Grand Campaign questions start to finish for the newbie

[ProfCC]

Hello all--about a year and a half ago, I came back to EU2 and attempted to get started. In the process, I began to ask what became a very long thread of questions of all types. These questions ranged the gamut of simple newbie questions to issues of strategy during war, investment strategies, attrition and a host of game related issues. I was playing France in the Grand Campaign and was learning the ropes.

Along the way, I was honored to be assisted by many great players like Sheridan, Daniel A, lawkeeper and robin74 along with assorted other wonderful people here on our great boards. I wasn't planning on creating such a massive thread, but questions just kept popping up at me. Along the way, I would post the occassional update to how things were going with even more questions. Each time, many patient people would step in with their thoughts, very helpful for the newbie that I was.

By the time we were finished, Flame of Uden had honored this group effort by posting it in the [thread=113590]Grand Strategy Thread[/thread]. He even honored it further by saying it was "recommended" for the newbie player. Eventually, lawkeeper added a link to our thread in his sig. I of course was thrilled that our work might be of use to others.

However, I was troubled that it was a bit cumbersome to get through it all. The thread was 13 pages, which if you put that into a Word doc, was over 250 pages long. Wow! And it was unwieldy is that you kind of had to read the entire thread to have any hope of finding info that you might need. So, I thought then, and this week attempted, to make the thread a bit easier to get through.

Now, in no way does this attempt replace our highly valued FAQs. Nor does it replace the guides you can find like Chemi's or Fodoron's. But I have attempted to make the reading through it more simple. Perhaps at some later date I will attempt (or someone else will attempt), to further codify our effort, but this is what I have for now. Lastly, this does not eliminate [thread=144052]the original thread[/thread].

What I have done is to eliminate most of my own posts in order to facilitate the flow. My questions appear easy enough and thus you can focus on the wise advice given by others. The original poster is easy to see as well as I have seperated each post by a marker. I have divided the questions into a series of questions that all were done in a certain time in my game. There are 31 all in all. I have also eliminated any extra comments by me or the others that weren't really germaine to the topic. You may find those, if you so wish, in the original thread which I assume will remain posted in Flame of Uden's thread. There are the pictures of the setting and so forth and I will NOT be posting those here.

Finally, at the end, there were 4 or 5 major topics that we covered that I have broken out to place them in their own section, again to make it easier to read. I hope you enjoy the effort.

Setting--I play on a Mac and when I played, I played version 1.07. Daniel A and I have gone back through these posts, however, an attempted to make sure all 1.07 issues were corrected with edits [thank you Daniel]. You will note in the posts a few (only a few) times when that was an issue, mostly with governors. I was playing France in the Grand Campaign, normal and (initially) coward setting (later I bumped that up to furious).

Index (this will jump you to various posts):
[post=3955602]Initial Questions[/post]
[post=3955609]Question Series #2[/post]
[post=3955614]Question Series #3; revolts, some diplomacy[/post]
[post=3955623]Question Series #4[/post]
[post=3955631]Question Series #5; wars & diplomacy[/post]
[post=3955636]Question Series #6; Post-100 Year's War[/post]
[post=3955639]Question Series #7[/post]
[post=3955648]Question Series #8; manufactories discussed[/post]
[post=3955655]Question Series #9[/post]
[post=3955658]Question Series #10[/post]
[post=3955669]Question Series #11[/post]
[post=3955677]Question Series #12[/post]
[post=3955681]Question Series #13[/post]
[post=3955683]Question Series #14[/post]
[post=3955688]Question Series #15[/post]
[post=3955692]Question Series #16; Colonization questions[/post]
[post=3955694]Question Series #17[/post]
[post=3955698]Question Series #18; Colonization focus #2[/post]
[post=3955707]Question Series #19; French strategy mid-1500s[/post]
[post=3955722]Question Series #20[/post]
[post=3955728]Question Series #21; Netherlands revolts questions[/post]
[post=3955733]Question Series #22[/post]
[post=3955747]Question Series #23; warscore and peace questions[/post]
[post=3955752]Question Series #24; 1600s questions[/post]
[post=3955756]Question Series #25; somewhat on Governors[/post]
[post=3955761]Question Series #26[/post]
[post=3955763]Question Series #27[/post]
[post=3955765]Question Series #28[/post]
[post=3955768]Question Series #29[/post]
[post=3955777]Question Series #30[/post]
[post=3955780]Question Series #31[/post]
[post=3955782]Early Strategy on France in the 100 Year’s War[/post]
[post=3955786]Question/ideas about annexing[/post]
[post=3955793]Military techs vs. Economic techs debate[/post]
[post=3955801]Minting and Inflation to accomplish goals[/post]
[post=3955809]Attrition discussion[/post]
[post=3955818]Finale[/post]

 

[ProfCC]

INITIAL QUESTIONS
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by [carlec
1. If a vassel takes a territory that supposedly is going to be mine (like France-Compte from Burgandy), is that mine in theory or am I going to have to fight them for it eventually?
As said, you can let your vassal receive this province, since you'll finally annex them. But better get it yourself. Don't be too kind to your allies when the matter is about core provinces and CoTs .

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
2. Burgandy has been offering peace and my instructions were to wait till she started offering territory. In her first offer of peace to me, she offered giving one of her (my) territories to one of my vassels in return for me giving back F-C. But is that really helping ME? In neither case am I actually getting anything, dependant on the answer to #1.
Aside from your vassal's tribute, it doesn't help you, and it even will hinder you when it'll come to the diplo-annex. See #0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
3. When I am beseiging a city, do I get any options in splitting my troops? I went into Gascony with about 15,000. Started the siege. My instructions then were to hit the besiege button and march everyone else north to take Brittany out of the English alliance. When I did that, I could never really tell which troops were in the siege and which were not. Plus, I wanted to take all of my cavalry with me, but I could not figure out a way to do it.
My suggestion : make two separate armies : one full infantry, on mostly cavalry with 1000 infantry (unless you're already good enough to coordinate the moves of different speed armies). Send them to one province. When the battle is over, pause, move the cavalry army, select the infantry army and either click cover (for minimal forces) or siege (to put just enough troops to actually siege the province) ; then, move the infantry army.
You can select different armies just by clicking on them (it will roll through them - 1.08 innovation) or you can hover the pointer on the morale bars, to see which army you'd select.
Don't create one sieging army, and one main army : in case of battle, you risk that the sieging army takes losses, and drops under 5000/fortress level. Off course, you could send them only after the end of the battle, but why would you let them sit while their comrades are at war ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
4. In the ensueing mess I made (point #3), all of my troops started marching north. I was then able to hit the "split troops" button and send about 6000 back to the city, but (here's the question) each time I did that, I actually "lost" the siege and started over, didn't I? Or did I?
As long as someone resumes the siege before the next check date (I don't think it's always on 1st of the month), it'll be ok. Look for sieges by rebels : when the bar is oranje, go in, battle the rebels, and get their siege.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
5. Does the siege go faster with more troops?
Not really, if there's an effect, it's marginal, but cannons really help : the bonus is proportionate to the numbers of cannon relative to the size of the fortress (max bonus is at 30 cannons/level IIRC). If there's attrition, be sure to let more troops than needed : a covering force doesn't advance the siege, it keeps the province from building troops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
6. When my allies send in troops to help with the siege, can I direct those troops? If not, then how does the computer decide who gets the territory (part of issue #1 & 2 above)?
Any historical leader (not only those with siege value) take the lead. If no leader is present, it's the first army that came there. If however you move your army, even while at pause and by mistake, and even if you make them resume the siege, your ally will get the lead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
7. Not sure I get the whole diplo-annex thing. I think this also goes back to question #1. Am I supposed to be doing something to get them "with" me. I mean, do I just say "hey you are now part of France?"
You're supposed to send a diplomat with the 'Annex' action.
Requirements :
- ten years of vassalization (30 years is a must, it greatly improves your chances)
- compatible religion (iow, a religion with which you could have a RM, e.g. catholic with orthodox)
- common land border (even between two TPs)
- common alliance (you need not be the leader, but if you're not the leader and your ally is not in the alliance, you'll need to drop of the alliance to start a new one with your ally)
- relations 190 or +, the closer to 200 possible
- your ally must be at peace (not you)
- better economy : if not, the option is not greyed out, but they'll always refuse ; in practice, you need far greater economy (economy and length of vassalization are the two most important factors)
A relatively better monarch (DIP skill) will help too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
8. My income sucks, but I've not done anything but just build troops and do some diplo things--am I missing something there? I did not touch the sliders on any screen (too scary for me).
1.08 is much harder on this point : you get less income globally. In the early game, you'll always be short of money. Build TC ASAP (you need them to get full census). When you have them, stop minting, put the treasury slider full left (to keep inflation at 0/year). At peace, make sure your army is under the support limit, put maintenance at 50% (don't forget to put it back at 100% when war breaks again ). During the 30-40 first years, invest massively in trade and infra, it'll give you economic boost, and you'll get even at military tech due to inner wealth (and better economy later). Move the DP-sliders to plutocratic and free subjects. Don't move centralization (in 1560, you get an awful -5 IIRC - at least, you get it in AGCEEP, I haven't played FRA in vanilla for a long time).
For merchants, wait until your trade efficiency (TE, you can see it in budget window, in the parentheses right of trade income) is 30% or more. Send merchants only to CoTs where they earn you enough to pay them back (there's no need to pay 17d to place them if you earn only 1d because they're competed next month). Do some maths, to see how many you earn in average, and make your decisions. Hot CoTs (like Venice and Flanders) shouldn't be prime targets, but low competition CoTs are often nice (Livland).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
9. I don't get the whole trade center thing. I send merchants to the place with the shield on that special map? And that helps me financially? And what about trade agreements--does that mean don't send any more merchants to that place?
See #8.
Mind boron's words for TAs. And don't forget to build refineries in your wine producing provinces (+1% TE with each, and a nice 60d investment in trade).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, yes I have read through the FAQs, I know of chemi's page, have it printed out and have studied most of the hints. Still a mind-boggling game; not quite as easy to get into as Medal of Honor or UT2004.
Fine. I'm happy to see you did.
Did you look to ryoken69's economy and tactical guides ? They're in the MP forum, but work well for SP too.
__________________
boron
1. if a vassal takes a territory and gets it either with seperate peace or when you give it to them by making peace solutions the vassal gets the territory .
but you can either steal the siege from them or diploannex them later . i answer more detailed to this in your further questions about it

