Grand Culture Mod (Thread 2: Continuation of Finellach's)

[Calgacus]

Was lateral thinking and typed it in and got more resonses. Google work is slow though for me atm.



http://www.the-orb.net/ is what I use when desperate. Might have something hidden in one of the links, or another search site may have it linked (other search sites linked there). Author is called Epifany *sommat* in Russian.

Nope. Haven't found it. I'd need to use the Zenkovsky book apparently. Well, I'll put it on my shopping list.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Good name lists but don't you think that the name 'Fatma' is too overtly foriegn? (I assume it's the Turkish variation of the name 'Fatima', daughter of Muhammad)

 

[Calgacus]

Good name lists but don't you think that the name 'Fatma' is too overtly foriegn? (I assume it's the Turkish variation of the name 'Fatima', daughter of Muhammad)

Thanks.

I'm assuming that some finnic chief will want to give his daughter a popular name from his neighbours in Bolgar.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Thanks.

I'm assuming that some finnic chief will want to give his daughter a popular name from his neighbours in Bolgar.

Where did you find it in context to Volga Finns? The likely answer (well I could still be wrong ) it's from a convert to Islam (or daughter of) rather then being ignorant of it's origin.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Ok, Here are some things I noticed in the 1066 part of the mod that either don't corespond with your map or are incorrect religious placements:

ALL Vlach provinces in Transylvania, Wallachia and Moldavia should be Orthodox

Aral and Emba - they're Pagan? Should they be? Because it seems rather odd, is gthis supposed to represent the Jewish Khazars or something?

Hum and Ragusa - Perhaps Finellach can explain this to me but in the mod they're Serbian Catholic, I would have thought they would have been Orthodox.

Jaca - I mentioned this earlier, you seemed to have accidently put this as Castillian instead of Catalan

Khozistan and Avhaz - I think I mentioned this earlier to, in your map they're supposed to be Arab but in the mod they are Persian.

This is only a brief skim of things in the 1066 scenario, I'll look into the other scenarios later.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

ALL Vlach provinces in Transylvania, Wallachia and Moldavia should be Orthodox

I would remove that part about Transylvania, Wallachia and Moladavia. All Vlach provinces should be orthodox.

Hum and Ragusa - Perhaps Finellach can explain this to me but in the mod they're Serbian Catholic, I would have thought they would have been Orthodox.

Both Orthodox. Ragusa would naturally have either Latin/Italian or Croatian culture and Catholic religion but being in totally wrong position(it's anything but Ragusa... ) the culture should be Serbian and naturally religion Orthodox.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I would remove that part about Transylvania, Wallachia and Moladavia. All Vlach provinces should be orthodox.

Indeed, Well I would have said Dobrunja but the single Vlach provice there is already Orthodox.

 

[Calgacus]

There is a large list of Mordvin names here, in case we ever have them:

http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=11090&sq=19,23,118,896,525&crypt=

And here's a translation of that site:

