Grand City as vassal, beneficial for income?

[unmerged(608717)]

Hey guys,

I've been trying to find definite information about Prince-Bishoprics, Grand Cities, Republics etc.(pre-DLC as of yet) as your vassals and the possible benefits of having them, but not with great success.

Situation is: As King of Aquitane, part of HRE, I recently acquired the Kingdom of Scotland and most of Ireland in a crusade from the Aztec Empire. I don't plan on having them for a long while since I reckon the Aztecs, who are still very powerful holding England and the Scandinavian Empire's area and some in Africa, will take it back and I'm not going to bother making a fight for it.

I am thinking of getting the most out of the newly acquired Scotland in terms of money while I still hold them.

Now I know how I can set up all the counties where the Count only holds the main barony, and the other holdings are set as individual vassals straight under me. In some cases the counts would actually be vassals to a duke, and then I would not get the "Desires the Bishopric/City of X" penalty myself from the Count, however none of the duchies are actually created at the moment in Scotland, and I definetely dont have the money to create them all.

I read somewhere a line that you could get more income from a county if you set it up as a Grand City instead of a Feudal County. My real question is, is this true or not, and why?

Option A)
If I set up the county to be a Grand City, the Lord Mayor inevitably hold both the Capital City _and_ the Barony by himself(he will set up the barony to be his vassal soon after) and I only hold as direct vassals the remaining holdings - mostly in Scotland's case only the single bishopric.

Option B)
I set up the the county to be a regular Feudal County, the Count only holds the Capital Barony by himself and the rest of the holdings are direct vassals to me, including the city. I still get the same city tax income from it.

Why would setting up the county as a Grand City generate any more tax income to me as opposed to it being Feudal County, if I in any case hold the City of the county as a direct vassal?

Would Option C be even better: setting the up the county as Grand City and making all holdings as vassal to the Lord Mayor? Would he then generate more tax income to himself and in return more to me?

I am also aware of all the opinion penalty types associated with Wrong Government type but it is usually not a big problem as I am running elective(controlled only by me so far) and choosing the best rulers with highest diplomacy.

 

[Xiathorn]

Making the Lord Mayor head of the county means you get (city income + vassal income) * tax_rate

So holding the vassals directly means you'll get more money, from the bishopric - else the bishopric will end up paying tax to the mayor, and he will only send a portion of that bishopric income.

If you want to make the maximum amount of money, then you want every single vassal to be directly subservient to you, so that it doesn't pass through any other vassal, who would take his/her cut.

This is generally a bad move, as it gives you way too much to deal with, but for max cash it's the only solution.

If you want max cash, do B) - give it to a feudal lord before you pass off the other holdings, then create baronies yourself. You'll get negative opinion modifiers from the count, but who cares? He's too weak to hurt you himself, and the cash you get from it will be more than enough. You can, of course, always assign those feudal vassals to other Dukes in your realm, for a total mismash of wtf, but it could have weird side effects later on (Dukes pushing against other dukes to grab vassals to build Scottish Dukedoms, etc)

 

[unmerged(608717)]

Thanks for the reply Xiathorn.

I found some more mention of this concept in http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?650586-Strategy-Question-Vassal-Title-holders this thread.

"A city owned by or being a vassal of a lordmayor or duke will get a 15% bonus to its income. If the city is on the coast it gets a further 25% bonus. Finally, if the city is the capital of a doge it gets another 100% bonus on top of that for a total of a 140% bonus to income."

I am even more confused now. He is also claiming that he makes a lot of money by having Lord Mayor type counties, but I am still wondering does to Lord Mayor functionality really generate any additional tax bonus out of the City, if the Lord Mayor only really owns the same city.

 

[riknap]

It does.

Basically, if a lord mayor holds a city, he earns more out of each city versus if he were an ordinary (barony-level) mayor.
If that lord mayor (county-level) becomes a doge (duke-level), then his capital city (but not the other cities of other counties) earns twice as much.

So basically, if you want to earn money, make a doge vassal who personally owns the county-cities of his duchy. That way, no money is filtered out (since the doge vassal earns everything instead of receiving just a portion in taxes), while he pays his share of his boosted solo income in taxes.

 

[unmerged(608717)]

Splendid, thank you! Ireland and Scotland full of Grand Cities and Republics it is then.

Any idea on how to proceed, just create Grand Cities first and let the Lord Mayors create the Republics themselves? Is there any risk of a single Doge actually gaining several Republics himself, if I am on Medium Crown Authority? Also seems that Doges are a pain to manage and I will eventually be looking at a revolt in any case.

 

[Xiathorn]

My god.

I had absolutely no idea about those bonuses - I didn't even know coastal cities got a flat income boost, I thought it was so you could build harbours for the extra gold income that way.

I apologise for my misleading information!

 

[Talq]

Splendid, thank you! Ireland and Scotland full of Grand Cities and Republics it is then.

Any idea on how to proceed, just create Grand Cities first and let the Lord Mayors create the Republics themselves? Is there any risk of a single Doge actually gaining several Republics himself, if I am on Medium Crown Authority? Also seems that Doges are a pain to manage and I will eventually be looking at a revolt in any case.

If they are capable, they will cheerily create the duchy (republic) title if it does not exist. As inheritance does not apply to mayors, they won't form a mega republic. Erm, and while the wrong holding penalty can be handled, do take care that you don't stack too many more penalties on top of that (desires county/holding comes to mind) or they will be permanent faction members.

 

[NewbieOne]

It does.

Basically, if a lord mayor holds a city, he earns more out of each city versus if he were an ordinary (barony-level) mayor.
If that lord mayor (county-level) becomes a doge (duke-level), then his capital city (but not the other cities of other counties) earns twice as much.

So basically, if you want to earn money, make a doge vassal who personally owns the county-cities of his duchy. That way, no money is filtered out (since the doge vassal earns everything instead of receiving just a portion in taxes), while he pays his share of his boosted solo income in taxes.

Thanks, dude. Didn't know about the income boost for duke-level mayors.