2.see 1 : the vassal gets the territory

3. you can split the troops before and march in with 2 or more armies
then point the mouse over the army status bar and after a few seconds you see how much men it has
so build one army with a bit more than 5000 infantry ( or 10000 for small fortress / in general 5000 x fortress level ) and a second main army with your main force
if you select your main army then as described above you can move it away and the small sieging army sieges
a lazier solution is to hit the siege button then a force big enough to besiege ( around 6000 for minimal fortress ... ) is left and the game selects for you the rest of the army automatically

4. look 3 for solution , if you remove your whole army you lose your siege

5. it normally goes a bit faster with more troops
if you wanna speed it up later use some artillery
when you reseach land tech level 5 you can assault then your army tries to storm the fortress
the larger your assaulting army + if you have cannons the more likely you will be successful
and especially in the beginning when you manage to reach land tech lvl 9 before your enemies you have a excellent crc / morale advantage and win almost every siege until your enemies get land tech lvl 9 too

6. you have no influence on your allies troops and can't direct them
i am not 100% sure but normally i think the bigger army gets the siege
but when a leader is involved ( like e.g. napoleon / blücher .... )
the army with a leader gets the siege so you can wait when your allies besiege enemy territory and just bring in your leader when your allies are almost finished and then you get the siege
not 100% sure what happens when your allies have leaders too

7. there are 2 ways to diploannex : first way is to bring relations by sending gifts to 190 and you have to have a royal marriage with the state + to be in the same military alliance
then you can ask them if they want to become your vassals
the greater and more powerful in the economic way you are compared to the country you suggest vassalization the more likely you will be successfull
after 10 years make sure that you still have relations greater 190 with them and they are in the same military alliance
when you share a common border you can propose to them then that you annex them. if they agree you annexed them

second way is to get a very good warscore and then you can take the opinion force vassalize ( it needs 70% warscore if i am right so you should have 99 or 100% warscore )
than do just the same like said in way 1
wait 10 years and then you can click on annexion

3 tips :
-with rich nations like venice it is very difficult to diplovassalize them , there force vassalize is easier
- you can't diplovassalize a nation that already has another nation as a vassal
-when you have a quite big country as vassal when you wait not only 10 years but 20-30 the chances are much better that they accept annexion

8. assuming you play 1.08 : you need to build tax collectors to get +75% census tax ( = the annual tax )
so first thing to develop if your country hasn't it is infra 1 which is prequesite for tax collectors ( the research should only last 1-2 years )
then mint ( treasury slider 100% right ) as long money until you have a tax collector in all your provinces , this should normally last only 1-2 years and that 1-2 inflation aren't important

later in the game , once you reached a decent trade percentage you can get very much income with trading : send as long merchants to a cot until you have 5 there then go to the next
but don't start before 1500 or 1550 and then first in your own cots because before this you will get competed out to quick
when you then later in the 1600 century or so become perhaps the top trading chance nation or at least top 5 ( you can look at this in comparision statistic book ) your merchants almost don't get competed out ( only when you have low stability )

9. basic trading guide look 8
trade agreement is very important : it means that you don't compete with the nation with which you have a trading agreement
when a nation has a trading agreement it will not ban you from trade
so as france you should try to get a trading agreement with spain which has 1-3 very richy cots , with england which will have 1-2 in colonies most likely + the anglia cot , perhaps with austria if it is doing good and has 2-3 cots and perhaps with russia which normally has 2 cots : muscowy / astrakan
in general make trade agreements with nations which have cots themselves too and with others not
normally you will have about 3-5 trade agreements in your game later

hope i answered all your questions as you wanted and made nowhere a fault since i am far away from a expert in eu too
i discover / learn really in almost every new game something new which makes eu so great

p.s. the policy sliders are very important
most important for me are naval/land slider , quality / quantity , centralization / decentralization , narrowminded / innovative and serfdom / free people

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #2
__________________
redmark
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So, a vassel is mine, my friend (though I need to keep the dilpomatic stuff going on)? Then why do they keep a permanent cb? I mean, if we are friends and all? I mean I know that people don't like being a vassel, but the concept of vasselege, in many cases, was one entered into gladly--I am smaller, you are bigger, you'll take care of me and we'll co-exist.
Yes, you need to keep some diplomatic gifts going (usually) to keep them friendly. Don't overdo it though, just check if they drop below say 160-170 and give them a personal gift. The aim is to have them above +190 when you actually want to annex them diplomatically.

They will retain a permanent CB against you if you control a province which is a 'core' to them - which is pretty common, especially if you're playing France and have French minors in your alliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
sheridan---what does "extra warscore mean?" Are you saying that by keeping Brittany under seige, yet not accepting peace, England looks bad (can't help her allies)?

When you diplomatically 'Offer Peace', the bar at the top with a % in large text (e.g. +50%) is the total Warscore for the type of peace you are selected as proposing. If you are the leader of your alliance, proposing peace to the leader of the opposing alliance, the % is the combined warscore between all parties.

Click the shields to change from leader to seperate peace, and the % will probably change. Hover over the %, and a popup will detail how exactly the warscore is made up - who controls which provinces, battles between various members of each alliance.

So, if you control Brittany, your warscore against the English alliance is higher than if you don't control Brittany. However, your warscore against England alone would not include anything to do with Brittany, or other English allies.