Pre-Christian imennik in mordvy consisted predominantly of original names, although, it goes without saying, was included a number of those borrowed: Slav, Arab, Turkish, etc. it counted more than thousand names.
The bases of traditional Mordvinian personal names usually designate either the trait of nature - Kezhay, Tyuey kezhut, Kezhapa, Kezhevat, Kezhedey from kezhey "evil", Parush from pair "good", or transfer relation to the child, feelings of parents - Vechkas, Of vechkush, Vechkan, Vechkovat, Vechkenza from vechkems "to love", Uchay, Uchvat, Uches', Uchan from uchems "to await", either is called the place of the generation of child - Paksyay, Paksyut, Pakstyan from pack "field", Viryay, Viryas, Virdyan from vir' "forest", or they contain hint to the period of generation - Nuyat, Nuyanza, Nuyaksha from nuyems "to harvest", Pivtsay from pivtsems "to thresh and so forth. In mordvy existed also the names with the bases, which designate the names of animals, birds, trees, etc.
, for example: Ovtay from ovto "bear", Pinyay, Pinyas from to pine "dog", Kargay, Kargash from hag "crane", Pichay from to piche "pine tree", Tumay from tumo "oak". Pre-Christian antroponimicheskaya model in mordvy was binomial.
It included the name of father (patronymic), which stands in the first place in the genitive case, and individual name, for example: Pivtsayen' Of nuyanza, Uchva of ton' Paksyut, Tumayen' Of viryas, Kezhevaton' To syumer'ge, Vedyaen' Of kolomas, Vechkomason' Of chamza, Moskayen' Of ovtay, Nuyakshon' Of parush, Virdyanon' Of pichay, Syresen' Of kavtas', Kirdyaen' Of kulyas. With the analysis of the housing of traditional female names attention is drawn to the category of names, which can be named dibasic, moreover without fail containing as the second basis word ava: Anava (Inyava, Onava), Azra VA (Azrafka, Asrava), Ashava (Oshava), Valdava (Val'dyava, Voldava), Vidyava (Vedyavka, Vadava), Vezhav, vergava, Virtyava, Kanyava (Kanyuva, Kunava, Kunavka), Litava (Litova), Liyava, Mazava (Mozyava, Mozava, Mozyavka), Nulzyava (Nulzyavka), Ordava, Parava (Porava), Pokshava, Potyava, Ravzhava, Ruzava, Sernyava, Sochava (Sochefka), Syryava, Sinyava (Sinevka), Tetyava (Tedyava), Tundava, Chin'dyava (Shindyava), Cherava (Cheravka), Shonzhava, Elyuva, Yalgava (Yalgavka), etc.
Some of the names indicated were initially not at all the same, but they came out as the social terms, which designated, in particular, daughters-in-law.
On these terms as family titles, depended the rights and the responsibilities of daughters-in-law in the large, undivided, Mordvinian families, which composed the specific, strictly reglamentirovannuyu hierarchical system. "the names, which were given to molodushkam, established M.
ye. yevsev'ev, Mordvinian scientist of the beginning OF THE XX C. - in erzi was six: Mazava (beautiful woman), Ashava (white woman), Parava (good woman), Vezhava (junior woman), Syrnyava (gold woman) and Tyatyava (value forgotten). First four were most commonly used of them, moreover first three were given to elder daughters-in-law and in what it is convenient order, and Vezhava was given to always junior daughter-in-law ". In this role they partly exist, until now, in mordvymokshi without the addition of the word of ava (mA after the "wife of elder brother", tyazya "wife of the second brother", vyazha "wife of the third brother", pava "fourth", tyatya "fifth").
The identically formed titles, which became then simply names, mordva also called not only daughters-in-law, but also women, who had in their time in the Mordvinian society another social status.
For example, by the titles of kirdyava, inyava, most likely, were called the wives of Mordvinian rulers - kirdi, of inyazorov, kanazorov (from ine "great", azor "owner, ruler"; Kahn is the "khan", azor "owner, ruler"); by the term of pokshava (from poksh "large, large", ava "woman") styled the wives of pokshtyaev - the chapters of patriarchal it was ancestral (from poksh of "large"; atya "old man"), and with the term of azrava (from azor "owner, mistress", ava "woman") - the wife of kudatey or kudazoratey - the chapters of large patriarchal families (from kudo house ", azor" owner ", atya" old man"). All these tituly, which designated the social position of various women in the Mordvinian society, then, moreover in the different time, they were converted into antroponimy - Kirdyava, Inyava (Onava, Anava), ditch (Kanyava, Kanyuva, Kunava, Kunyavka), Pokshava, Asrava (Azrava, Azrafka), Megurka, Mel'shay, Nezayka, Nyayka, Nyal'ka, Olota, Oshama, Pekshayka, Pemka, Poshayka, Potekay, Putyayka, Sangasa, Seyamka, Sanal'ka, Serzhay, Setyamka, Siyamka, Styaka, galipot (Syrka), Slyugan'ka, Tatka, Toyaksha, Tikshayka, Tundya, Tekay (Tekayka), Unzhutka, Upurga, Utyayka, Chindyayka, Chinzhay, Chindyapa, Chechama (Chechamka), Chenksa, Chitska, Chichayka, Shukshtoroyka, etc. On the analogous model arose the Mordvinian female name Of ruzava (from ruz "Russian, Russian", ava "woman"), which served for the designation of Russian on the nationality of daughter-in-law in the Mordvinian family.
In connection with the fact that in the Mordvinian languages there is no grammatical gender, to distinguish Mordvinian man and female names is not simply, especially when they come out without the context.
This does not concern the names, which contain as the second basis the word of ava. Furthermore, the same names frequently could come out both as the female and the man, which is confirmed by data of written documents.
So, name To shinde was noted in THE XVIII century as female, but it is encountered and as man - Shindyay. The same can be said about names burst, Malyaka, Andyamo (Andyamka), Nalka, Tikshayka, Meltsayka, Kichay, Velmayka, Inzhay, Varaka, Pokshayka, Putyayka, Setyamka. Syrka, Chichayka, etc. The Mordvinian custom of narecheniya of name - lemdema (Mordvinian lem "name", lemdyams "to name") - practiced up to the middle OF THE XIX century.
Midwife mandrel named name as follows: on prineseniyu of "yurtazor" and "yurtazorave", "kudazor" and to "kudazorave" (to patrons of house) and to the dead ancestors of blagodar of the stvennoy victim for the gift of baby midwife mandrel forced kogolibo to hold overhead of the newly born baby entire that baked of pirogues, and itself was taken other and, knocking by bread against the bread, which they held overhead of baby, it pronounced the following words: "I give to you name...". Mordva attached great significance to the selection of happy name.
For its searches the father of baby left to the street, and the first object or essence, which fell to it on eyes, it became the name of child. The substantiation of this selection was the fact that once the encountered person or object exists, it is in good health, which means, will live and be in good health newborn. Mordvinian "heathen" names could be given, also, after baptism together with the Christian, obtained in the church.
But gradually, in connection with the christianization, Mordvinian original names began to be used as the second names, then as nicknames and finally they were finally extruded Christian. MORDOVSKOTYURKSKIYE ETNOKUL'TURNYE CONNECTIONS ACCORDING TO THE DATA OF IMENNIKA Mordovskotyurkskiye etnokul'turnye contacts, after beginning from second-half OF THE I millenium n.

