Grand Culture Mod : (Cultures I'd like to see instated)

[Mad King James]

Cultures I'd like to see instated:

BRETON:
Really now, this is kind of a no brainer.

KHAZAR:
Considering their state was destroyed only 50 years before the game starts, shouldn't at least SOME of their former territory in transcaucasia have their culture and religion (Turkish and Jewish)?
I mean heck, in 1066 a part of Khazaria should still be around, albeit probably as a vassal of the Cumans, in Transcaucasia. The rulers of Yegorlik, Manych and Kuba should be Khazars (still vassals of the Alans) and their provinces Turkish and Jewish. Itil and Tmukturan should be so cultured as well.

CRIMEAN GOTHIC: (or just Goth)
Would be nice to represent the Crimean Goths as well, as Crimean Gothic remained the dominant spoken language and practiced culture in Crimea well into the 16th century. Not only is the language East Germanic (and therefore a completely different branch of Germanic) but it's written in Cyrillic characters, and culturally they're closer to Khazars, Cumans and Greeks. Would be nice to use one of those unused cultures here.

I mean heck, during the game the culture is supposed to INCREASE in importance, from only southern Crimea to being the dominant language in all of Crimea.

 

[unmerged(16588)]

Germanic written in cyrillic characters? Hmm reminds me of a midterm I wrote... never study Russian and German at the same time and then write exams hungover

Wouldn't the Khazar issue simply be solved, to a degree, by making said provinces Turkish and Jewish instead of creating a new Khazar culture? I mean, it'd be close enough really and not require excessive tinkering.

However, the Jewish religion is pretty tricky in this game, as I don't believe it allows meaningful interaction with any of the other religions: i.e. I created a scenario and made one of my courtiers Jewish... created a wife for him and everything, so he went on his merry way pumping out little Jewlets, happy as a clam. So I gave him a duchy... his son inherits... la la la... I check on him several years later and notice that he has not married or produced an heir... nor have any of the original Jew's male offspring married (some of the females were married off when they will still courtiers of mine, but their religion doesn't get passed on). My theory is that since that was the only Jewish dynasty in the game, they had noone to interact with, and were thus doomed to die out.

Point being: well, none really, except for making Jewish characters just really isn't fair for said characters.

As for the other: why not just make Brittany Welsh, or Celtic, like whatever Solmyr does in his mod?

 

[Mad King James]

The problem with this is Breton rulers didn't have Welsh names, they had Breton names. Names like Hoel, Alan, Dreu, Suerech, Conan, Erispoe and Pascueten.

I proposed Turkish for the Khazars actually

You could get away with using Alan for the Crimean Goths, it isn't exactly right, but it's closer than Russian.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

CRIMEAN GOTHIC: (or just Goth)
Would be nice to represent the Crimean Goths as well, as Crimean Gothic remained the dominant spoken language and practiced culture in Crimea well into the 16th century. Not only is the language East Germanic (and therefore a completely different branch of Germanic) but it's written in Cyrillic characters, and culturally they're closer to Khazars, Cumans and Greeks. Would be nice to use one of those unused cultures here.

I mean heck, during the game the culture is supposed to INCREASE in importance, from only southern Crimea to being the dominant language in all of Crimea.

Gothic dominant in Crimea after Tartar conquest? Thats something certainly interesting

 

[Mad King James]

The Southern Crimean Goths were never conquered by the Tatars. The Ottoman Empire conquered the last Crimean Gothic state of Theodoros in 1477. (Rulers were Greek, People were mostly Crimean Goths).

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Ah, yes, but i though it consituted smaller part of Crimea (both territory and population) than the Khanate one. Although i did not check the map, so i can be wrong.

 

[Tzar Kalojan]

What do you think about dividing the south slavic culture. There was such a division at that times. I suggest making Croat , Serbian, Wallachian and Bulgarian cultures. I mean , come on , there were thousands of threads concerning that question and everybody agrees that the south slavic culture should be divided ...
I really look forward about that matter

 

[Havard]

I mean , come on , there were thousands of threads concerning that question and everybody agrees that the south slavic culture should be divided ...

...and noone agrees on how to divide it...

 

[unmerged(27913)]

...and noone agrees on how to divide it...

Who is none? I've seen no one even commenting....
Every south slavic member on this board who have seen my proposition agreed with me and said it looks great...so what are you talking about?

 

[Tzar Kalojan]

Just follow the culture map that Finellach made. It's great

 

[Hogar]

Who is none? I've seen no one even commenting....
Every south slavic member on this board who have seen my proposition agreed with me and said it looks great...so what are you talking about?

Lisen to this guy... he's map is great!

 

[Tzar Kalojan]

Here is the map. It clearly distinguishes the different cultures and I think it is extremely accurate :


Map updated on 8.04.2005

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Merging almost all fenno-urgic peoples into one? That's like merging serbians and bulgarians. It's kinda silly that while you try to solve one merger you at the same time try to create another.

Mongols on the Volga banks in 1066? Isn't that slightly far fetched, especially as mongol is a special culture?

I'll let others who are more specialized in their respective areas of knowledge to pick on the map on other things.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Merging almost all fenno-urgic peoples into one? That's like merging serbians and bulgarians. It's kinda silly that while you try to solve one merger you at the same time try to create another.

Merging all Finno-Ugric people would include Hungarians obviously. I at first did partition it into Finnish and Ugric general in which Baltic Ugrians and Mordvins would fall in, but observing several ethnic maps and the names of those Finno-Ugric tribes guided me to a conclusion they are all extremly well alike, much more than Serbian, Croatian and Bulgarian(ie South Slavic) ever were. Furthemore to correctly show all Finno-Ugric tribes in the North would require at least 5 different tags and we hardly have two.