This can be complex, sometimes you can take advantage by making seperate peaces with members of the opposing alliance, or by making peace for yourself and leaving your alliance partners at war. This can have downsides also (upsetting your alliance).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
lawkeeper--"BB free"? sorry still don't really know all the lingo yet.

BB= BadBoy. You get BadBoy points for, well, being bad. Some actions (taking provinces in a "defensive" war) are less bad than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Once a seige is completed, the territory is mine? I get to keep it forever?

A territory isn't yours, until you are awarded it in a peace deal. Your 'warscore' needs to be sufficient to be awarded provinces (some valuable provinces require very high warscore).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Often, do to seiges or wars, the little city icon is burning. Am I supposed to do something to help the city grow better?

No, that just shows the province has been 'looted' due to conflict. It stays like that for a year or so I think, then goes away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Towards the end before I stopped (it was only like 2-4 years in), there were tons of armies wandering around France. What is that about? Should I worry about that?

One of the most confusing/difficult things, IMO, to get used to with EU2 is that armies will leave their own provinces undefended and travel quite a distance to attack someone. There isn't any inclination to attack adjacent provinces, minimise frontiers etc. by growing 'naturally'. Countries often end up owning provinces scattered around almost at random. The combat is geared towards sieges rather than battles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And in some of my provinces, my allies had placed armies just standing there. What's that about?

Sometimes you'll see several armies stood pointlessly for months, then suddenly they'll all move off to some other location. God knows why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Is there a way to get a leader seperated from his army? At some points, I had an army icon, but when I clicked it, the army had 0 troops, but there was a leader (same thing with my navy). I'm wondering if that somehow was a way for me to "steal" a seige from my vassel. They do the work, but I show up with a leader and get the finished product.

If you re-organise armies, there'll frequently be a moment when an army 'exists' with no soldiers, with another army in the location - sort of the interface not immediately updating. Click on the army (or navy) icon on the map and it should correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So if I'm waiting to send merchants till later, should I just not worry about them for now? THey'll build up to a certain point and then just stay there? And I don't worry about it? Is this true also for colonist? I have no places to send them now anyway.

If you have a little cash, send merchants to nearest COT (the one that is shown by default when you clcik the Merchant button).
__________________
Incompetent

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So, a vassel is mine, my friend (though I need to keep the dilpomatic stuff going on)? Then why do they keep a permanent cb? I mean, if we are friends and all? I mean I know that people don't like being a vassel, but the concept of vasselege, in many cases, was one entered into gladly--I am smaller, you are bigger, you'll take care of me and we'll co-exist.

Their CB on you has nothing to do with vassalage - in vanilla EU2, most of France's vassals have the same shields as France itself (you can see your shields, but not other countries', on the political map). This means they feel they have a claim to your land, hence the CB.

In EU2 you can get casus belli for all sorts of things, and you can't renounce them, so they'll sap your relations whether you like it or not; but of course it's up to you whether you use them to go to war. Keep good relations with your vassals and they'll stay loyal.
__________________
sheridan

You get credit in peace treaty negotiations for how much you are winning the war - by occupying (not seiging, but *after* successfully seiging) Brittany's provinces, but not making a seperate peace with them, you get positive credit against England (as leader of the alliance) for occupying provinces belonging to one of its allies. However, the way negotiations work, they can't give you their ally's territory - which means they balance out those credits by offering more of their own.

This is also why I advised taking the Breton and English provinces last, after making seperate peaces with the other allies. That way you can get provinces away from the other allies by negotiating directly with them.

By the way, in terms of control of land, there are two conditions tracked in-game and in the save-file: control and ownership. After a successful seige, you control the province, but you do not own it. This condition is represented by your flag over the castle - but the pre-war borders are still shown on the map. In order to gain ownership, the province must be granted to you in a peace treaty. (This nearly always requires ownership, though there are circumstances where it doesn't... such as your "core" provinces, which you can always ask for in peace negotiations, at a higher cost.) Control of provinces owned by your enemies is the single largest way to gain warscore (which is the percentage you see in the peace negotiation screen), especially rich provinces such as those containing Centers of Trade, as well as enemy capitals. (Note also that by controlling the capital of a non-pagan nation, you alo get copies of their world maps.)
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Thank you to one and all. I will be printing out your ideas and comments. Probably go back and start over or to my first save and go from there. I made too many mistakes trying to fix my seiging army and just lost too much time there.
We're always glad to answer any question, as long as you're ready to hear the answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
lawkeeper--"BB free"? sorry still don't really know all the lingo yet.
Check the FAQs. There's a FAQ on BB there, with the exact numbers. Basically, you get BB for receiving provinces in peacedeals or through annexations. The more BB you have, the more stability costs rise, and the more the AI is prone to attack you (culminating in VH difficulty with BBWars, where most of the AI countries DoW you at the same time - very fun).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Often, do to seiges or wars, the little city icon is burning. Am I supposed to do something to help the city grow better?
You can't do anything. It's pillage : the owner loses income, and the country that did the pillage gets a one-time bag of money equal to the tax value. The burning will stop after 12 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Towards the end before I stopped (it was only like 2-4 years in), there were tons of armies wandering around France. What is that about? Should I worry about that?
Forbid the enemy from pillaging all your provinces, but try to do it to him. Let your allies roam free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And in some of my provinces, my allies had placed armies just standing there. What's that about?
We could fing tons of RPG reasons, but it's more simple : sometimes the AI does stupid things.
Replace 'sometimes' by 'often'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So if I'm waiting to send merchants till later, should I just not worry about them for now? THey'll build up to a certain point and then just stay there? And I don't worry about it? Is this true also for colonist? I have no places to send them now anyway.
Let your colonists amass, it doesn't hurt. For merchants, you can try to send them, but if you see they get competed out of CoT before they've paid you back of the sending costs, you'd better stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And, one last piece of news, I use a Mac, so I don't know about the 1.08 patch thing. Some of that stuff was, I think, just incorporated into our version when it was released.

I doubt you have 1.08, it's the last patch, released on this forum only (and on the Crusader King game, for conversion purpose) a few weeks ago. More probably, you have the 1.04 or 1.05, which are a lot more easier. But it's old, our knowledge of it could be a little degraded. Look at the main screen once the game is started, where you get to choose single player, multiplayer, credits, etc : in the top left corner, there're letters and numbers, like EU2 1.0x. What's the number ?

edit---remember, carlec was playing 1.07; most of the FAQs are either for 1.07 or upgraded for 1.08

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridan
By the way, in terms of control of land, there are two conditions tracked in-game and in the save-file: control and ownership. After a successful seige, you control the province, but you do not own it. This condition is represented by your flag over the castle - but the pre-war borders are still shown on the map. In order to gain ownership, the province must be granted to you in a peace treaty. (This nearly always requires ownership, though there are circumstances where it doesn't... such as your "core" provinces, which you can always ask for in peace negotiations, at a higher cost.) Control of provinces owned by your enemies is the single largest way to gain warscore (which is the percentage you see in the peace negotiation screen), especially rich provinces such as those containing Centers of Trade, as well as enemy capitals. (Note also that by controlling the capital of a non-pagan nation, you also get copies of their world maps.)
Hover your pointer over the province for a second or so : an info-box will appear, telling you who owns and who controls the province.
To get a province in peace deals requires control, not ownership, unless it's one of your cores. You can get your cores without controlling them, but in that case they 'cost' you twice (IIRC) the warscore you would need to receive them if you controlled them.
To successfully make a peace, you need to ask 10% under the actual warscore (if you're asking tribute) or offer 10% more (if you've done so bad as to need to offer tribute). The AI doesn't follow the same rules when offering peace itself.
__________________
sheridan

Also, they didn't mention - you must have state religions capable of intermarriage. Between the Reformation events and the Edict of Tolerance (roughly 1520-1650) Catholics and Protestant/Reformed cannot intermarry; after the EOT they can. Other than that, the only possible intermarriages between different religions are:

- Protestant and Reformed with each other
- Orthodox with any other kind of Christian
- Sunni (and I believe Shiite, not sure) Muslims with Hindus and other East Asian religions

Note that Sunni and Shiite Muslims can *not* interact with one another, nor with any sort of Christians; also that they can convert one another by force in wars, but cannot convert voluntarily.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #3
__________________
Daniel A

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, and no one wants to enter any kind of marriage with me. What's that about? That strategy guide you guys sent me to suggested getting royal marriages with everyone, especially Russia. But that obviously doesn't work since Russia is Orthodox. I tried Poland, Naples, Austria, some minor HRE countries, Denmark and Portugal. Portugal did, but only after a few tries.

