Grand Culture Mod : (Cultures I'd like to see instated)

[Zebedee]

On the North Welsh.

There is a strong argument for Strathclyde Welsh being represented. The King of the Scots referred to his subjects as English, Scots and Welsh in royal proclamations up til the C12th. (cf surnames Inglis, Scott and Wallace). Certainly in the 1066 scenario they should be somewhere on the map.

Cumbria is more difficult. There was a mass migration of the North Welsh into Gwynedd c.890 according to the Chronicles of the Princes. This is supported by various circumstantial evidence (the 'cult' of St.Kentigern spreading, the impact on Welsh literature). Was there enough of a Cumbric speaking population left to make the overall culture Welsh?

Names provide little help here, as they royal families of the Strathclyde Welsh and the Scots interbred quite frequently. So you see Donald's and Owen son of Donald as father and son.

Will post more if anyone gives a tinker's cuss but I don't think it is a subject worth debating too strongly

 

[unmerged(31117)]

No culture in the game can be claimed to have remained totally unchanged throughout the game period. Some changed more than other that is true. The point remains that the game does not allow gradual evolution of names over time to represent cultural changes within that culture (it should but it doesn't). Therefore we must ask what are we trying to achieve.

I would take 'culture' in CK or in any Paradox game in fact to represent 'route of cultural development''. The modern name for a cultural block should be used whenever possible. Therefore whether the language of Scotland at the beggining of the period should be called Scottish or Gaelic is mute. The Welsh are called 'Welsh' not beacause that was what they called themselves, indeed they called themselves britons, but beacause that is the modern term for the people of that region. The modern definition of the culture of a region should be dominant whatever the origin of the name or whether the people of that region at that time called themselves that.

The Dutch had a language at the start of the era and evolved into a distinct culture, which eventually went on the become modern dutch. If you want to stop this process then the player should have to use 'cultural assimilation' to stop it in-game in order to bring it back into line with the greater german culture. The Scottish gaelics are in the period the dominant "Scottish" culture by the definition given above therefore they should be represented by the Scottish culture rather than the "medieval Scots" who are by the definition given above English.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

The "Scottish problem" can be easily solved by making Scottish name appear as they should in their gaelic form, not in their anglicized form. However I do think Scottish should remain in the game.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Maybe scottish should symbolize south Scotland, where there anyways where there already were a great english influence, since before the scottish invasions, while north Scotlans, which still should be gaelic,could be represented by irish/gaelic culture, which also would solve the pictish problems, since they still existed in most north of Scotland in 1066. The welsh in Straithclyde could either be in or not (most correct Straithclyde was still mostly Welsh in 1066, but cause problems in late games, where they deffinitely should be scottish).

Otherwise we let the scottish culture symbolize both gaelic and anglosaxon scottish, and have a culture with mixed names.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

If the Low Germans used different naming patterns than High Germans, wouldn't it make sense from CK culture view to expand dutch to become Low German and then change the name lists accordingly?

 

[Deserteur]

If the Low Germans used different naming patterns than High Germans, wouldn't it make sense from CK culture view to expand dutch to become Low German and then change the name lists accordingly?

the problem is that eastern low Germans had very different ones from those living in the west..

Is the culture thing really only about names, or are there also other aspects regarding culture, like money, revolts, loyality, etc.. ?

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Cumbrian Welsh or Cumbrians lived in area from Cumbria to Strathclyde. When I was speaking about Cumbria I mean't the whole area where Cumbrians lived, not just English Cumbria. In Scottish side of the border Welsh were stronger than in English side of the border. They had their own culture and own saints. Candida Casa (Whithorn) was propably their most important religious centre and most important local saint was St. Ninian. The monastery had revival in early 12th century.

Originally Posted by Byakhiam
If the Low Germans used different naming patterns than High Germans, wouldn't it make sense from CK culture view to expand dutch to become Low German and then change the name lists accordingly?

That sounds good to me, but it would piss off some Dutch people.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Is the culture thing really only about names, or are there also other aspects regarding culture, like money, revolts, loyality, etc.. ?

Yes, it basically is important only for naming of characters, but it also affects the pace of tech spread which is not so important.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Originally Posted by Byakhiam
If the Low Germans used different naming patterns than High Germans, wouldn't it make sense from CK culture view to expand dutch to become Low German and then change the name lists accordingly?

If there are many differences between the high german and low german names I have no problem with that. But are there that many differences?

The differences in spelling between the dutch names and the german names are bigger then the differences between low and high german names. I see no point in have a low german character named Friedrich and a high german character named Friedrich, a character named Frederik would show the different culture more significantly.


Since the spelling of the low and high german names is the same. Only some names were more used in high german then low german and vice versa. But that can be said for every culture. There are always regions were some names are more used then others.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Low and High German are too generic divisions IMO. As I said if we do it that way then we must continue with uniting of Scandinavian tags and many others. I don't like that.

 

[unmerged(31117)]

Yes the MOD should be about adding cultures, not taking them away.

 

[Deserteur]

Yes the MOD should be about adding cultures, not taking them away.

then the mod would be senseless. either you do it all or you do nothing..

 

[unmerged(27913)]

then the mod would be senseless. either you do it all or you do nothing..

I suggest you read the whole thread before start making such remarks.

 

[Deserteur]

I suggest you read the whole thread before start making such remarks.

I think that I can say my opinion without doing it

 

[unmerged(21937)]

But you should not complain if your opinion gets ignored then.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

It would certainly seem to me to make more sense to be aware of the overall discussion before leaping into it. Else the thread become utterly circular and useless by rehashing old ground. I'd strongly urge reading the thread or starting a new one of your own since there's no need to unnecessarily derail the process.

 

[Deserteur]

But you should not complain if your opinion gets ignored then.

and I won't

 

[unmerged(31117)]

What characters if any should be Kurdish, I think Saladin was a Kurd, but how many others were.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Well Keep in mind Saladin wasn't around then and this entire thread to this point has just been about the 1066 map. But other then Saladin, I don't know other important people during the Crusader Kings timeline being Kurds

 

[Semi-Lobster]

I was wondering, in the earlier maps Kurs was Finnish/Uralic, but then it was turned into Lettish. Why is that? The Livonians (who lived there) where/are certainly a Finnic people