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unmerged(84599)

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Sep 26, 2007
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Hello, this may have been already mentioned in which case I apologise for bringing it back.

When playing I always thought that the process of granting independence to new states was one of the most rigid and non-natural processes in the game. Indeed, when doing so, you can only grant independence to a pre-established country with its core provinces being chosen by default. Here is what would seem to me more logical, and would make one the nicest features more realistic.

1) When granting independence you should be able to choose which provinces you want to let go without restriction (starting of course from at least one of the core provinces, but being able to include others)

2) The more core provinces you include, the more the new state should be stable and willing to honour your alliance in case of war. The less you include, the more revolts should occur and these revolts should spread to your own provinces that border this new state (that could be a percentage of the total core provinces, like 40%).

3) Finally (and historically imo one of the most important things), the new state, if unstable or in rebellion, should have a very high probability to ally with your enemies to get back its core provinces. That probability could decrease as the date of independence gets older.

4) In order to prevent people from creating puppet states all over the map the viability of a new state could include a sort of necessary proportion of core provinces compared to other provinces.


Finally I think that when you grant independence you should be able to support the new state, commercially, economically and militarily.


Thanks
 

RedRalphWiggum

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1) When granting independence you should be able to choose which provinces you want to let go without restriction (starting of course from at least one of the core provinces, but being able to include others)

Comepletely agree.

2) The more core provinces you include, the more the new state should be stable and willing to honour your alliance in case of war. The less you include, the more revolts should occur and these revolts should spread to your own provinces that border this new state (that could be a percentage of the total core provinces, like 40%).

I don't know about this, I'm not even sure they should be allied. It's not like Poland was allied to the USSR in the 20s or Ireland to the UK. But I recognise there has to be some meachanic to motivate the human player to liberate nations.
3) Finally (and historically imo one of the most important things), the new state, if unstable or in rebellion, should have a very high probability to ally with your enemies to get back its core provinces. That probability could decrease as the date of independence gets older.

Yeah, sounds good.
4) In order to prevent people from creating puppet states all over the map the viability of a new state could include a sort of necessary proportion of core provinces compared to other provinces.

Definitely. you shouldn't be allowed to release Cork and Kerry and call it Ireland.
Finally I think that when you grant independence you should be able to support the new state, commercially, economically and militarily.

How?
 

Bezborg

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Nov 12, 2008
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I would like to add a proposal that I pointed out on some other thread some time ago, it's lost to me now but here it is again... :)

I think a certain time period should be defined within which a subject nation can claim to be sufficiently influenced by its colonial overlord for it have the same level of technology!

To make things a bit more clear: If I was Britain let's say, feared as the most advanced nation on Earth BWAHAh, and I've acquired a distant colony via peace negotiation (happened a lot in V1), AND I've decided instantly that I really don't want the piece of land on the other side of the world and decide to immediately release the nation inhabiting that colony (let's say that it is eligible)... Let's say a day has passed after I've acquired the land and given it it's independence... Is it realistic that the inhabitants of the new and independent state of BritainHasNoUseForUs Land have the same level of technology as I do, just because they've found themselves under my dominion for 24 hours??

That being said, and presuming your answer in "NO" , I propose that the minimal period for a subject nation to be under a more advanced overlord's dominion in order for them to have the same tech level in the moment of acquiring independence be let's say 5 years...just to complete my suggestion, the period is obviously open for debate...

Also, I'm dealing with a conceptual issue, I have no insight on game mechanics, any input to this effect is welcome.
 

Sebastian Jarl

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I'm pretty sure most of us like these proposals, not being able to choose provinces is one of the most annoying features when releasing a country.

As for limiting what provinces can be given, that's a tough one. EU3's needing the capital is a good one, but I foresee troubles in the Victoria engine. For instance, why would UK want to release Dublin as a part of Ireland if alternate history has made it mostly British?

I don't know about this, I'm not even sure they should be allied. It's not like Poland was allied to the USSR in the 20s or Ireland to the UK. But I recognise there has to be some meachanic to motivate the human player to liberate nations.

UK wasn't allied to the Irish Free State?
 

RedRalphWiggum

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Oh, right you are, forgot about that one... But I'm not sure if he made any distinction between the tech level and inventions while saying that?

TBH, I don't remember the details and he was pretty vague in any case, so we don't know for sure, but you make a very good point, and I'd hope the mechanic (that King referred to), could be implemented that way somehow.

Maybe there could be some relation to granting statehood too.
 

Garak

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I don't know about this, I'm not even sure they should be allied. It's not like Poland was allied to the USSR in the 20s or Ireland to the UK. But I recognise there has to be some meachanic to motivate the human player to liberate nations.

Well in the case of Poland, you could say that they Russia was forced to release it during the chaos of the war, and then the country changed into the USSR anyway, so that's a slightly different case.
 

Foelsgaard

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If some mechanism for contagious rebellion is included, then releasing unruly subjects to prevent their discontent from spreading could be a good idea. Like amputating a limb to prevent gangrene.
 

telesien

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King made a passing reference to technology needing to spread across countries, so maybe that will somehow change that issue, Vaul.

IIRC he ment discoveries tied to technologies and not technologies themselves. They should remain the way they were in Vicky 1
 

unmerged(144721)

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If earlier existing country is a part of two or more powers (for example Poland at the end of 18-th century in structure of Russia, Prussia and Austria) and if one of these powers gives independence to this country (Russia gives independence to Poland, having given it third of territory, which it has in Russia), other countries (Prussia and Austria) too can give independence to Poland, having returned its primordial territories, thus having received full Poland. It was not in V1.
 

Easy Max

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If earlier existing country is a part of two or more powers (for example Poland at the end of 18-th century in structure of Russia, Prussia and Austria) and if one of these powers gives independence to this country (Russia gives independence to Poland, having given it third of territory, which it has in Russia), other countries (Prussia and Austria) too can give independence to Poland, having returned its primordial territories, thus having received full Poland. It was not in V1.


Ahh - can anyone actually recall this ever happening in history? -- not including peace treaties, I dont think two separate and independant countries both ceding territory so that a 3rd country could be born (the opposite has been done, with the Partition of Poland)