Earlier it was very simple. If your relations were really bad (some exact value around -150/-160) they would never accept. Neither if they were in a exact interval around 0 (say -20 - +20 or something similar), else they would.

But today I believe it is slightly different, as is the case for mapsharing. Today you could get a RM if you are around 0 if you are allied and perhaps also if not.

In your case the problem surely was your relation. And Russia is OK to marry with. Perhaps you had 0 relation with them?

The reason around zero do not accept a RM is that they neither fear nor love you (i.e. your relations are around 0).
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, and no one wants to enter any kind of marriage with me. What's that about? That strategy guide you guys sent me to suggested getting royal marriages with everyone, especially Russia. But that obviously doesn't work since Russia is Orthodox. I tried Poland, Naples, Austria, some minor HRE countries, Denmark and Portugal. Portugal did, but only after a few tries. I know its not supposed to be easy, but I felt like I was floundering around in that area and started to feel that all the other countries were doing tons more than me. Plus I still never really had enough money to actually keep the army built AND do the diplomacy.

I've made some (incomplete) bookkeeping lately, and a RM can be obtained from -150 to -1, and from +15 (or +20, I don't remember exactly) to +200. Some of my numbers are from 1.07 betas tough, so it would need more tests, but I'm 99% sure I've already made an RM at -1 in 1.08. So, you need to let your relations naturally increase, to +30 at least to have decent chances (+20 needed me to have outstanding DIP rating), or even higher as +30 will give you approximately half failures with France at that time.

The reason why Russia (Muscovy in 1419) is refusing is probably because they're vassals of Golden Horde, as Tver, Ryazan and Suzdal. You can't conclude RM with vassals.
__________________
Nocuous

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
But then Navarra got into it and starting hitting me and, I don't know, things got crazy. I only got to around 1421, so I'm just not sure how fast things are supposed to happen. I actually tried this twice. The first time, I went up to Brittany to hold it like you said, but in the process, just never got a handle on it, lost too many men and all of a sudden the northern army was basically toast. And then French-Compte revolted and I had no one over there.

It is not critical to get Brittany as early as possible. What he meant is that you should try to have controll over those provinces before you accept peace with England. I would probably concentrate on the larger threath first, and knock out Burgundy and as much of the English armies as possible prior to bothering with Brittany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
The second time, I decided to try to deal with Navarra early, so I sent the entire army down there. How in the world can 3000 men defeat 25,000? I mean, that is silly. Are the military numbers like that all the time? I get the whole leadership/morale thing, but come on, pretty hard to believe and very frustrating. By the time this all went down, I was on my heels, so at the last battle, I just quit--too frustrated to deal with it.

It is not always smart to concentrate the whole army in one battle. You can get loose a lot of soldiers to attrition that way. It might also be better to kill the enemy with a 1-2 punch. Half the army attack, and if they lose you send in fresh forces. If they lose your first army should be getting ready to attack again.

Be warned that with low tech levels the combat results are quite random, and having the largest army doesn't always give you victory. You must also keep track of the terrain. An army that is defending in mountains will have a large advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Why, once my northern army is finished with Flanders (both times, Burgundy has bailed BEFORE I finished the seige---should I reject their peace offer and keep going till I GET Flanders, I mean to try and get more from them?), why don't I just attack Calais? It's right there. Why go all the way across the map to try to hold Brittany? Or am I just trying to move too fast? I guess I'm worried about all the other allies getting to these provinces first, before me (back to my original question of this thread).

By all means take Calais after you are done with Flanders. It doesn't make sense to march your armies back and forth all the time. Consentrate your field armies and only do battle when the conditions are in your favour, (let the enemy attack your cav army across a river on the plains...), while your siege armies besiege as many provinces as you dare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, and no one wants to enter any kind of marriage with me. What's that about? That strategy guide you guys sent me to suggested getting royal marriages with everyone, especially Russia. But that obviously doesn't work since Russia is Orthodox. I tried Poland, Naples, Austria, some minor HRE countries, Denmark and Portugal. Portugal did, but only after a few tries. I know its not supposed to be easy, but I felt like I was floundering around in that area and started to feel that all the other countries were doing tons more than me. Plus I still never really had enough money to actually keep the army built AND do the diplomacy.

While you try to survive the initial war I wouldn't bother with marriages and giving money to improve relations. Consentrate your efforts on winning the war. You will have several hundred years to play the diplomacy game.
__________________
sheridan

You should check your religion tolerance sliders (click on your coat of arms, and then the cross); make sure Catholic is all the way to the right, this will help moderate your revolt risk. F-C - because you do not yet have a core on it - is going to have nationalism as well; you may want to keep a small force (7-10k) of cavalry near that area to deal with any revolts.

Also, go into your treasury screen (click on the shield at the top with the coins on it) and mess with your economy sliders. First, you need to research until you get the next Infrastructure level, then push hard right on Treasury until you're out of the war and feeling comfy. (This should be less than 10 years). Use that money to build tax collectors - everywhere - and armies as needed. Mainly Cavalry, I should think, unless you're fighting Aragon and/or Navarra; infantry is better for mountains.

Have you messed with your Domestic Policy sliders, too? (These are under coat of arms, then the smaller coat of arms on the opposite side from the cross.) These can offer modifiers on things like tech research and army quality. I would advise *either* pushing one click toward Aristocracy (which makes cav cheaper and gives you better diplomacy), Innovative (which speeds up tech research), Land (which makes all troops cheaper), Quality (which makes your troops more expensive, but they fight better), or Free Subjects (same as Quality, also improves tax income). I have not yet worked out which one is the best for France in that opening war, but I'd lay money it's one of those five actions. (You can only move one of the sliders one click every 10 years; each is on a scale of 0-10 and there are 8 sliders.)
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridan
You should check your religion tolerance sliders (click on your coat of arms, and then the cross); make sure Catholic is all the way to the right, this will help moderate your revolt risk. F-C - because you do not yet have a core on it - is going to have nationalism as well; you may want to keep a small force (7-10k) of cavalry near that area to deal with any revolts.

In 1.08, you shouldn't keep an army there, since the check is really annually, but in 1.07 yes. Pushing the tolerance slider will also increase faster your relations with the other catholics - choose either orthodox or muslim to have good relations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridan
Have you messed with your Domestic Policy sliders, too? (These are under coat of arms, then the smaller coat of arms on the opposite side from the cross.) These can offer modifiers on things like tech research and army quality. I would advise *either* pushing one click toward Aristocracy (which makes cav cheaper and gives you better diplomacy), Innovative (which speeds up tech research), Land (which makes all troops cheaper), Quality (which makes your troops more expensive, but they fight better), or Free Subjects (same as Quality, also improves tax income). I have not yet worked out which one is the best for France in that opening war, but I'd lay money it's one of those five actions. (You can only move one of the sliders one click every 10 years; each is on a scale of 0-10 and there are 8 sliders.)