Mongols on the Volga banks in 1066? Isn't that slightly far fetched, especially as mongol is a special culture?

Thats as in original actually.

I'll let others who are more specialized in their respective areas of knowledge to pick on the map on other things.

I think you should let others do much more.
I haven't seen you making any proposals or making corrections on your own, only thing you do is promote status quo and bitch around.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Merging all Finno-Ugric people would include Hungarians obviously. I at first did partition it into Finnish and Ugric general in which Baltic Ugrians and Mordvins would fall in, but observing several ethnic maps and the names of those Finno-Ugric tribes guided me to a conclusion they are all extremly well alike, much more than Serbian, Croatian and Bulgarian(ie South Slavic) ever were. Furthemore to correctly show all Finno-Ugric tribes in the North would require at least 5 different tags and we hardly have two.

While I might agree that ancestors of finns and ests were close enough to be just one culture in 1066, I won't agree that the ancestors of lapps were. Also, I did say "almost", because I saw you excepted hungarians.

Thats as in original actually.

Original as in patch 1.03 or something?

I think you should let others do much more.
I haven't seen you making any proposals or making corrections on your own, only thing you do is promote status quo and bitch around.

Well, I think I did point out the two problems I have with this map. You would need to change mongols into something else and I think you should at least have lappish in addition to finnish.

My comment about others referred to how I am not an expert on cultures around Europe in 1066 and if there is any other inaccuracy (there doesn't have to be), someone could help by pointing it out.

I generally do promote status quo, when I don't agree with a proposed reform.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

While I might agree that ancestors of finns and ests were close enough to be just one culture in 1066, I won't agree that the ancestors of lapps were. Also, I did say "almost", because I saw you excepted hungarians.

I suggest you take a look at Lappish and Finnish names and compare them.
Furthemore in all historical accounts and in all historical maps there are no Lapps, only 'Finnish tribes'.

While I would agree that it would maybe be better to remove Letts and add Esthonians-Livonians and to remove Pechenegs and add Cumans instead and use the free tag for Mordvins I totally disagree with having Lapps in Northern Russia and in Scandinavia when we have already suitable Finnish tag.

Original as in patch 1.03 or something?

Original as in any patch. There is even mongol county(Torki) west of Kiev.
Don't know what they represent and so I don't know what to do with them I simply left is as it is with minor corrections.

Well, I think I did point out the two problems I have with this map. You would need to change mongols into something else and I think you should at least have lappish in addition to finnish.

Well what do you suggest we change the mongol culture into?
Lapps are definately out of the picture I am afraid. As I pointed out before they fit and should fit under Finns.

My comment about others referred to how I am not an expert on cultures around Europe in 1066 and if there is any other inaccuracy (there doesn't have to be), someone could help by pointing it out.

There is a thread about cultures in general forum where everyone is welcome to state their opinion. As of yet no one complained about other cultures....except few rather ignorrant reqests such as renamed Vlachs into Romanians although the one is historically correct and the other modern term for modern day nation.

I generally do promote status quo, when I don't agree with a proposed reform.

Well thats where we differ. Promoting status quo is even wrose than doing it wrong.

 

[unmerged(14905)]

It's amazing how people always want to split a generic slavic and/or balkan "pop" into one gazillion different cultures, leaving -I can say- german, italian, arab, rus as monolithic, uniform, single and indivisible ones.

Keep it up!

 

[Havard]

Who is none? I've seen no one even commenting....
Every south slavic member on this board who have seen my proposition agreed with me and said it looks great...so what are you talking about?

I've closed enough threads on this topic over the last few years to know that when you are talking western Balkan and culture/nationality/religion there no such thing as "all agrees".


In general, I think too many are concerned about names and appearance over actual effects of cultures in the game...

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I suggest you take a look at Lappish and Finnish names and compare them.
Furthemore in all historical accounts and in all historical maps there are no Lapps, only 'Finnish tribes'.

They look as little alike to me as serbian and croat names to you. Which kinda proves my point as I would not have any problem with south slavic merger, as I don't mind having a serb named "Hrvatska".
I would presume that those historical accounts you have been reading and historical maps might not make any difference, probably due to how we are talking about cultural differences between two most-of-the-time subjugated minority people, I think that the way how lapps still retain their own culture today after living basically side-by-side with finns for centuries kinda proves that we weren't just one culture back then.

Original as in any patch. There is even mongol county(Torki) west of Kiev.
Don't know what they represent and so I don't know what to do with them I simply left is as it is with minor corrections.

In current patch (and have been for several beta patches now) there is no single mongol province in 1066 scenario. I wouldn't like to add them back, because they are a special culture.

Well what do you suggest we change the mongol culture into?

Dunno, what those people were closest to? They are currently russians in the most recent beta patch.

Well thats where we differ. Promoting status quo is even wrose than doing it wrong.

I don't think we should replace one inaccuracy with another, rather do something that is certainly accurate.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

It's amazing how people always want to split a generic slavic and/or balkan "pop" into one gazillion different cultures, leaving -I can say- german, italian, arab, rus as monolithic, uniform, single and indivisible ones.

Well let's see. Unlike German, Italian, Arab and Rus people of the "Balkans" spoke with different language, were of different religion and customs and of different origin. It would give me no greater pleasure if I had more then enough cultures to split German, Italian and Rus people as well but as we don't have enough tags the most important issues have the advantage.

I must say that what I find more amazing is that Paradox and Strategy First always seek the easiest solution posibble - just put the whole lot in one rubble and who cares....
Scandinavians were far more united and similar than 'South Slavs' ever were yet in this game they are dividied. Thats far more amazing IMO.

Keep it up!

I certainly will, be asssured of that.