.

 

[Jia Xu]

What if you'd needed to tie up a Diplomat instead? So you need to choose between improving relationships and all that, or doing the culture flip?

That would work out better too.

I don't want to act as a shit disturber but Jia Xu take a chill pill man. Losing a MP game first of all happens virtually, no needto get serious about it. Also everyone here is allowed to have an opinion on conversion right?

No one is taking this uber-seriously except you, it seems. It's going to be okay, man. It's just a message board and we're having a disagreement. Yes, being obliterated in MP happens to everyone. It happens to some people more than others. In Europa Universalis, it happens to people who don't understand that an opponent gaining an average of 5 provinces per decade is something to be deeply concerned about.

 

[Skyhunteren]

At 25 DIP points (around 3-5 months worth) per province, there's really no reason not to convert every single province you own to your primary culture. Absolutely no reason at all. None. I played Portugal last night, focused on taking down Morocco. Within 20 years half of Morocco was cored, Catholic and Portuguese. With culture being so easy to convert, it doesn't really mean anything anymore.

That is because cultur conversion depends on basetax. It may be a good idea to change the relative cheap teritories in morocco, but as an example it costs around 200 dp to change the cultur of holstein as Denmark So as I see it it really depends when it is something you should do and when it is not.

 

[aitaituo]

I've never liked how fast cultural and religious conversion happens in this entire series, this is nothing new really, it's always been a part of their design. Cultural conversion in my mind should be prohibitively expensive, it should be something you almost never use and that takes a really long time (i.e. a few generations). Unless you are engaged in genocide, a population is going to be extremely resistant to giving up their language and customs.

Did we play the same EU3? I jumped for joy and immediately saved when I managed to get a cultural assimilation event for a province that was outside of my culture group.

 

[Jia Xu]

Did we play the same EU3? I jumped for joy and immediately saved when I managed to get a cultural assimilation event for a province that was outside of my culture group.

Right. In EU3, culture conversion was a rare event most of the time. There was special MTTH exceptions like Russians converting Tartars and such, but for the most part, a culture conversion in EU3 was a very rare occasion. Even with settlement policy, you could usually look forward to waiting decades for a single province to flip.

 

[keynes2.0]

Seeing as culture conversion is mostly ahistorical and is just so the player can paint the map pretty colors if they wish, making it grossly impractical in most cases actually sounds like a no-brainer good idea to me, Lessing.

 

[Delta107]

At 25 DIP points (around 3-5 months worth) per province, there's really no reason not to convert every single province you own to your primary culture. Absolutely no reason at all. None. I played Portugal last night, focused on taking down Morocco. Within 20 years half of Morocco was cored, Catholic and Portuguese. With culture being so easy to convert, it doesn't really mean anything anymore.

I'll give you a reason. Lets assume I play as Portugal. Rather than convert pesky Berber provinces, I would research trade tech and get as many trade and colonizing NIs. Now yes in MP games it might be wise get as many coastal provinces close to capital. But there is a price its not for free. I agree the period is too short. At the very least it should be a few decades depending on situation(and even then its a hell of an approximation).

 

[keynes2.0]

Get those trade ideas so you can get an extra like, 2 ducats of income after 30 years?

 

[Jia Xu]

I'll give you a reason. Lets assume I play as Portugal. Rather than convert pesky Berber provinces, I would research trade tech and get as many trade and colonizing NIs. I agree the period is a bit short. Its should be a few decades depending on situation(and even then its a hell of an approximation)

I converted these provinces to Portuguese and I was still caught up in trade tech. The next diplomatic tech had a penalty on it because I was 4 years ahead or something.

 

[Lessing]

Seeing as culture conversion is mostly ahistorical and is just so the player can paint the map pretty colors if they wish, making it grossly impractical in most cases actually sounds like a no-brainer good idea to me, Lessing.

I don't care. It's in the game, and when somebody suggests to make it "prohibitively expensive", then what he asks is to remove it. But because it's in the game, I see it as a mechanic to use.

There's no point in making something "prohibitively expensive". That's the no-brainer here.