I usually go with Free Subjects as first click. Perhaps you shouldn't move INNOVATIVE if you want to colonize later, french provinces are rich enough you don't really need the decreased cost on tech research. As for the other, Aristocracy can be moved easily with random events, and going Plutocracy later if colonising is also good.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
In 1.08, you shouldn't keep an army there, since the check is really annually
I thought the check is still done monthly, it's just that the displayed numbers were scaled down and they now represent annual rather than monthly risk revolt.
__________________
sheridan

Quote:
F-C - because you do not yet have a core on it - is going to have nationalism as well; you may want to keep a small force (7-10k) of cavalry near that area to deal with any revolts.

In 1.08, you shouldn't keep an army there, since the check is really annually, but in 1.07 yes. Perhaps I should clarify - I meant the general area. A cavalry force in Paris or nearby (within easy striking distance of F-C) can also cover any new English forces on the north coast after those provinces have been successfully sieged.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
I thought the check is still done monthly, it's just that the displayed numbers were scaled down and they now represent annual rather than monthly risk revolt.
You're right. The check is done on the 1st of each month, and the displayed chance is annually. I should have expanded a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridan
Perhaps I should clarify - I meant the general area. A cavalry force in Paris or nearby (within easy striking distance of F-C) can also cover any new English forces on the north coast after those provinces have been successfully sieged.
Ok, I better understand you. But I wouldn't use such a small army in 1.08 : you'll need much greater one to quell the rebels.

1.08 edit--this sounds confusing; fortunately Wreck is working on a revolt FAQ [thread=182847]here[/thread]. The following is quoted from his FAQ [still in progress, so look for a final version in the FAQs and that info will be definitive!].

"Loosely speaking, revolt risk (RR) is the chance that a province will have a rebellion each time it faces a rebellion check. The net revolt risk for a province is shown on the province information screen labelled "Revolt Risk" (duh). The figure shown is a sort-of yearly figure. As shown, it is 12x the actual value; the actual net RR is typically applied monthly. For example a province showing "6%" for its net revolt risk means that it has a 0.5% chance each time it has a rebellion-check.

[Historical note for people still running 1.07, or reading older posts: RR used to apply monthly as shown, not /12. Thus you got 12 times as many rebels back then, actually a bit more since more provinces would be rebel-controlled. 1.07 rebels fought badly, but it doesn't balance out - rebels are much easier to deal with in 1.08. Before 1.08 certain nations were incredibly tedious to play during various "times of troubles" because you'd be fighting rebels constantly.]"

Thanks Wreck for the good work there!

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #4
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I'll believe you about the marriage with Russia thing, but the mouse over says its because they are Orthodox. And it was greyed out for every other Orthodox country too. I thought I had read somewhere they we COULD RM Orthodox countries, but. . .
Trebizond, Byzantium, Georgia, Serbia, Moldava, Wallachia, Novgorod, Pskov : those are the orthodox countries that are not vassals of anyone. The other russian minors are vassals of Golden Horde, as previously said. The option is not greyed out for the others, but relations are at +25. I've just conducted a test by sending an RM proposal at each : all refused. It's not enough for your ordinary king at the start of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I think I am just trying to move too fast. I mean, I see all these armies and things happening and I'm just thinking "yikes, its like Warcraft where the computer moves 100 times faster than you do and you get killed." btw, I hate RTS and Warcraft (love Blizzard/Diablo though). As I thought about it today, I thought that I was just moving too fast to get the armies everywhere and in the process forgetting about attrition. Morale builds up over time, right?
Yes, morale builds over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, I get the mountains thing, but come on, 3000 vs 30,000? No way! Not historically accurate, nor fair game play. Am I to expect that all the time? So I should just send in an army of 3000 to attack Henry V when he is besieging Orleans? <wry grin> jk Seriously, that just can't be right.
In the early part of the game, randomness is really big, and the defensive advantage of mountains is enormous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So far (3 attempts) Aragon has offered me a RM and I have accepted. But I tried to get them to join my alliance and they refused. Should I just keep asking? And no one has sent me any letters of intro or gifts or stuff--is that another case of me thinking faster than the game? I mean, I only played for 2 years, so is that something that happens every so often, once a decade or so and so I shouldn't be worried? I mean, why aren't the small guys in my alliance sending ME stuff? I'm the bigger country.
In more than 80 GCs, I've never received gifts. Don't hope too much, because they only gift each other. At least, it's a theory I've frequently read.

FAAs (Fine Arts Academies) are really the way to go for stability. Build these where sheridan said (be careful with enemy troops when at war tough), and your problems will be over.

For alliances : they last until ten years after the end of all wars for every member. So, a war by one member only is sufficient to maintain the alliance, even when the members don't know of the other (as when Spain gets into wars with Inca and all).
__________________
sheridan

As for merchants, there's an automatic setting you can use, but I would not dvise using it until after the opening war, as it will drain cash. Most people advise do-it-yourself merchanting, but that's much more advanced (and I don't even do it myself, most of the time - mostly because I'm forgetful and would leave my merchants sitting for decades if I didn't).

Economically, tax collectors are vital - research the infrastructure tech and then crash treasury to build them as fast as possible. This will greatly improve your money supply, allowing you to fight the war more efficiently.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Cool. I started again, but the program hiccupped (yes, even occasionally it happens on a Mac ). Anyway, started just like you suggested, but this time it was a 3000 man Burgundy army that defeated my northern army in Artois. Sigh. I think I'm going to only make 3000 man armies. Leaders? Morale?
You have Offensive 5, Land 5, Quality 4, Serfdom 8, while Burgundy has 5/6/5/7, so, checking my FAQ tm , a morale 0.20 higher. That's a lot, especially early on. Moreover, Burgundy has De Pressy (3/3/3/0 leader, not bad). You can see if enemy army has a leader by hovering over them (the name of the leader will appear below the size in the box).
Euh, have you checked the maintenance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What is too big for an army? I mean, heading into Brittany, 3 provinces, so at least 5000 men (once under seige, can they keep building or does that stop), so 15000 right? But due to attrition, I would need more, right? So, what, 30,000 or 3 armies of 10000?
I'd say 3*6000. Or 2*1000 to cover, and 1*6000 to siege one at a time. You need to still have them in the war when England'll offer tribute, so you have time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
If Navarre has stayed out of it (at the start, I sent them a letter which they liked, so we started positive), do I DoW them or just not worry about it till later?
Later. Try to fight only one war at a time, and if you feel you're having a bad time and another country DoWs you, don't be afraid to bribe them for peace (give them money in tribute).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Then, once the three sieges are over (and no matter what Brittany says, accept NO PEACE??--what if they offer 2 provinces?), I then recollect my army and start going after England?
No. Refuse. You'll always have the possibility to invade them later, while to get English provinces, you'd need to send an army in Great Britain, which would be rather hard given your fleet. First war : take english provinces. Once you have them, England cannot threaten you. Remember : let England and its allies conquer and annex your vassals, to get their provinces BB-free. It's only when England owns no french provinces and when your vassals are absorbed that you may go for Britanny and Burgundy's provinces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Again, how long are we talking about here, I mean ballpark? Is all of that a 5 year period, 2 years, 10 years?
After you've made peace, there's a 5 year truce. Breaking it earns a stability hit of -5, and AI never breaks it, unless called to war by allies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
If I don't want to go pitched battles in the fields, then do I continue to avoid England's army after Brittany? Just keep seiging? Or do I swoop in to try to defeat them and THEN seige?
England has a prime leader, you don't. Then, avoid them. Siege. AI sieges only one province at a time, while human players have no limits : by the time the AI sieges and takes one of your provinces, you'll have take 2 or 3, or even more. Just make sure to follow the enemy and liberate your provinces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And while all this is happening, just watch Navarre assuming they are neutral? Interesting thing happened last time before the computer blinked. After I got off to a good start with Navarre, I invited them into the alliance which they rejected. I see now, from you post, why. But in the response were these words "advised against by Aragon." It reads like Aragon urged them NOT to join. Now how would Aragon know I was doing that and why would they urge them against since we were in a RM with +125 relations? Just curious. I'm trying not to muck up my diplomats and merchants. I know they aren't critical now, but at the same time, I hate to just see them all go to waste.
As said, don't attack Navarra while you're busy with England. Given the relations, Navarra risks to make an alliance with Aragon and Castile, and it could become ugly.
What's that stuff about "advised against by Aragon" ? I've never seen such thing ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I really appreciate your time and interest, all of you really. I'm not trying to just get you to play my game, but I am really trying to learn. I've played strategy war games all my life so you'd think I could do this. And some of the strategy is apparent, but so far the interface continues to baffle me somewhat, probably just to the overwhelming number of things you can do.
Like all games, EU2 has some flaws (not much) and some abstract systems (quite a bit). It's these that need to be mastered, and it takes time and open-mindness. And a bit of help : I've learned enormously on this forum, long before I inscribed myself.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridan
As for merchants, there's an automatic setting you can use, but I would not advise using it until after the opening war, as it will drain cash. Most people advise do-it-yourself merchanting, but that's much more advanced (and I don't even do it myself, most of the time - mostly because I'm forgetful and would leave my merchants sitting for decades if I didn't).
Don't turn the autosend on. You'll lose lots of cash, much more than losing a few merchants because you forgot to send them.

