Grand Welsh Expansion Mod

[Beauclerc]

The relationship between England and Wales is immensely complicated - far too complicated to discuss here.

My breakthrough in reading history came when I threw off any hints of patriotism (I don't like patriotism at all anymore... I think it's far more destructive than constructive). Now I tend to view historical politics as what they were... different sides all interacting and communicating for their own ends. Now I can see Welsh chiefs and Princes in the same light as I see English kings and barons. When you see it like that, the actions of both sides becomes more clear. When you aren't looking for reasons "to be proud" history makes more sense imo. It took a while for me to get there, but I've found history far more interesting since. That's what enabled me to take a depper interest in Scottish and Welsh history and I appreciate their side of the story now... which perhaps was less the case when I was a lot younger.

Trouble is, I don't get to sit and read history as much as I used to... I have read John Davies' History of Wales though.

 

[Drachenfire]

unscientific poll for Welsh players:


Which colors would best represent the duchies of Gwynedd and Deheubarth?

Which colors would best represent a Kingdom of Wales?
I personally think the slate gray is dull, and have done a mod up in Imperial Purple. I like the purple because of the symbolism associated with the Romano-Britons, and the Welsh being their direct decendents.

But I have also tried Glorious Green, definetly an eye catcher- the only concern here is a united Kingdom of Ireland.

Either way, the Aberffraw coat-of-Arms pops out when displayed on both of these colors, where-as it is kind of obscured in the slate gray.

So... your thoughts if you have any on the color of Wales!

 

[Beauclerc]

Well, Welsh nation teams (eg Rugby and Football) always use Red as the main colour. Of course, England is currently Red in the game... but is it possible to change England to White? Not sure if white is an option.

 

[Drachenfire]

Well, Welsh nation teams (eg Rugby and Football) always use Red as the main colour. Of course, England is currently Red in the game... but is it possible to change England to White? Not sure if white is an option.

It is possible to change England to White, and that would be interesting indeed. But England and Red go hand in hand like...... Scotland and Blue, Ireland and Green, and Wales and Purple.

Of corse, Wales could also be red, or green. And England could be white.


*considers*

 

[Beauclerc]

It is possible to change England to White, and that would be interesting indeed. But England and Red go hand in hand like...... Scotland and Blue, Ireland and Green, and Wales and Purple.

Of corse, Wales could also be red, or green. And England could be white.


*considers*

England isn't really associated with Red. Great Britain may be - the redcoats of the British Army for example, but not England particularly.

English national sides in sport usually wear White (the England football team and the England rugby team both wear white for example). Red is a secondary colour (used for 'away' strips and for trim).

Wales is predominantly associated with red, not purple... trust me on this . A Welsh sport kit will be predominantly red, with white and maybe green trim.

As you say, Scotland is indeed associated with a dark blue, and Ireland green.

Incidentally I use national sports kits because they are usually a good indicator of a 'national' colour.

 

[Beauclerc]

Additonally, lurking in my brain somewhere is the fact that the Welsh representation in the British Union Flag is the red diagonal cross.

 

[Reveilled]

Additonally, lurking in my brain somewhere is the fact that the Welsh representation in the British Union Flag is the red diagonal cross.

That's the cross of St. Patrick, for (Northern) Ireland. The welsh cross is ST. David's cross, a black cross on gold and is not represented on the union flag owing to Wales' status within the UK as a principality, rather than a constituent kingdom.

You could go with red for both kingdoms. No reason Wales can't be red, and England reddish-pink like it is now.

I think it worth noting that the field of the English Coat of Arms is red, and that personally as a Scot, I associate red with England, and pink with Britain. Scotland is, and should be, light blue, as the correct colour of its flag. Ireland has a nice shade of green, and I'd go with the green for wales too. There are four shades of Green, and I'd take the darkest for Wales.

 

[Drachenfire]

I am partial to the purple or green for Wales.. I saw this one shade of green that just blew me away! But the purple harkens back to the Brythoniad, the Romano-Britons, who have traditonally been associated with the purple. The Welsh continued to call themeselves the Brythoniad until the mid 13th century, when y Cymry , or fellow-countryman, became more common in lititure.

I think mayhap I shall throw two versons out there. Is this possible? Maybe a Purple for a 1066 Kingdom of Wales, and maybe a green for a 3rd Crusade kingdom of Wales?

I know the WRU has a red kit, I need to get me a kit. Hehe.

By the by, St. David's cross is gold cross on black. According to Wikipedia and citing the Prime Minister's website, Wales is indeed one of four constituent countries (if not "kingdom") within the U.K. Hopefully, next year the Welsh Assembly shall have tax authority as in Scotland (albiet with Westminster veto :wacko: ).

Its all symantics anyway.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I think mayhap I shall throw two versons out there. Is this possible? Maybe a Purple for a 1066 Kingdom of Wales, and maybe a green for a 3rd Crusade kingdom of Wales?