3., continuously they continue up to the present time. On the calculations of linguists, in the contemporary Mordvinian languages are more than two hundred Turkish adoptions, and also antroponimy. Some of the names, borrowed from the Turkish peoples, were preserved as the bases of surnames, which exist in mordvy and at present: Abaykin - on behalf Of abay, Akaykin - Akay, Of akmayev - Akmay, Of alyamkin - Alyam, Arapov - moor, Araslankin - Araslan, Arkaykin - Arkay, Asmankin - Assmann, Ayushev - Ayush, Bazarkin - Bazar, Baburov - Babur, Bashkaykin - Bashkay, Bekaykin - Bekay, Bektyashkin - Bektyash, Bekshayev - Bekshay, Bikeykin - Bikey, Bilyarkin - Bilyar, Bulatkin - Damascus steel, Diveyev - Divey, Dugushkin - Dugush, Zhiganov - Zhigan, Isabaykin - Isabay, Islamkin - Islam, Kabayev - Kabay, Kadorkin - Kador, Kamayev - Kamay, Kanaykin - Kanay, Kasimkin - Kasim, Chinas - China, Kolganov - Kolgan, ku of manev, Kuman'kin, Kumanyaev - Kuman, Kunyaev - Kunyay, Mamaykin - Mamay, Murzayev - Murzay, Murzakayev - Murzakay, Mustaykin - Mustay, Nazimkin - Nazim, Nacharkin - Nachar, Saygushev, Saytushkyn - Saygush, Sakalkin - Sakal, Saraykin - Saray, Sultanov - sultan, Tolmayev - Tolmay, Tyugayev - Tyugay, Tyuganov - Tyugan, Tyugashkin - Tyugash, Uraskin - Uras, Chebaykin - Chebay, Chelmatkin - Chelmat, Chembulatov - Chembulat, Shizhganov/Shishkanov - Shizhgan, Yurtayev, Yurtaikin - Yurtay, Yamashkin - Yamash, Yaushev - Yaush, etc.
MORDOVSKORUSSKIYE ETNOKUL'TURNYE CONNECTIONS ACCORDING TO THE DATA OF IMENNIKA the old connections of mordvy with the Russians led to the fact that even among "heathen" mordvy began to be extended the Old-Russian, "heathen" names, which, in spite of the baptism, which was begun in 988 year, they did not go out of use among the medium Russians themselves up to THE XVIII century, coexisting with the Christian.

