Grand Culture Mod (Thread 2: Continuation of Finellach's)

[unmerged(27913)]

Geez you decided to go ahead with Turkish/Turkic instead of Oghuz/Oghur/Kipchak?

Exactly...it looks terrible...not only that but he added East and West Norse?!?!

Btw. I forgot to add Frankish should also be used instead of French...which is also a modern term.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Why isn't Exeter Cornish? Hopefully you didn't confuse my early comments, what I was reffering to was the 1187 map, not the 1066 map.

Also you wheren't convinced about the presence of Persian peoples living in the Dihistan and Turkmen provinces in 1066?

And did you make the Bolgars 'Turkish' as opposed to 'Turkic', I though Turkish was only going to be applied to Oghuz Turks while everything else would be 'Turkic', also I know you seemed pretty set in stone over the names but could 'Oghuz' be a better name then 'Turkish'? BTW though, I still like my '3 Turks idea' more then this set up

I'm not going to get into the Norse thing, but really, the difference between the Norse was less then the German and Italian dialects, I don't really see the point of removing Swedish if you're not going to 'all the way'

 

[Calgacus]

And did you make the Bolgars 'Turkish' as opposed to 'Turkic', I though Turkish was only going to be applied to Oghuz Turks while everything else would be 'Turkic', also I know you seemed pretty set in stone over the names but could 'Oghuz' be a better name then 'Turkish'?

Islamic (Turkish) versus non-islamic (kipchak).

 

[Calgacus]

Exactly...it looks terrible...not only that but he added East and West Norse?!?!

Finellach, my understanding of the consensus was that Scandinavian should be regrouped into two tags, not one.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Finellach, my understanding of the consensus was that Scandinavian should be regrouped into two tags, not one.

I'e read the comments and I didn't get the same feeling. It seems to me that msot people really seupport the unification of Norsemen into one tag. I really don't see the problem. Besides North and West Norse sounds really arrtificial.

However I like your Lappish-Finnish spread...it's looks good, although Lapps are a bit too south in Fenno-Scandia to my taste.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

However I like your Lappish-Finnish spread...it's looks good, although Lapps are a bit too south in Fenno-Scandia to my taste.

The habitation of Lapps in Finland has been proven by our own resident Finn and demi-mod Byakhiam

 

[Calgacus]

Make Permic Finns as Lappish.

Permic Finns Lapps? Are you sure? All the way from Karelia to Zyriane?
I wouldn't never have thought of them in that way, after all they put up quite a fight with the Novgorodians in the fur trade.

 

[Calgacus]

I'e read the comments and I didn't get the same feeling. It seems to me that msot people really seupport the unification of Norsemen into one tag. I really don't see the problem. Besides North and West Norse sounds really arrtificial.

Oh, I agree with the artificial thing. I'll wait for the Scandinavians to come and comment.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

The habitation of Lapps in Finland has been proven by our own resident Finn and demi-mod Byakhiam

Well I don't question the setup but it seems to me that the problem is in the shape of the provinces...they are too big. IMO Savolaks and Karelia(Karelen) should be, in their southern parts, Finnish...especially Karelen.

Btw. my I question the Frisian tag? Were they really so different from other Teutons? Also can someone post(or point me) the names for Frisian culture?
Also are names for Dutch culture valid for Flemish?

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Permic Finns Lapps? Are you sure? All the way from Karelia to Zyriane?
I wouldn't never have thought of them in that way, after all they put up quite a fight with the Novgorodians in the fur trade.

I think Permics are more closer to Samoyeds or Sámi than Finns or Mordvins.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention it earlier (sorry about that), but Österbotten is better as Finnish than Lappish. My loaned book about Sámi tells that Sámi lived mostly in northern and eastern Finland, so having them in Österbotten would be wrong. Kajanaborg and Karelen however look very good.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well I don't question the setup but it seems to me that the problem is in the shape of the provinces...they are too big. IMO Savolaks and Karelia(Karelen) should be, in their southern parts, Finnish...especially Karelen.

Karelen's Finnish inhabitation was only on the very coast of lake Lagoda. So in a very thin strip of vast Karelen province. There definetly were Sámi living in central and north parts of the province.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Also you have Aland as Finnish, I've never heard any evidence that it has ever been anything but Norse

 

[Calgacus]

Btw. my I question the Frisian tag? Were they really so different from other Teutons? Also can someone post(or point me) the names for Frisian culture?
Also are names for Dutch culture valid for Flemish?

Frisians, unlike Flemings (whose language is more similar to German apparently), were called Germans; the language matter, as MKJ argued, made it difficult to call them Germans.

 

[Hallsten]

However I like your Lappish-Finnish spread...it's looks good, although Lapps are a bit too south in Fenno-Scandia to my taste.

Agreed.
Österbotten should be Finnish, aside from that I'm ok with the Finno-Scandinavian part of the map.
Merging the Samoyeds in northern Russia with the Lappish culture is like if you'd merge French and German. Please don't, it looks creepy...


Also, the Turkish/Turkic-setup needs work. I'm all in favour of MKJ's proposition which IMHO is the best one put forward sofar.


EDIT: I missed Åland, it should definately be Norse as mentioned below and above...

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Also you have Aland as Finnish, I've never heard any evidence that it has ever been anything but Norse

That's true, it should be Norse.

 

[Calgacus]

Also you have Aland as Finnish, I've never heard any evidence that it has ever been anything but Norse

LOL ... if you look closely, you'll see they aren't finish. They are the color the Swedes used to be. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Merging the Samoyeds in northern Russia with the Lappish culture is like if you'd merge French and German. Please don't, it looks creepy...

Should Samoyeds be Finnish instead?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

OK some more comments on the map.

Basque - I don't know why you made Rioja Basque all over again. Yes Rioja was part of Navarrese kingdom at some point but people were Castilian. Also having Basques going so much into France is also wrong....Labourd is quite enough...in fact even having that whole province as basque is a bit too much but it's ok. So I suggest resize Basque to as it was before.

Vlach - Vlachs in Maramarsos in 1066 scenario is wrong. This area was Rus and even today the area holds quite significant Ruthenian majority.

Arab - Arabs in Tunis is wrong. This area was center of Berber Zirid kingdom, the border between Arabs and Berbers in N.Africa was Kairouan-Tunis border. Kariouan was founded around 1060 from which the Arabization spread....1066 is still too early for Tunis to be Arab.
In Iberia you should remove Arab culture from Lisboa and Toledo and make them Berber, instead Cadiz and Seville should be Arab.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Also can you upload a bigger version of the map like Finellach did Calgacus, some of the individual provinces are sort of hard to see

 

[Styrbiorn]

I'm not going to get into the Norse thing, but really, the difference between the Norse was less then the German and Italian dialects, I don't really see the point of removing Swedish if you're not going to 'all the way'

In 1066 true, in 1250 not even close. The game covers four full centuries. I repeat that I don't see any reason to merge the Scandinavian cultures while splitting others that would be about as close/different from each other as these. Looks like change of the sake of change. Finellach is right about the artificiality though. West/East Norse is only a linguistic term, and no one has ever called a people like that. In fact it's worse than just having a single culture, which I don't like either.