Grand Culture Mod (Thread 2: Continuation of Finellach's)

[Mad King James]

The people in the low countries were called Low German (Neder Duits) to, but most of us (I am dutch so I call myself us ) were not called Saxon, only in what is the county of Ost-Friesland in CK people from the low countries could be named (low-)Saxon (mostly the regions of Drenthe and Twente in modern the Netherlands).

Er... I didn't say you were, didn't you look at the map? Most of the "Dutch" areas are in "Low Frankish" or "Frisian". Only Geldre and Overijsel are in Low Saxon.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Er... I didn't say you were, didn't you look at the map? Most of the "Dutch" areas are in "Low Frankish" or "Frisian". Only Geldre and Overijsel are in Low Saxon.

I agree with you, just I just didn't read your last post very well, you said that if you take the frankish out the only other low germans are the saxons.

And please, please, please don't call Gelre, Geldre. I don't know how Paradox came up with that name in EU2 but the name is either

Gelre (ancient dutch name)
Geldern (german)
Guelders (english)
Gelderland (modern dutch name)

:rofl:

 

[Mad King James]

The people in the low countries were called Low German (Neder Duits) to, but most of us (I am dutch so I call myself us ) were not called Saxon, only in what is the county of Ost-Friesland in CK people from the low countries could be named (low-)Saxon (mostly the regions of Drenthe and Twente in modern the Netherlands).

EDIT

Can you give us a list of low and high german names.

EDIT AGAIN



Alltough not completely historical acurate I wouldn't object it. As I said before the forfathers of the Frisians were Saxons, Angles and Jutes.

Here's a couple Saxon ones:

MALE SAXON:
Diederick
Evert
Fester
Gebbert
Geert
Karsten

FEMALE SAXON:
Aleit
Antje

 

[Mad King James]

For comparison (First is latin/High German = Low Saxon equivalent)

Alexander = Sander, Zander, Sandter

Andrew, or Andreas = Drees, Dreis, Drehs

Anthony or Anton = Tonnies, Tonies

Arnold = Arent, Arend, Arnd

August = Jost, Just, Jobst

Balthasar = Balster, Balzedr, Balter

Bernard = Berent, Bernt

Casper = Jasper, Iasper

Christian = Kaerten, Kersten, Cerstain, Cerst, Kerst

Conrad = Cort, Kort, Kert, Cordt, Kurt, Kordt

Diedrich = Dirk, Diers, Dirich, Dereke, Detdhart, Detert, Deterd

Eberhard = Evert, Everd, Ebert

Friedrich = Ferk, Freric

Geisel = Geise, Teiske, Giesake, Gies

George = Juergen, Jurgen, Joern, Jorien

Gerhardt or Gerhard = Gertt, Gerdt, Geed, Gercken, Gerd

Gottfried = Godtfridt, Godtfrid, Gottke

Herman = Hinke, Henke, Henneke, Henrich, Hinnerk, Hinderich, Heinrich, Herm, Harm, Hameke, Hemme

Ludwig or Lucas = Luedeke, Ludeke

Ludwig = Lubbeke, Lubbert, Luebbeke, Luke, Ludeke, Lueke, Lucke, Lub

Mathew or Matthias = Thies, Thees

Meinhard or Meinhardt = Meinold, Meinolf, Menolf, Meinulf

Rudolph = Roleff, Rolef, Rulof, Roluf, Roloff

Theodor = Teo, Teod, Tyde

Tobias = Teobbe, Tebbe, Tabe, Tobe, Tepe

Walter = Wolke, Wolcke, Wolfeke

Wentzel = Wessel

Werner = Wernke, Werneke, Wernka, Werueke

Wienan = Nantke, Nantjes, Nantwig

Wilhelm = Wilm, Wilcke, Wille

Wolf or Wolfgang = Woleke, Wolter, Wolthe




Female First Names


Adelheid = Alheid, Aliet, Aeke, Aolleid, Oellken

Agnes = Neze

Anna = Anke, Enneke, Anneke, An, Enne

Antonette = Nette

Apollonia = Ploenje

Aguste = Goste

Charlott = Lolo, Lilo, Lotte

Debora = Dele, Hebra

Dorthy or Dorthea = Theke, Thelke, Telke

Elisabeth = Elake, Elsebein, Elsebe, Ilsebein, Ilsebe, Elsche, Beine, Liwwat, Elwat, Elysabet

Friedericke = Fredeke

Gertrud or Gertrude = Drud, Drued, Gedrut, Gedrud, Druetke, Trude, Gebke

Helena or Helene = Hille, Hilke, Hilka, Hillena

Johanna = Hempe, Hempke, Hembke

Judith = Jutta, Jutte, Jeutte, Jeutta

Kunigunde = Kunneke, Kuenne

Lucia = Lukke, Lueke, Luecke

Margaretha = Grete, Grethe, Grecke, Greite, Gretken, Greitken

Maria = Marcke, Maricke, Maricken

Mathide or Martha = Mettke, Mette, Metteke, Metke

Rebecca = Beke, Becke, Rebecke

Sofia or Sophia = Fieke, Phye, Fieye

Susanna = Swanke, Sweneke, Schwanke, Schwenke

Veronica or Veronika = Vena, Venna, Venke, Nenna, Fenke

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Comparison of latin and low saxon seems rather odd, since I believe high german version were more "germanic" than the latin versions. For example, I have hard time believing that George would have been used by high germans, while those Jürgens sound plausible for them.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well you can mostly use the extended dutch nameslist then

The names are mostly names who would be used by peasants and burghers the nobles would use Germanic names like Otto, Heinrich and Conrad. Or in dutch Otto, Hendrick and Coenraad.