Look for various threads on this forum : I've often discussions with Daniel A about sending merchants. You'll see both methods (Empty Slot Technique - EST- and Batch Sending Technique -BST-). But you shouldn't worry about it until you achieve a trade efficiency (seen in the budget window, right-most icon around your shield) of 30 or higher. Start by only trading you Ile de France CoT, and progressively extend your area of trading, by making sure your merchants earn you more than they cost. But I bet you'd be better off not sending any under TE 30.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC
__________________

Woo-hoo--good news. April 1421 and I moved as quickly as I could and was able to take Flanders and Artois before F-C. Burgundy offered them, but I declined waiting on FC. Got it and she offered all three. I know you said not to take Flanders as it's a money pit, but I figured that having that income for a while would be good and gives me a province buffer that I don't care about.

I created another army towards the end and sent it on in to Calais. Orleans has given in and so is owned by England. Maine is defeated and controlled, though Provence has not given it away. England is in the process of seiging my north Atlantic province.

Other cool news. Got the early offer of RM from Aragon and then sent 2 diplomats to Navarre to keep them out. Beat England to the upper point total. Then, Aragon DoW Navarre. I realize this may be bad for me later with Aragon/Spain, but at least for now it keeps Navarre out of my hair. I've stayed out of it, though Castille must feel weird since she has RM with both.

In the following two scenarios, I've gotten peace with England at 1424. So, based on everything else you've said, am I correct in seeing that I'll use the next 16-20 years to just clean up the mess, try to get the 30 years for the vassals and generally consolidate? I'm sure there is more within that, things to build, perhaps new alliances or old ones and stuff like that, but basically the war is over and now we just get to live for a while?

LATER--OK, here's what went down. Did as you said and headed towards Brittany. Let the Flanders army started wearing down Calais and then, eventually, another army the next province of Englands. Meanwhile, the Brittany army first took back Orleans, started a cover in Maine (which Provence, who had NOT gotten or taken a peace with England [lawkeeper, was I supposed to do something to get them to make peace with England?] then completed, so she got her land back), and then effectively took all three of Brittany's provinces.

At that point, I moved an army to Normandy and another one down to my old province, the north Atlantic one, starts with an "A" to get her back. I went to the peace table and saw what you meant about the score dealy and that I needed my territory back.

England was really sucking wind at this point. The Bourbonesis (sp?) had taken England's province on the Atlantic below mine. So, England was trying to seige it back. Then I made a mistake. I was preparing to get Gasconge, but wanted a strong enough army, so I was waiting on a second, smaller army to arrive. Before they did, the "A" ally beat me to the punch. My plan had been to take Gascogne while England took back her place. Then try to get them all like you said.

But since I knew you said whoever started the seige gets it, I knew that if I waited, I would not get either. Then England tried to break that seige and it went bad for her. Here's where my paths diverge. I saved in order to try something.

I thought I could make the offer to take all of England's provinces to get Gascogne. She refused. But while I was there, it was obvious that her other province on the Atlantic was not an option for me. Since my ally had taken it for me and England had not reclaimed it (I guess) it was not an option for me. Am I understanding that right?

Anyway, at that moment, Brittany once again offered me peace and the two channel provinces. Then, within a few seconds, England offered the 4 northern provinces. Since I had just saved, I decided to go for it and then come back to try a different style. So, boom, all of a sudden I had the entire channel. However, England still had her two Atlantic provinces.

So, I saved, and then reloaded where I had left off. Shockingly, a bunch happened in a matter of seconds. First, ALL of my vassal allies "dishonored the treaty." I'm not sure what that means, but it didn't look good. Then Scotland declared war on Eire and asked me to come with them. I declined and took the hit. Then, I moved my rather large southern army into Gascony, wondering if that would help me at the peace table. I went to diplomacy to offer peace and before I could, England offered everything to me, BUT STILL NOT THAT ONE PROVINCE. Sigh. So, I took it since I could not see how I was supposed to get that last province on the table since my ally was in control. You know, as my vassal, I should be able to control whatever territory they took in a war, at least at the peace table.

So, thus, in this second scenario, I have all of my northern provinces, but Brittany has all three of hers. I also have my southern border solid.

In the end, carlec went with the first saved game option—taking all of Brittany’s provinces.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #5
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
where exactly do you see this "bad boy" points thing listed?
Hover your mouse over your reputation in the diplomatic screen (where it says "we have an honorable reputation" or so) - the first number are your BB points, the other is your threshold.

Quote:
After I've done peace for the alliance, two of my group still were beseiging an English province (more on that in a sec). I thought that once I declared peace, they had to bail?
Maybe they signed separate peace before and were not in your war anymore?
Suppose A and B have a war against X and Y, with A and X being leaders. Now, if Y makes peace with B, this war will be split into two separate wars: A and B against X and Y against A. If X now makes the peace for the alliance, it will not affect Y anymore, because they are not in X's war.

Quote:
First, ALL of my vassel allied "dishonored the treaty." I'm not sure what that means, but it didn't look good. Then Scotland declared war on Eire and asked me to come with them. I declined and took the hit.
First of all, it's the other way around. First Scotland declared war, then your allies dishonored the alliance, or else they wouldn't have the opportunity to dishonor anything. And it means they did exactly the same as you did - they dishonored the treaty and declined to go to war.

Quote:
So, I took it since I could not see how I was supposed to get that last province on the table since my ally was in control.
You can only ask for provinces that you control or that are you core provinces. If your ally controlled the other province and if you are the war leader of the alliance, you can ask for such a province to be ceded to your ally (but from what you described, I guess you were not in the same war, so you couldn't do it).

Quote:
You know, as my vassel, I should be able to control whatever territory they took in a war, at least at the peace table.
But you don't.

Quote:
Regardless, looks like I get to do a lot of waiting around and watching the 30 years roll by till I can do the annex thing. Here's hoping I handle that correctly.
You can annex after 10 years - and if you are stronger, richer and have a better monarch you should do all right.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
After I've done peace for the alliance, two of my group still were beseiging an English province (more on that in a sec). I thought that once I declared peace, they had to bail?
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Maybe they signed separate peace before and were not in your war anymore?
Suppose A and B have a war against X and Y, with A and X being leaders. Now, if Y makes peace with B, this war will be split into two separate wars: A and B against X and Y against A. If X now makes the peace for the alliance, it will not affect Y anymore, because they are not in X's war.