Most popular mordvy had from the Russian not calendar names: Bazhay, Bazhan, Altocumulus, Belyay, Besson, Besstuzh, Bogdan, Bol'shoyka, Borey, Boris, Boyars, Burnay, Burnak, Burnash, Brawler, Voinko, Gostyay, Lip, Nine, By the ninth, Dergun, Deryab, Dobrinya, Dobrysh, Dolgay, Dorogay/Dorogoy, Guard, Duray, Durnay, To zhaday/Zhadey, Harvester, Zhdan, Desire, Zhivay, It is liquid.
Zavaryukha, impurity, yawn, languor, guelder rose, fed, breaking, we love, are small, lad, bevel, Maloy/Malyy, little-one, Men'shoy, Milush, Milyay, Molchan, Mordvinko, Morozka, hope, hope, Nazhalka, is named, found, Neveshka, undersow, Neklyud, mute, Nenash, Nesmeyan, are bad, Nechay, Nizovka, Novay, Novokay, on we conduct, Pozdey/Pozdyay, Polezhay, fun, police officer, Pushkarka, by the first, Petay, Pyatunka, by heel, Raday, scatter, Rebrush, bit, are Russian, Rus'ka, Ryzhay, scouring, the small fish, Svyatka, grey, dove-coloured, Sitka, eastern bluebird, Slushka, Smirka, Smol'ka, Starka/Starko, Sudyay, Sumorok, Sukhan, Dry, Tatar, Toropka, Tret'yachko, Tuzhilka, Udalka, Umnyashka, Upyrka, Khramoy, Thin, Khudyak, Gipsies, Tsypkay, Chernyay, Four, Chetyrka, Chuvashko, Chuday, Chuzhay, Shestak, Shiryay, Shumilka. From the Russians of mordva it began to receive Christian names.
The first Christian name, testified in mordvy, is Abraham (Abramka). On Atemarskoy desyatne 1669 - 1670, was registered "stanitsa Mordvinian murzy, which serve on saransk stanitsa service on Chardane, verstannye" with the following surnames: Verzagin, Volgomatov, Baykov, Bashatov, Istomin, Moskayev, Sustatov, Tepayev; about one-and-a-half hundred not verstannykh: Alov, Anasev, Atyaev, Adushev, Bazhen, Bozhatov, Vedyashov, Devayev, Kapasov, Kobayev, Kochatov, Kuchayev, Makulov, Palmanov, Satayev, Tarshtanov, Tyazyaev, Tumayev, etc.
Penza, atemarskiye, verkhnelomovskiye, Kerenskiys desyatni, in whom is given the enumeration of "municipal nobles and children of boyars'" they testify that the number of Mordvinian princes and murz was sufficiently much.
Thus, Penza desyatnya of 1677 calls the princes Of mokshazarova, Kulunzina, Mokshadeyeva, murzknyazey Anemasova, Radayeva, murz of Alemasov, Alyakina, Vel'mayeva, Vedenyapina, Zhivayeva, Kudyusheva, Lemayeva, Mamaev, Mordvintsova, Moseyeva, Paldamasova, Parovatova, Poldyasova, Pinyaeva, Pileseva, Polumordvinova, Rizovatova, Syreseva, Simdyanova, Trenina, Cherevatova, Yausheva. The surname Of mokshazarov is formed from the Mordvinian pre-Christian dibasic name Of mokshazar (from moksha+azor "owner, owner"), Mokshadeyev - on behalf Of mokshadey.
Names of such type (on Day) in mordvy was sufficiently much: The arzhadey, Paradey, Surodey, Tumodey, Chichadey and other large part of the surnames of murz named above it has by basis the Mordvinian personal names: Adush, Alemas, Anemas. Alyaka, Vedenyapa, Vedyash, Velmay, Volgomat, Kapas, Kochat, Kuchay, Lemay, Moskay, Paravat, pilus, Pinyay, Poldyas, Rizovat, Satay, Simdyan, Sustat, cheese, Tezyay, Tepay, Tumay, Cherevat, etc. Change in the Mordvinian name in the Russian (calendar), that occurred in essence in the course of christianization, was the prolonged process, which were extended up to the middle OF THE XIX century. In the the novokreshchenykh in the use was for long both Christian and pre-Christian names simultaneously.
Russian Christian names were adapted in the Mordvinian languages with respect to their regularities. For example, in the erzyamordovskom language Avdotya began to call Olday, Agrafenu (Agripina) - Okro, Aksinia - Oksya, Akulina - Okol', Aleksandr - Leso, Aleksandr - Les, Anisya - Anse, Anton - Onton, Artem - Arte, Barbara - Varo, Gabriel - Gaore, Grigoriy - Drigo, Darya - gift, Dorofeya - Dora, Zakhara - Zakar, Yegor - Yegor', Ignatius - Igo, Martha - Markv, Maria - Mare, Matvei - Mate, Nikifor - Mikikor, Nikolai - Mikol', to Theodotia - Kvedo, Fedor - Kvedor, Philipp - Kvile, to Thomas - Kom, to Pellagea - Pole, Sergey - link, Timofeya - Timo, Khariton - Kariton, etc.
Russian name initially was used as the second after strictly Mordvinian, then both began to function on the level, after some time Russian, usually Christian, name began to protrude in the first place, and Mordvinian fell back to the second, and finally Russian completely replaced the Mordvinian: thus, in one document of 1750 was spoken "pomordovski Ucheska Zhdanov, and porusski Dmitriy kornilov...
" THE PRINCIPLES OF THE FORMATION OF SURNAMES in MORDVY the basis of many surnames of mordvy composed Mordvinian pre-Christian personal names, Russian pre-Christian personal names, Christian names, larger the partly Greek origin, perceived also from the Russians in proportion to the christianization of mordvy and propagation among it of Russian culture, some doislamskiye and Islamic names, mainly tyurkoarabskogo origin. Introduction into the Mordvinian medium of names and especially surnames of Russian model was connected not so much with the christianization, as with the needs of state office management. Nominal confusion created the large difficulties of power of the state in the calculation of population, the apportionment, taxes, conducting the judicial matters, the search of quick peasants, etc. Of surnames to mordve gave usually Russian svyashchennikimissionery and together with them officials, landowners, producing them in essence from the name of father or from his prozvishchnogo name according to the type of Russian surnames on OV, eating, 1n, k/in, onkov, yenkov, skiy.
