Grand Culture Mod (Thread 2: Continuation of Finellach's)

[Calgacus]

Anyway Calgacus, on more condiseration for historical accuracy in Iberia, i'm more and more of the opinion that atleast Granada should be berber culture instead of arabic. Perhaps a few others, but atleast the province of Granada should be.

This Berber-Arab thing was one of the things I inherited, and I still don't understand it; Berber lumping together as it does Arab-speaking "Berbers" and proper-Berbers; so I regard the distribution as largely arbitrary except when it comes to great Arabic metropoleis. So, go ahead and list the provinces (pref. by number) for all three scenarios.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Really? I don't think so. So you think then that all this time I've ignored considerations of cultural and linguistic distinctiveness?

No, you haven't ignored them, don't mean that. Just that some cultures are left out which are just as distinct cultural and linguistic as the cultures they are now merged with.

In Italy f.e. Friulian culture is just as different as Sard I think.

Or (low) Saxon is just as different from German as Sard from Italian

But you have considered all the options and explained very well why you have included some and some not.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Calgacus, I understand you will include Gall Gailhead for your personal version anyway, so wouldn't it be then practical for you to switch Sard for GG?

 

[Third Angel]

Actually, I was not arguing for the removal of the "sard" TAG. I'm not sure of its real importance over moravian or norse islanders but that's your choice and that was not my point.

Sard is a much better name than Italian, which is the only choice we have. (...) Besides, Corsican and Sardinian languages are closely related anyways, as one would expect.

My point was that corsican is a separate italo-roman language, same as tuscanian, ligurian or piemontese whereas sard language was/is dinstinct enough from italian. So I still fail to see any reason to put Corsicans under a different culture.

What would be more realistic for 1066, Corsican warrior levies with Norman armour, or Corsican warrior levies with traditional armour? There's only one answer there.

Actually, the sprites look like this:
_French/English/Norman
_Occitan/Italian
But that is not really important. If you mean that Corsicans were barbarians then that's different. But you should know that there were nobles and knights in Corsica who certainly looked like the rest of the western european chivalry, and they came from Tuscany and Liguria, which brings us back to my first point.

Tags are limited.

In case that was not clear, I was just joking about the "corsican" TAG.

From what I've studies of the langauge, only the southern half of Corsica spoke Sardinian in a few cities along the coast near Sardinia itself. Corsican at the time and even now is pretty darn close to the Ligurian (Genoese) accent of Italian.

Northernmost Sardinia and certain southern corsican cities do share a common dialect, but this one is more related to corsican than sard.

 

[Calgacus]

No, you haven't ignored them, don't mean that. Just that some cultures are left out which are just as distinct cultural and linguistic as the cultures they are now merged with.

Yeah, I myself have made that point already.

But you have considered all the options and explained very well why you have included some and some not.

Thank you very much.

 

[Calgacus]

Calgacus, I understand you will include Gall Gailhead for your personal version anyway, so wouldn't it be then practical for you to switch Sard for GG?

I have ripped into the southern slavs to free up tags for my own mods.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I have ripped into the southern slavs to free up tags for my own mods.

But it would still be more practical for you if the public version of GCM would be as close to your personal version, I think.

 

[Calgacus]

But it would still be more practical for you if the public version of GCM would be as close to your personal version, I think.

Doesn't take that much time, just a case of using the REPLACE ALL function on notepad a few times. The real work has already been done by me.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Doesn't take that much time, just a case of using the REPLACE ALL function on notepad a few times. The real work has already been done by me.

Well, I'd personally like GG better than Sard, since I bet it'd be more used as a ruler culture.

 

[Calgacus]

Well, I'd personally like GG better than Sard, since I bet it'd be more used as a ruler culture.

Sard has been settled for ages. The arguments already made for it are all still there no matter that they weren't made yesterday and haven't been consulted by everyone.

Besides, if we get rid of Sard, we'd have to get rid of the Carinthians.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Sard has been settled for ages. The arguments already made for it are all still there no matter that they weren't made yesterday and haven't been consulted by everyone.

