Great demo. Too bad culture is a joke

[Belissarius]

I feel like someone could write an entire textbook on logical fallacies using only Jia Xu's posts as the examples.

Except I am pretty sure he is well aware of the holes in his position. It is my contention that he took his example knowing full well it was not representative of culture change across the board because showing culture change else where doesnt fit his real narrative of "I don't want those nasty Turks changing the Balkans Sunni green and the provinces Turkish.' Because if he used the other examples with Portugal in North Africa it becomes not a discussion how culture is a joke but how north Africa culture flipping needs tweaking which isn't, I believe, his real goal.

 

[Elusivehonor]

Just kinda feel like this mechanic should be changed to only affect New World provinces, and only create colonial varieties. For example, as Spain do this to Tenochitlan, and it changes from New World culture to Colonial Spanish which is in your culture group. (Of course regional varieties can exist of this, just an example)

If you do this in Europe or any other part of the world (minus areas that are affected by hordes, which would give similar results as new world), it should take upwards of a century, and be extremely expensive.

I feel like this mechanic should be reserved for those one or two border provinces that you own that causes you trouble, and the New World, not so you can make the world your dominant culture.

Maybe this is a mod thing, though.

 

[trcanberra]

My first thought is that this is not EU3 - so comparisons may not be valid. My 2nd thought is that we have experienced EU3ers on both sides of the fence - so it may well be a great system.

 

[shakeled1]

unless there is no existing independent nation of that culture group. Only then should the rates be as swift as they are now. This is enough to satisfy me.

It's not like Polish people suddenly disappeared when Poland was partitioned or Hungarians and and Czechs were all suddenly more easily turned into Austrians because Austria inherited them. That being said, I'm going to reserve judgment on how effective the cultural-conversion for points is when I can see the effects of it over the full course of a game (though really since normal colonies are the country's culture by default, I'd rather overseas conversion not be easy in Africa and Asia.)

 

[Chiro]

It's not like Polish people suddenly disappeared when Poland was partitioned or Hungarians and and Czechs were all suddenly more easily turned into Austrians because Austria inherited them. That being said, I'm going to reserve judgment on how effective the cultural-conversion for points is when I can see the effects of it over the full course of a game (though really since normal colonies are the country's culture by default, I'd rather overseas conversion not be easy in Africa and Asia.)

Though they would have disappeared if the new ruler would really focus on "re-educating" them. And it's not that the ruler couldn't do it, it's just that he never wanted to (xenofobic people even existed back then) or thought about it (hard repression was the answer to anything, why think about a different way?). But for the player that's not a problem, as he actually wants to change te culture of his people.

 

[EUTony]

It cost 350 diplo to flip Hainaut to Austrian. That's basically a full tech.

 

[Red_warning]

After having played the demo some more I realise that the wealth of the province matters a lot. A high value province is not really worth converting. However, low value provinces are on the other hand far too cheap to convert, so I think they should increase the base cost to a minimum of 75 or so.

 

[Alerias]

After having played the demo some more I realise that the wealth of the province matters a lot. A high value province is not really worth converting. However, low value provinces are on the other hand far too cheap to convert, so I think they should increase the base cost to a minimum of 75 or so.

The benefits and maluses of any province's cultural status is directly proportional to its base tax and manpower, so base costs serves no purposes. You gain 10 times more benefit from converting the culture of a basetax 10 mp 10 than you do converting that of a basetax 1 Mp 1 province, so its perfect that the costs are equally linear.

 

[Belissarius]

It cost 350 diplo to flip Hainaut to Austrian. That's basically a full tech.

That's basically 1/2 a tech or a full national idea.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

That's basically 1/2 a tech or a full national idea.

Techs are worth 500, right?

 

[EUTony]

Techs are worth 500, right?

For me it was 400 points at least for level 7 and 8?