The part of the surnames was produced from the names populated areas, including from nominal toponimov, especially with the suffix of skiy, etnonimov of mordva, moksha, erzya. since by patronymics or as prozvishchnymi patronymics in mordvy to the baptism more frequently came out strictly Mordvinian personal names, they proved to be fixed in the bases of the surnames on OV produced from them: Algasov, Antyasov, Atyasov, Vel'matov, Vel'mesov, Vilyasov, Viryasov, Vodyakov, Into dyasov, Yenivatov, Kezhivatov, Kel'ganov, Kidyashov, Kochevatov, Kochkomazov, Lemdyasov, Lopasov, Pilesev, Parvatov; on eating: Valdayev, Vechkayev, Vidyaev, Kavtozeyev, Kandayev, Kel'gayev, Kirzhayev, Kochkayev, Kulayev, Kumakshev, Lemesev, Maskayev, Nushtayev; on it is other: Alyakshin, Ashapin, Vel'makin, Vidyakin, Kechin, Kudapin, Kudosin, Kshnyakin, Melyakin, Narakshin, Pakshin, Piksin, P'yanzin, Ruzavin, Syresin, Shindin; to k/in: Azorkin, Alemaskin, Arzamaskin, Atsapkin, Vedyashkin, Vel'maykin, veryaskin, Vidyaykin, Inevatkin, Inzhevatkin, Kavtaykin, Kazhapkin, Kechemaykin, Kiushkin, Kechutkin, Kochevatkin, Ledyaykin, Liyaskin, Naraykin, Nurapkin, Paksevatkin, Pandaskin, Piksaykin, Piskaykin, Porvatkin; to yenkov/ of enkov: Kovtoyenkov, Maksenkov, Parisenkov, Purisenkov, Syresenkov; on skiy: Akshevskiy, Boltasevskiy, Kil'dyushevskiy, Mokshanskiy, Mordvinian, Sabayevskiy, Simileyskiy, Sul'dinskiy. Probably, from the Russian prozvishchnykh patronymics are produced those existing and now among mordvy of a surname of the type Of bezborodov (it is true, there is Russian name it is beardless), Bezzubov, Bezrukov, Gorbunov, Kosolapov, Krivoshchekov, Krivonogov, Krivorotov, Krivosheyev (there are the Russian names Krivoshey - man, Krivosheya - female), Riabov, etc.
Some surnames, probably, were given on the model of the corresponding Russian surnames via the transfer of their basis into the Mordvinian languages - familiikal'ki: Akshakov (moksh. of aksha "white") - white hares, Atyakshev (atyaksh "rooster") - Petukhov, Ver'gezov (ver'giz "wolf") - is Volkov, Kansarin (kansero "hemp seed") - Konoplin, Kelaskin (moksh. of kelaz' "fox, fox") - Lisitzin, Numolov (numolo "hare") - hares, Panarkin (panar "jacket") - Rubashkin, Pizelkin (pizel "rowan") - Ryabinkin, Pis'merov (pis'mar "starling") - Skvortsov, Revin (roar "sheep") - Ovtsyn, Saraskin (saraz "hen") - Kuritsyn, Tuvin (tuvo "pig" - Svin'in, Chavkin (chavka "jackdaw") - Galkin, Shichavin (shichav "flea") - Blokhin, Shepaksov (moksh.
of shapaks of "dough") - tests, Shumbasov (MOK of shumbaz "hare") - hares, etc.
A significant quantity of Mordvinian of surname, that exist at present, they contain at their basis the pre-Christian Mordvinian personal name: Azrapkin - Azrapa, Andyasov - Andyas, Arsevatkin - Arsevat, Arzamaskin - Arzamas, Valgayev - Valgay, Vedyapkin - Vedyapa, Inevatkin - Inevat, Kavtozeyev - Kavtozey, Kochevatkin - Kochevat, Kizhevatkin, Kizhevatov - Kizhevat, Kinyakin - Kinyaka, Kirdin, Kirdyaev - Kirdyai, Kirendyasov - Kirendyas, Kirdyapin - Kirdyapa, Kol'tyapin - Kol'tyapa, Kudapin - Kudapa, Kshnyakin - Kshnyaka, Lemdyasov - Lemdyas, Liyaskin - Liyas, Mazyarkin - Mazyargo, Naraykin - Naray, Narvatkin - Narvat Of odushkin - Odush, Of otingeyev - Otingey, Pandaskin - Pandas, Piksayev, Piksaykin - Piksay, Paksyutov - Paksyut, Rizayev - Rizay, Simdyashkin - Simdyash, Sindyaev - Sindyay, Tenyakshev - Tenyaksha, Tuvayev - Tuvay, Tulayev, Tulaykin, Tulaykov - Tulay, Uchayev, Uchaykin - Uchay, Tsindyaykin - Tsindyay, Chinyaev - Chinyay, Chevtaykin - Chevtay, Yangaykin - Yangay, etc. A number of Mordvinian surnames is created on the basis of the prozvishchnykh patronymics: Kevbrin (kev "stone", prya "head"), Sermavbrin (sermav "motley", prya "head", Uchambrin (moksh, teaching "sheep", prya "head"), etc. They are widespread in contemporary mordvy of surname basis of which it goes back to the pre-Christian (nekhristianskim) Russian names: Belyayev, Belyaykin - Belyay, Borisov, Boriskin - Boris, Buyankin - Brawler, Vorozheykin - Vorozhey, Gulyaykin - Go for a walk Devyatayev - Devyatay, Devyatkin - Nine, Dolgayev - Dolgay, Durnaykin - Durnay, Zhivayev, Zhivaykin - Zhivay, Zhadyaev, Zhadyaykin - Zhadyay, Zevaykin - Yawn, Kalinkin - Guelder rose, Kruchinkin - Sorrow, Kuslyaykin - Kuslyaiy, Lyubimkin - We love, Malkin - Bevel, Maloykin - Small, Malyshev - Little-one, Milushkin - Milush, Nadezhkin - Nadezha, Nazvanov - It is named, Nedoseykin - Nedosey, Nemtsev - German, Pervoykin - By the first, Polezhaykin - Polezhay, Pyatoykin - By heel, Sedoykin - Grey, Slavkin - glory, Chudayev, Chudaykin - Chuday, Chuzhaykin - Chuzhay, Radayev, Radaykin - Raday, Shalyaev, Shalyay, Shiryaev, Shiryaykin - Shiryay, Shumilkin - Shumila, Yaroslavkin - Yaroslav, etc. The Christian calendar names, which were being extended among mordvy in proportion to christianization, were used how in Russians themselves, with the umen'shitel'nounichizhitel'nym russskim suffix ka/ko. So usually the representatives of ruling class disdainfully named peasants. This antroponimicheskoye inequality was the continuation of the inequality of the social: ".