Of course, but I don't think it's set permanently in stone either. Or is it?

Besides, if we get rid of Sard, we'd have to get rid of the Carinthians.

Excellent, two birds in one stone!

Er well, I was kind of assuming that the arguments for GG, Sard, Moravian etc were pretty much on equal ground and just some had to be chosen?

 

[Calgacus]

Of course, but I don't think it's set permanently in stone either. Or is it?

Of course not, as the philosopher says, "truth is the daughter of time." The mod will become better and better over time as long as I keep an open mind. However after all this time I gotta be a little more conservative than caving into to every whim that's posted. After all, I'm the one that has to deal with the next guy who comes along and says why X and not Y, whether that guy is me or someone else.

Excellent, two birds in one stone!

Er well, I was kind of assuming that the arguments for GG, Sard, Moravian etc were pretty much on equal ground and just some had to be chosen?

The Sards are much, much more distinct from their neighbours than the Moravians from the Bohemians. On grounds of pure distinctiveness, the list of cultures that would go before the Sards is pretty large. However, the size matter is their main draw-back, the same way the most distinctive culture on the map (the Guanche) aren't even in the game because they'd only have one province.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

This Berber-Arab thing was one of the things I inherited, and I still don't understand it; Berber lumping together as it does Arab-speaking "Berbers" and proper-Berbers; so I regard the distribution as largely arbitrary except when it comes to great Arabic metropoleis. So, go ahead and list the provinces (pref. by number) for all three scenarios.

If its only language that differes, they should all be lumped into berber unless there a good reason for keeping them arabic since culture =/ only language. if it did, we'd be asking what language did they speak only.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Besides, if we get rid of Sard, we'd have to get rid of the Carinthians.

No we don't. The comparison alone is ridiculous.

 

[Mad King James]

Uh I think you'd best just keep Italians all one culture, that's a can of worms right there. If you're introducing Sard then what about Venetian, Neapolitan, etc?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Uh I think you'd best just keep Italians all one culture, that's a can of worms right there. If you're introducing Sard then what about Venetian, Neapolitan, etc?

Indeed. Venetian, Rhaetian-Friulian, Istriot, Dalmatian, Napolitan, Tuscan, Umbrian, Lombardian etc, etc, etc, etc.....

Carantanian is something totally else...at least we have something to put in Sards and Corsicans, Carantanians/Slovenes don't fit anywhere...they can't be Croats, they can't be Germans and they certainly can't be Italians....

 

[Calgacus]

This is doing my head in.

 

[Calgacus]

Indeed. Venetian, Rhaetian-Friulian, Istriot, Dalmatian, Napolitan, Tuscan, Umbrian, Lombardian etc, etc, etc, etc.....

Carantanian is something totally else...at least we have something to put in Sards and Corsicans, Carantanians/Slovenes don't fit anywhere...they can't be Croats, they can't be Germans and they certainly can't be Italians....

That really just reveals your ignorance and culturally skewed viewpoint. There's nowhere to put the Sards; the only Italian thing about them is that they are in modern Italy. Do you have amnesia or something?

 

[Calgacus]

No we don't. The comparison alone is ridiculous.

Yes we do. You're right about the comparison being ridicluous, Carinthians should go way before Sards. :rofl:

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Indeed. Venetian, Rhaetian-Friulian, Istriot, Dalmatian, Napolitan, Tuscan, Umbrian, Lombardian etc, etc, etc, etc.....

Carantanian is something totally else...at least we have something to put in Sards and Corsicans, Carantanians/Slovenes don't fit anywhere...they can't be Croats, they can't be Germans and they certainly can't be Italians....

Well the only potential cultures that would be recognised as different enough for their own tag would be Rhaetian as it's VERY different from Italian, and Venetian as it does not descend from the Italian language like the others, the other ones you listed are merely Italian dialects and are all Italo-Western dialects compared to Venetian which is genetically (in the linguistic term of 'genetically') closer to Spanish and French.