 

[Red_warning]

The benefits and maluses of any province's cultural status is directly proportional to its base tax and manpower, so base costs serves no purposes. You gain 10 times more benefit from converting the culture of a basetax 10 mp 10 than you do converting that of a basetax 1 Mp 1 province, so its perfect that the costs are equally linear.

And the consequence will be that some cultures that survived all of EU's history IRL will disappear by the first decade.

 

[Berlichingen]

It is amazing the amount of arguing that takes place over a single line in a text file defining how much a culture change costs. Up the value if you disagree you dolts! I know I will.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

For me it was 400 points at least for level 7 and 8?

I meant base cost. Or maybe it was 500 for the Ottomans...

 

[EUTony]

I meant base cost. Or maybe it was 500 for the Ottomans...

That must be the case, because I am positive it was 400 for both an idea and a tech for Austria.

It's so nice to get everything sorted out and to work with this new system.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

That must be the case, because I am positive it was 400 for both an idea and a tech for Austria.

It's so nice to get everything sorted out and to work with this new system.

Yeah, that makes sense since Ottomans get 125% tech cost, so that would be 500.

 

[Belissarius]

The benefits and maluses of any province's cultural status is directly proportional to its base tax and manpower, so base costs serves no purposes. You gain 10 times more benefit from converting the culture of a basetax 10 mp 10 than you do converting that of a basetax 1 Mp 1 province, so its perfect that the costs are equally linear.

Very true.


I have to say that people need to play various games in various ways to fully understand the effects of religious and culture changes. In EU3 the benefits to cost ratio were always a no brainer covert and hope and pray you get a culture event. if you were a non colonial power then use the resettlement option.

The thing is that all these options cost you was cash and a renewable resource colonist/missionary. There was no effect on coring, no effect on technology you were not slowed down to getting your national ideas.

Now changes come at a cost. They cost you MP that adds up. If you paint the world your culture its going to slow you down a huge amount in all diplomatic options that cost MP. A few provinces converted will have little noticeable effect but a dozen two dozen will add up hugely. First you have to core them all then you have to religiously convert them, Finally you have to culturally convert them. This is a LOT of points. Again a hand full of Provinces not so bad a dozebn or two dozen provinces and you are going to feel it.

Personally I have zero problem with players choosing to create a homogenized cultural and religious nation. Why? because it is not done without a cost to other aspects of the game. Whats better to spend this points on culture changes or get more colonies? Does Venice spend its points on improving its trade and navy or spend time converting its Greek provinces?

You see to me there isn't a wrong answer as much as some players can't stand the idea of their culture's provinces switching I have no problem with it. Hell I change my own anestorial cultures myself to what ever nation I am playing if I take a province of Scottish, Welsh or Irish culture.

 

[Belissarius]

Techs are worth 500, right?

I must have misread my tech costs lol I thought it was 600. Maybe I had some modifiers I was not paying attention to or I was on drugs.

my mistake.

 

[safe-keeper]

It is amazing the amount of arguing that takes place over a single line in a text file defining how much a culture change costs. Up the value if you disagree you dolts! I know I will.

Agreed.

To put things into perspective: EU IV is pretty much an amazingly streamlined game. Think of how unplayable HOI III was when it came out and how polished it is now. Balance issues like how long it takes to do X or how expensive it should be to do Y is nothing in the big scheme of things. Nothing patches and mods can't fix .
Pardon me if I sound like a fanboy, but this does sound a little like a tempest in a tea cup to me.

 

[unmerged(263664)]

Though they would have disappeared if the new ruler would really focus on "re-educating" them. And it's not that the ruler couldn't do it, it's just that he never wanted to (xenofobic people even existed back then) or thought about it (hard repression was the answer to anything, why think about a different way?). But for the player that's not a problem, as he actually wants to change te culture of his people.

No offence but thats completely bs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Posen - here youve example of hard repression, its not mention there but children's strike of Września started cause german "teachers" hardly beat them, practically tortured after they refused speaking in german language. So yeah, changing culture shouldnt happen so easily and without really major penalties.