.
.
where the people deal in people, where the people themselves call not names, but by the nicknames: By van'kami, By vas'kami, By steshkami, By palashkami "(V.
g. Belinskiy) these surnames, which are not been purely Mordvinian, it is wide raspostraneny among mordvy: Abros'kin, Avdeykin, Avdyushkin, Ageykin, Akashkin, Aksyutkin. Aleshkin, Anis'kin, Antipkin, Antoshkin, Arzyutkin, Ariskin, Arkhipkin, Astashkin, Boreykin, Vavilkin, Vantyaykin, Vanyashkin, Varlashkin, Vasil'kin, Vas'kin, Vlaskin, Volod'kin, Gavrilkin, Geras'kin, Grigor'kin, Davydkin, Danilkin, Dar'kin, Demyashkin, Deniskin, Dorozhkin, Doron'kin, Dunyushkin, Yevgrashchkin, Yevstifeykin, Yegorkin, Yeliseykin, Yeles'kin, Yemel'kin, Yepishkin, Yeremkin, Yeremochkin, Yermaykin, Yermushkin, Yeryashkin, Yefimkin, Zakharkin, Zinkin, Zor'kin, Zotkin, Ivashkin, Ignatkin, Igon'kin, Igushkin, Izmalkin, Isaykin, Ityaykin, Ishutkin, Karpun'kin, Kiryushkin, Klimkin, Kondrashkin, Kornishkin, Kostyushkin, Kuzyutkin, Kupryashkin, Lar'kin, Levkin, Lushkin, Makareykin, Makarkin, Maksimkin, Mares'kin, Matyushkin, Merkushkin, Min'kin, Miroshkin, Mitreykin, Mitron'kin, Mitroshkin, Mityushkin, Mikhalkin, Mokeykin, Nazarkin, Nastyushkin, Naumkin, Nesterkin, Nefedkin, Nikishkin, Nikolashkin, Nikulushkin, Oshkin, Os'kin, Pankin, Pal'kin, Pan'kin, Panteleykin, Panfilkin, Panyushkin, Pelageykin, Petryaykin, Pol'kin, Potapkin, Pron'kin, Rod'kin, Romashkin, Savkin, Samsonkin, Sviridkin, Selivankin, Semenkin, Sergushkin, Stepaykin, Stepkin, Stepushkin, Taraskin, Tereshkin, Timoshkin, Tikhankin, Tishkin, Trifankin, Troshkin, Ul'kin, Ul'yankin, Ustimkin, Fadeykin, Fat'kin, Fed'kin, Fedoseykin, Fedos'kin, Fedotkin, Fedyashkin, Fedyun'kin, Felomeykin, Filatkin Of filyankin, Firstkin, Fokapkin, Fomkin, Frolkin, Eryamkin, Yushkin, Yakushkin, Yankin, Yas'kin, Yashkin Vol. p. The surnames, which contain at their basis of etnonimy of mordva, moksha, erzya or personal names, produced from these etnonimov, are extended not only among mordvy, but also among the Russians. They testify about the Mordvinian origin of their initial carriers. there are sufficiently many surnames of this type: Mordvanyuk, Mordvilko, Mordvin, Mordvinenko, Mordvinkin, Mordvinov, Mordvintsev, Mordvintsov, Mordvishev, Mordvishin, Mordvov, Mordovets, Mordovin, Mordovkin, Mordovochkin, Mordvinian, Mordvinian, Mordovtsev, Mordovchenko, Polumordvinov; Mokshabayev, Mokshadeyev, Mokshayev, Mokshazarov, Mokshakin Of mokshanin, Mokshanikhin, Mokshankin, Mokshanov, Mokshanskiy, Mokshantsev, Moksharev, Moksheyev, Mokshin; Erzin, Erzyaykin, Erzyakayev, Erzyamayev, Erzyukov, Erzyutkini Vol. p. Many centuries of mordva and Russians lived side by side, continuously proceeded process to their rapprochements. Russians with the Mordvinian surnames are frequent.
But in some villages of family with one and the same surname are written in documents some - Russians, others - mordva. There is another number of the contemporary surnames of mordvy, on which to one degree or another it is possible to determine the initial ethnic belonging of their carriers. They contain at their basis the pre-Christian Mordvinian personal name ili another Mordvinian word: Avakshin, Azorkin, Azyasev, Alyakin, Andyasov, Arzamaskin, Atyun'kin, Atyasov, Ashayev, Ashalgin, Ashapin, Bakshtayev, Bartsaykin, Bodyakshin, Bolyaev, Boczkais, Varzhin, Vedyapkin, Velin, Vel'miskin, Vel'mov, Veshkin, Vidmanov, Vodyakov, Yendolov, Zhochkin, Ikomaskin, Inevatkin, Ineleyev, Ityaev, Kal'matayev, Kalyavin, Kamashkin, Kendyalov, Kechin, Kichapkin, Kichkazov, Koldorkin, Kochkarev, Kuvakin, Kuvin, Kudavnin, Kulyumov, Kurkin, Kushtapin, Kyazhkin, Levshchankin, Lezin, Lokshin, Lukshin, Mezin, Naldin, Numov, Nurapkin, Nurdygin, Oftin, Ochkin, Pakshtyaev, Pandaskin, Parakshin, Parkine, Pekshkin, Pelin, Pelyaykin, Pet'kelev, Pechkazov, Pinemasov, Pis'markin, Podsevatkin, Pozakshin, Pokshivanov, Poksaraskin, Poromzin, Potyakin, pools, Purgayev, Purtsakin, Puryakov, Pyreye'ev, Ravkin, Ravochkin, Raksin, Rakshin, Rangayev, Rauzhin, Revizov, Sakalkin, Sevonev, Suleyev, Sul'dyaev, Telin, Uryavin, Tsymdyaykin, Chenksnev, Shakshin, Shanzhayev, Sheksheyev, Shindyaskin, Shukshin, Shuftaykin, Shtatolkin, Shchankin, Yuftaykin, Yaksyargin, Yakshamkin, etc.