No, you'll get 3 different wars : A vs X, B vs X and A vs Y. By concluding separate wars, B and Y leave their respective war-alliance, but remain at war, each alone, versus the remain of the other war-alliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In the following two scenarios, I've gotten peace with England at 1424. So, based on everything else you've said, am I correct in seeing that I'll use the next 16-20 years to just clean up the mess, try to get the 30 years for the vassels and generally consolidate? I'm sure there is more within that, things to build, perhaps new alliances or old ones and stuff like that, but basically the war is over and now we just get to live for a while?
Build TC everywhere, make some tech research (infra and trade first). You can also shift your alliance indeed, or go after other provinces if the occasion presents itself, but it's better to wait for an occasion against England, to finish them off.

sheridan : letting England annex the vassals is why I plan to have more wars than just two. Another thing hurts in the diplo-annexation : the -1 in Centralization. 4 vassals mean -4 Centralization, or -3 without Orleans (IIRC, you begin with 3, so avoiding to go to 0 near immediately is good, IMO).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
lawkeeper, was I supposed to do something to get them to make peace with England?
No, you can't influence them. Letting english armies freely roam your lands allow for the possibility they siege Provence, but it's not given for sure. It depends whether they suffered a defeat on the field of glory, or not. The other are more susceptible to give their provinces. But they could also settle for just money. You don't actually lose anything : you just pass aside of a possibility to expand more easily (and less costly) than by diplo-annexation. Diplo-annexing is still valid, if this strategy fails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I thought I could make the offer to take all of England's provinces to get Gascogne. She refused. But while I was there, it was obvious that her other province on the Atlantic was not an option for me. Since my ally had taken it for me and England had not reclaimed it (I guess) it was not an option for me. Am I understanding that right?
As robin74 said, in this case you probably weren't in the same war as your vassal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Anyway, at that moment, Brittany once again offered me peace and the two channel provinces. Then, within a few seconds, England offered the 4 northern provinces. Since I had just saved, I decided to go for it and then come back to try a different style. So, boom, all of a sudden I had the entire channel. However, England still had her two Atlantic provinces. Here is where my two allies were both still seiging Gascony. I thought they had to leave?
I guess you accepted Britanny's offer before England's right ? IIRC, when you get two offers from same alliance, you need to make peace with the member before the leader. But I'd like a confirmation on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So, I saved, and then came back where I had left off. Shockingly, a bunch happened in a matter of seconds. First, ALL of my vassel allied "dishonored the treaty." I'm not sure what that means, but it didn't look good. Then Scotland declared war on Eire and asked me to come with them. I declined and took the hit. Then, I moved my rather large southern army into Gascony, wondering if that would help me at the peace table. I went to diplomacy to offer peace and before I could, England offered everything to me, BUT STILL NOT THAT ONE PROVINCE. Sigh. So, I took it since I could not see how I was supposed to get that last province on the table since my ally was in control. You know, as my vassel, I should be able to control whatever territory they took in a war, at least at the peace table.
That's normal : when you load a game, the AI is reinitialised, and forgets all it was planning last time. Scotland had bad relations and a CB on Eire, so they DoWed. Scotland's relations with your vassals being quite bad probably, they dishonored.
The message that appear on screen are listed with the oldest under all the other, so you start clicking by the most recent. To have the correct chronology, you need to pile them in reverse order (or look in the small message box).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So, thus, in this second scenario, I have all of my northern provinces, but Brittany has all three of hers. I also have my southern border solid.
That's not a bad outcome either. You got three provinces of Burgundy, right ? So net earnings are of 7 provinces. And if the truce lasts enough, you can diplo-annex your vassals if they're without big army, since your economy is much bigger, especially with Flandern. Besides, sheridan, if IIRC, Austria gets a core on Artois and F-C too, so you already have border disputes oncoming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Was there something I should have done about that province?
Starting to siege early, even if with a small army. What matter is that you're the first. Or you could have waited, hoping that England would settle for money with your vassal before making peace with you, allowing you to siege the province.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What do I do about it now? I mean, wait 5 years and then declare war on England?
First : wait, build your TCs and armies back to support limit (and maintenance to 50% when at peace). Perhaps your vassal will get the province (it's not sure, but you'd never know). If England keeps the province, wait a bit, diplo-annex your provinces (the strategy I adviced didn't work, so better annex them early), and make a new alliance (keep Scotland, try to get Eire, and possibly Aragon and Navarra). Build your relations with Navarra and Aragon, try to diplo-vassalize them (if your income and monarch are sufficiently higher - it's not probable you'd succeed, but it's a possibility, and you could just diplo-annex Aragon before Spain forms ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Should I have just agreed with Scotland, but done nothing about it?
Yes, I think so. You just needed to invite your vassals back into the alliance. Eire is unimportant, I doubt Scotland could totally invade them without help, but they're no threat to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Which scenario would you think it best for me to play out? I doubt I'll keep playing both. In either case I've got to deal with England on the mainland. I think I'm stronger with the channel provinces. Seems like it would be easier to get Brittany as a vassel or force annex or whatever that all is called if she only has one territory.
The first, where you got Britanny's provinces. The chances are good now that Castile or Portugal, or Aragon, force-annexes Britanny, and you could later fight them over it. If Portugal or Castile, you should use the CB later to conquer their capital (and their maps), and conquer (and keep) either Azores or Canaries, to help your exploration/colonization.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #6 (POST-100 YEAR’S WAR)
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What is CRT?
Combat Resolution Table.
How well you're going to do in battles depends not directly on you land technology level, but on you CRT, which changes once ever several levels (those that say "your troops will now be more efficient in combat")

Quote:
And I'll get Burgundy by just being here? Is there something I should do to ensure that, or just go on my merry way?
Don't fight them - the event won't happen if they are at war. And you may always have some bad luck and they may choose not to go with giving you their provinces.

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It won't let me build transports though. What's up with that?
Which naval level you've already researched?
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
The thing that I'm noticing is that the dates actually move slowly. Meaning, I've played a long time, yet it's only 1435, so I'm forever away from some of the events you've talked about in the 1460s or even 1500s. Yikes the entire game is 1800s. Woah.
I understand what you mean. I rarely finish my GCs, I frequently stop by 1700 (a bit earlier or later), unless it's a very tough game or I'm very eager to go on. Just put the speed to Fast while at peace, and pause to act or take a look at things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Some new questions:
What is CRT?
Combat Resolution Table. It determines the amount of damage (both material and morale) your armies and fleets inflict. Land CRT change at levels 9 (you get a fire phase, so it's the most important), 14, 18, 26, 35 and 51. Naval CRT increase at levels 9, 21, 43 and 51.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Should I have taken Joan of Arc or not? (I didn't based on the Aristocracy bonus---did I read that right, that it was going to bump me up two notches, as if I had moved the slider myself?) I was so confused there, but I just dove on in.
I usually take it, since all slider moves are good and you get +1 stability, some infantry and 1000d in tech investments, while declining her make you lose 1 point of stability, to get a fortress and some cavalry, but the DP sliders are generally neutral for me : Land+2 and Innovative-1 (for colonisation, but I'd prefer both positive or both negative, depending if I want heavy colonization or not), while more Aristocracy and Serfdom hurts your morale and your economy (and I usually go plutocratic and Free-subjects, remember).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Well, the game certainly dictates some things doesn't it. Brittany dropped her vassel status from England and, so like one of you urged if she was alone, I hammered her quickly. THen, during peace, I was offered the chance to just annex her. I wasn't sure what I should do; I guess had I refused, there would have been some kind of vassel status, but I just went for it. Ticked off everyone else in Europe I notice; probably blew whatever faint hope I might have had in annexing Aragon.
Yep, you just got 6 BB, and a very big relations hit. You'll need time to repair this, and to send money to diplo-annex Aragon.