No, you can only have one colour for a kingdom, which will be the same in every scenario

unscientific poll for Welsh players

so just Welsh players may vote ?

Though I can't vote officially, I can state that my preference would be a 'Green' Wales'

 

[unmerged(11427)]

I would follow football:
England -- white
Wales -- red
Scotland -- blue
Ireland -- green
Northern Ireland -- oops! wrong thread

 

[Drachenfire]

No, you can only have one colour for a kingdom, which will be the same in every scenario



so just Welsh players may vote ?

Though I can't vote officially, I can state that my preference would be a 'Green' Wales'

Hehe, what I mean is for those that would play a Welsh dynasty. Not necessarily be Welsh of corse. I mean, they are the ones that have to look at their kingdom most. That green did pop out at me!

 

[Beauclerc]

I wasn't sure about the union flag (hence the lurking in my brain bit)... but I should have checked. :wacko:

I personally think that if you asked Welsh people what one colour they'd associate with their nation, red would come out a clear winner. With England certainly it's more difficult as red and white are both predominant on the flag. However, as white is chosen for our sports kits, I'd still go with that.

 

[Moonsneeze]

Hmm I just found this!! It's been three weeks since the last post. I have to applaud Drachen for probably being the most polite individual I've ever seen post on a board.

I'll be more than happy to help out. My historical knowledge is limited to the classical unfortunately but I would be more than happy to chew up any books that are thrown at me.

I kinda like the grey for wales but if you really wanted to be romano-british you should definitely go with purple and maybe include some cultural events in that regard.

I've always wanted to see a sort of celtic flavored renaisance (bah can't spell it..) where the quasi-tribal nature of the welsh could be slowly discarded for the civilization the romans tried to impose on them but that they were forced to leave behind in order to stay unified and fight the saxons.

p.s. I love the idea of a normanless england!!

 

[Drachenfire]

Im completed with all but the last scenario at the moment. I've been distracted by my guild in Star Wars Galaxies and pending changes there. If I can get this weekend to simply post those remaining Welsh dynasties that did exist in the last scenario, then I would be done and complete.


By the way, can anyone give me precise (dis)tructions on how to post a scenario?


dydd da!

 

[LlywelynII]

By the way, can anyone give me precise (dis)tructions on how to post a scenario?

I don't know - you could post it to a free server and link over to it. There's a way to store it here, but I think you have to ask a mod for permission to upload a file. I'm sure they'll be obliging, though.

I'm waiting for this, though, so sooner the better
j.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

You can upload a modified scenario file in this subforum

If the file is to big, which is very unlikely for just some scenario tweaks, you must upload it at an uploadsite, I since recently use FileFront which is free and lets you upload upt to 1GB and the number of pop-ups and advertisments is also reasonable

 

[Drachenfire]

You can upload a modified scenario file in this subforum

If the file is to big, which is very unlikely for just some scenario tweaks, you must upload it at an uploadsite, I since recently use FileFront which is free and lets you upload upt to 1GB and the number of pop-ups and advertisments is also reasonable

Ok, I am at the site, but am unsure of something. Do I need to share each individual folder inside the Expansion file?I think I will need specific instructions on this Ok, I simply made anotrher folder with everything, compressed it as a zip, and sent it. Is this correct?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Ok, I am at the site, but am unsure of something. Do I need to share each individual folder inside the Expansion file?I think I will need specific instructions on this Ok, I simply made anotrher folder with everything, compressed it as a zip, and sent it. Is this correct?

That should work

Good to see you back, Drachenfire

 

[Drachenfire]

That should work

Good to see you back, Drachenfire

Thank you Veld, I have some time now away from Galaxies, but Vanguard Saga of Heros is around the corner too, hehe.


Anyway, so basically I link the page where the download is available here right?


Welsh Expansion Beta


If this is it, then I can post it officially. I am unsure as yet if it downloadable, so would beed someone to try and download it at least before I post that it is done.


Let me know if I have done it correctly

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

It is 168 MB ?

What files did you upload ?

1) Corrected and expanded historic dynasties in all scenarios
-Aberffraw
-Mathrafal
-Dinefwr
-Afen
2) Balanced representation of the Law Codes of Hywl the Good.
3)Welsh provincal income levels revisited. (Incorporating already discussed levels in Beta forums)
4) Scripted special events for Welsh and Breton culture characters.
5) Saxon dukes in England given rebel trait, William de Normandie given realm duress trait. This to represent the Wars between 1066-1075, where Bleddyn ap Cynfyn Mathrafal fought with the earls of Northumbria and Merica against the Normans.
6) Expanded Welsh and Breton names and generic dynasties.
7) Addition of certin dynasties and characters missing, like Sulien of Llanbadarn and sons, who were important chroniclers of their day.
8) Corrected use of CoA for Welsh dynasties.
9) Welsh georgraphy updated

This all in all should be a file of between 1 and 2 MB