BTW, I hadn't (found any to) put any Mordvin names in the Volga list.

 

[Calgacus]

SL, thanks.

I'll look into Emba and Aral. Serbian catholics are a mistake.

 

[Calgacus]

Hungarians

1066 AD

1187 AD

1337 AD

Finellach, you have Hungarian retreating, losing ground to Vlach. Is that right?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Finellach, you have Hungarian retreating, losing ground to Vlach. Is that right?

That's odd, from what I've read since that earlier incident about Bacs province is that the Temes Province should Vlach, infact even in Finellach's 1066 map it's Vlach, Bihar as well is Vlach in Finellach's own map.

 

[Calgacus]

That's odd, from what I've read since that earlier incident about Bacs province is that the Temes Province should Vlach, infact even in Finellach's 1066 map it's Vlach, Bihar as well is Vlach in Finellach's own map.

Yeah, well ... I'll need to wait.

I'm working on the maps just now, but I'll wait until Finellach comes back before releasing them. And, of course, implementing the new FInnic tags.

 

[Calgacus]

Semi-Lobster, do you have any thoughts about anglicizing either Angus or Strathclyde for the 1337 map?

and the slightly contradictory:

With the Stewarts about to come in, I think Scotland ought to be just a little more English.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I'm hardly anexpert on Scots Gaelic, I don't own as many sources as other contributing members, I am fairly certain though that Strathclyde would still be Gaelic speaking as of the early 15th century, if places like Ayrshire and Galloway still where sending Gaelic speaking settlers to Ulster in the 17th century then I'm sure that Strathclyde (the CK proivnce sorta corresponds with Ayrshire) should be Gaelic. Eastern Scotland though, I have no clue.