EDIT
George would be Georg in German (high)

 

[Mad King James]

Well you can mostly use the extended dutch nameslist then

The names are mostly names who would be used by peasants and burghers the nobles would use Germanic names like Otto, Heinrich and Conrad. Or in dutch Otto, Hendrick and Coenraad.

You mean Octha, Hinke and Cort?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

You mean Octha, Hinke and Cort?

Sure the famous emperor Octha I of the Platduutsche Huus :rofl:

EDIT
I wouldn't mind the merge of the frisian and with the low saxon culture and name it Saxon culture. Sure most rulers are known by their high-german name, but the same thing counts for the Occitan rulers who are know mostly by their Frankish name.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Where did you find the names MKJ, btw?

 

[Calgacus]

The best I can do just now - I really wanna get on with the maps - is to introduce either Flemish or Frisian in favor of Dutch; I can do both if we take one of the Scandinavian tags.

 

[Hallsten]

If you have Low Frankish (or just Frankish and rename the current Frankish culture French) the only other Low Germans ARE the Saxons.

That's true, I doublechecked my sources and the Saxon area was bigger than I had remembered. I apologize for this... o

So ok, remove the "Low" from both of the names, rename the culture of northern France to French, and we have a much more accurate setup.

I was only proposing to remove "Low" from "Low Saxon" since Upper Saxony didn't exist until the late 14th century, thus rendering the "Low" a bit redundant.
Ergo: My only problem with your Atlantic German setup is the name, which is a non-issue really since an unpicked nit won't make or break the game.

Low and High german were completely different languages, and having high German names for Saxons and Franks is bizarre.

I can't see where I proposed this?

Also why are you so worried about German culture tags? Where else are you going to use them except in Germany? If you merge Frisian and Saxon you don't even need to use 3, just 2.

I'm not worried, I want to merge the Scandinavian cultures to make room for more cultures in continental Europe where they're needed.

I don't understand why you have convinced yourself I'm wrong despite all the contrary evidence.

It's not at all my intention to be narrowminded, I can't see where I've displayed that or what I've done to offend you but if I have I'm sorry for having done that...

 

[Mad King James]

Hallsten not you, Calgacus is the one saying "German won't be split, forget about it" despite anything I say.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The best I can do just now - I really wanna get on with the maps - is to introduce either Flemish or Frisian in favor of Dutch; I can do both if we take one of the Scandinavian tags.

Well since you aren't in favour of the Saxon culture here are my suggestions for the 1187 and 1335 setup

1187
Flemish - Guines, Boulogne, Brugge, Gent, Ypres, Artois, Hainaut, Zeeland
Frisian - West-Friesland, Frisia, Ost-Friesland, Oldenburg
German - Brabant, Liege, Luxembourg, Loon, Breda, Gelre, Sticht, Holland

1335
Flemish - Brugge, Gent, Ypres, Hainaut, Guines
Frankish - Boulogne, Artois
Frisian - West-Friesland, Frisia
German - The rest

I am not as sure about these 2 setups as I am about 1066, cause I really only play the 1066 scenario and I have been focusing my research on that era.

 

[Calgacus]

Hallsten not you, Calgacus is the one saying "German won't be split, forget about it" despite anything I say.

Has it crossed your mind that you just haven't convinced me?

 

[Calgacus]

Well since you aren't in favour of the Saxon culture here are my suggestions for the 1187 and 1335 setup

1187
Flemish - Guines, Boulogne, Brugge, Gent, Ypres, Artois, Hainaut, Zeeland
Frisian - West-Friesland, Frisia, Ost-Friesland, Oldenburg
German - Brabant, Liege, Luxembourg, Loon, Breda, Gelre, Sticht, Holland

1335
Flemish - Brugge, Gent, Ypres, Hainaut, Guines
Frankish - Boulogne, Artois
Frisian - West-Friesland, Frisia
German - The rest

I am not as sure about these 2 setups as I am about 1066, cause I really only play the 1066 scenario and I have been focusing my research on that era.

Thank you very much Veldmaarschalk. I can get on with the maps now.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

But the German culture is already split in German and Dutch.

Dutch is ahistorical for almost the entire CK timeframe.

Why not rename Dutch to Saxon and give Saxon culture to the northern low countries and northen HRE ?

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I think this thread is perfect example why Culture setup is closed issue for Betas.

 

[Mad King James]

The best I can do just now - I really wanna get on with the maps - is to introduce either Flemish or Frisian in favor of Dutch; I can do both if we take one of the Scandinavian tags.

I don't think Flemish (or Fleming) is the way to go, as it was only one dialect of Old Frankish, along with Luxemberger and Brabanter, Dialects in Liege, Calais, Ypren and elsewhere.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I think this thread is perfect example why Culture setup is closed issue for Betas.

But aren't we having fun

Leave culture and flavour to the modders let the beta concentrate on improving the already great game.

 

[Mad King James]

I think this thread is perfect example why Culture setup is closed issue for Betas.

Well... it's not EXACTLY closed. It's closed-ish.