 

[Calgacus]

No, well, I wasn't asking because of presumed knowledge (which is why I posted the maps), just as a matter of judgment.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

BTW, I hadn't (found any to) put any Mordvin names in the Volga list.

How about making up a list of mostly those Mordvin names and mixing the few certain Mari names into the mix, instead of using a mix-and-match of Finnish, Lappish and other names?

 

[Calgacus]

How about making up a list of mostly those Mordvin names and mixing the few certain Mari names into the mix, instead of using a mix-and-match of Finnish, Lappish and other names?

Researching the map, the Mari do not actually take up more than a couple of provinces, namely 401, and debatedly, 402. I can therefore disregard them.

But ought I to given the Finns their territory, the Mordivns or the Perm? (both groups also inhabit province 402).

EDIT: What I really mean is, should their names go to the Mordvins, or the Perm?

 

[Mad King James]

Mari are closer to Mordvin than Perm, both linguistically, culturally and geographically.

 

[Calgacus]

OK, so I'll put a Mordvin list together, and mix it with a few of the Mari names.

 

[Calgacus]

The names here are pretty pure. Haven't taken any from the Mani, Khant, Mansi or Finns. There are a couple of Russian and Turkic derived names, but these were in use by the Mordvin.

swedish;female;Anava
swedish;female;Azra-Va
swedish;female;Ashava
swedish;female;Asrava
swedish;female;Chechama
swedish;female;Chenksa
swedish;female;Cherava
swedish;female;Chichayka
swedish;female;Chindyapa
swedish;female;Chindyayka
swedish;female;Chinzhay
swedish;female;Chitska
swedish;female;Elyuva
swedish;female;Inyava
swedish;female;Kanyava
swedish;female;Kanyuva
swedish;female;Kirdyava
swedish;female;Kunava
swedish;female;Kunyavka
swedish;female;Litava
swedish;female;Liyava
swedish;female;Mazava
swedish;female;Megurka
swedish;female;Mel'shay
swedish;female;Nezayka
swedish;female;Nulzyava
swedish;female;Nyal'ka
swedish;female;Nyayka
swedish;female;Olota
swedish;female;Ordava
swedish;female;Oshama
swedish;female;Parava
swedish;female;Pekshayka
swedish;female;Pemka
swedish;female;Pokshava
swedish;female;Poshayka
swedish;female;Potekay
swedish;female;Potyava
swedish;female;Putyayka
swedish;female;Ravzhava
swedish;female;Ruzava
swedish;female;Sanal'ka
swedish;female;Sangasa
swedish;female;Sernyava
swedish;female;Serzhay
swedish;female;Setyamka
swedish;female;Seyamka
swedish;female;Shonzhava
swedish;female;Shukshtoroyka
swedish;female;Siyamka
swedish;female;Sinyava
swedish;female;Slyugan'ka
swedish;female;Sochava
swedish;female;Styaka
swedish;female;Syryava
swedish;female;Tatka
swedish;female;Tekay
swedish;female;Tetyava
swedish;female;Tikshayka
swedish;female;Toyaksha
swedish;female;Tundava
swedish;female;Tundya
swedish;female;Unzhutka
swedish;female;Upurga
swedish;female;Utyayka
swedish;female;Valdava
swedish;female;Vergava
swedish;female;Vezhav
swedish;female;Vidyava
swedish;female;Virtyava
swedish;female;Yalgava
swedish;male;Altocumulus
swedish;male;Andyamo
swedish;male;Chichayka
swedish;male;Dergun
swedish;male;Deryab
swedish;male;Dobrinya
swedish;male;Inzhay
swedish;male;Kezhapa
swedish;male;Kezhay
swedish;male;Kezhedey
swedish;male;Kezhevat
swedish;male;Kichay
swedish;male;Malyaka
swedish;male;Malyy
swedish;male;Meltsayka
swedish;male;Mordvinko
swedish;male;Nalka
swedish;male;Nuyaksha
swedish;male;Nuyanza
swedish;male;Nuyat
swedish;male;Ovtay
swedish;male;Pakstyan
swedish;male;Paksyay
swedish;male;Paksyut
swedish;male;Parush
swedish;male;Pivtsay
swedish;male;Pokshayka
swedish;male;Putyayka
swedish;male;Setyamka
swedish;male;Shindyay
swedish;male;Syrka
swedish;male;Tikshayka
swedish;male;Tyuey-kezhut
swedish;male;Uchva
swedish;male;Varaka
swedish;male;Vechkas
swedish;male;Velmayka
swedish;male;Virdyan
swedish;male;Viryas
swedish;male;Viryay