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Originally Posted by carlec
Then my allies went crazy on me---crazy vassels. In the end, I just restarted the saved game.
What do you mean by 'crazy' ? Did they drop of alliance and DoW you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I was able to annex the A ally (Central France), then in a year or so later, the Bourbonnaise group. I've got Provence very happy.
Auvergne and Bourbonnais. Fine, just wait till the historical event to inherit Provence (only 0.5 BB, not 2 BB, since now you have to be careful).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Finally, following (I think) lawkeeper's idea, I went ahead to attack Burgundy hoping to take Holland and the other one. Done. So, whenever that Austria thing happens, assuming I still hold these, Austria won't get them? I can probably vassel them once the Calvin thing happens like sheridan suggested. And I'll get Burgundy by just being here? Is there something I should do to ensure that, or just go on my merry way?
No : between 1476 and 1484, as soon as Burgundy is at peace, and France and Austria exist, the inheritance will happen, you'll get cores for Artois, Franche-Comté and Bourgogne, and a CB against Austria. But make sure Britanny doesn't exist, or you'd secede F-C to Austria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
These border disputes---those are going to alwasy be money issues aren't they. I mean, they won't go to war on it. I can tick them off and lose stability and relationship points, but to go to war over it, they'd have to actually declare that. So I can protect that issue by simply agreeing with them.
You're talking of the random events, right ? Going for the money gives you +1 stability, so the choice is easy. But look at what country it's applied : if it's one of your neighbours, you could find a use to this CB (even at the cost of -1 stability).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Aragon and Navarre are in a constant war, though this time it looks like Aragon brought in her allies Naples and Milan. Should I get involved in that, or just wait till the 1440-50 period that you mentioned sheridan?
If you're at peace and your country is doing fine, you could DoW them and join in, but only if Béarn is not yet under siege (or if you have a leader nearby to steal the siege).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I did successfully siege England's provinces, but you were right that she would not budge and I could not land an army on her soil of any magnitude. I gave up trying for now, deciding to wait till her War of the Roses crap starts. Then go with the sheridan plan again, hoping to get them then. I guess I need to build more ships. It won't let me build transports though. What's up with that?
You can build galleys to achieve local superiority in the Channel at a cheap cost, you won't have problems of attrition as long as you stay in your national waters. Or wait until England has an ally on mainland, one of your neighbours preferably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So, I'm pretty big right now and will move to annex Provence soon. I could wait on the 1451 event, but she's already tried to drag me into a war with Savoi, who is allied with Austria. I don't want to join that,do I?
Go to the war, diplo-vassalize Savoy. It's the key to northern Italy. You won't suffer any BB for this, and if Savoy is alone the risks are low. IIRC, you have a leader now, so you may let Provence do the work of attacking Savoy's armies, and move in for the sieges. But you need to be quick to offer peace before Provence concludes it. The best would be if Savoy has an ally : then, you can make a separate peace with that ally, and take your time with Savoy.

Good play, the fun part with France is just beginning.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #7
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Allies going crazy meant that both Bourbonnaise and then Provence tried to drag me into wars. I understand that as "independant" countries they can do that, but it totally screwed up "my plans." I mean, isn't the world supposed to bow to my wishes? :rofl:

I wish I could have spoken with you before Joan of Arc. I meant to ask since I knew it was coming. Poop. Oh well, I was mostly thinking the Aristocracy thing would be helpful for the annexations.
Bah, let's go to war, but make white peace. As long as you don't give military accesses, Bourbonnais is safe, and as Provence can only lose it's capital (Maine is surrounded by you), it won't give any province, only money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Brittany is certainly gone, but I guess you would have been able to force vassel them and then, 10-30 years later, just take them. She was allied with Eire and I guess I was afraid that she'd break out of vassel and all and, well, I just went for it. Certainly did tick off a bunch of people.
When you force-vassalize a country, it leaves its alliance, so you can invite them in yours (if you still have empty slots in it). You just need to send gifts to raise your relations over 100-130 quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And Savoy IS ALLIED with Austria. So, if Provence does the DoW, I don't get into trouble by going with her? And I have 3-4 leaders, so I can steal all the sieges. I just didn't want to tick of Austria. But I forget that I can go to peace with Austria alone.
Austria is still rather small, right ? I guess the 6 original provinces, more 1-3 possible conquests. And i don't think they have leaders for now. You don't need to be afraid of Austria, nor any iberian, before 1520-40 or so. So go on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And you really think I should DoW Navarre? Would Aragon think that a good thing or a bad thing?
If you can do with the stab loss for same religion (and possibly good relations), which is only -1, go. You'll get only 1 BB for the DoW, and nothing for the province (it's your core), you only need to achieve a big enough warscore, but with your leaders, steal the sieges of both provinces.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

I did DoW Navarre, stole the sieges, took my province, did the force vassal thing. But didn't think about the alliance thing. Grrrr. Well, I mean I did think about it, but since relations were -150, I just let it go. Of course, in the meanwhile, she got attacked by Portugal and Castille and was force-annexed, so Navarre is gone. I mean, I guess its all cool since that was not my province, but still. And heck, I can't see that Portugal got ANY NEGATIVE energy from it around the world. I checked her relations with everyone and they all seem high, all seem the same. And geez, everyone seems to hate me. Of course, I am the biggest country right now, so maybe they are all afraid. I really DO want to follow sheridan's plan of staying out of constant European wars and really focus on colonization, so I hate it that everyone hates me.

You were suggesting that I ally (at some point) with Austria or Spain, but they both hate me so much. I just didn't think about using the diplomats to move up like that.

Actually, the one thing I was looking at right now was Aragon who still is NOT in an alliance with Castille and they love me (one of the few, +180). But dang it, they are in an alliance still with Naples who consistently gets them into wars, so the alliance doesn't end.

And I'm watching, unsure, what to do with Alsace and Lourraine. Strassbourg (alsace) loves me, but also is in an alliance while Lourraine hates me. They both have 3-4 nation alliances with minor German states. But I'm afraid to try some kind of DoW, force-vassel thing due to growing higher in the BB scrore.

You are right about Austria, still pretty small, though her king was just chosen HRE, so don't know if she has more power than that. But still, the whole BB thing has me a bit freaked about the Provence deal. Oh, and Scotland drug me and Provence into war again with England.

Well, not too big of a deal, right? I used it to invade and this time, because she was really invested into Scotland, I got in, captured London and was able to squeeze Gascony from her. I would have tried to stay and score high enough to get the other province, but she was coming down with an army of about 20 and I was really struggling to sneak another army across due to her large navy. So I took what I could get and got back out. However, much to my surprise, I apparently wasn't the leader of the alliance, and neither Scotland or Provence got out of the war. All of a sudden, about a year later, I see England invading Provence and currently has a small army there. And England smoked Scotland, taking all of her other provinces but the core one. Did not get a force vassal thing, but Scotland is nothing now. I guess I should be worried about England again now that she is much bigger.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #8
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, what about fortress levels? I finally inched past land tech 2, but those are pretty expensive. I obviously can't do fortress 2 in every province, or at best, I could do one or 2 each year. Is there any advice about where to start doing that?
Yes - don't

If you're playing a single player, don't build fortresses. Minimal level maybe. Or in some key and crucial border provinces you might consider upgrading some more. Other than that, building fortresses is a waste of money. AI isn't too bright really, if it ever invades you, you'd be better off buying more armies for the money you saved on fortresses. Buy something useful instead, manufactory or something.
__________________
sheridan

I agree; in the case of France, I usually build minimum fortresses in every colony, and I only exceed that in mainland France, and then only in long-term border provinces - basically, using them as something of a Maginot Line.

Rousillion, Bearn, Provence, Savoie, F-C, and Alsace, and on to somewhere on the North Sea coast, for example. (Depending on the timeframe and the turn of Burgundy events; it's possible for either Calais, Flanders, or Friesland to be the coastal extent of your core provinces.)

Of course, that's assuming a France that is not expansionist *within* Western Europe.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I did DoW Navarre, stole the sieges, took my province, did the force vassel thing. But didn't think about the alliance thing. Grrrr. Well, I mean I did think about it, but since relations were -150, I just let it go. Of course, in the meanwhile, she got attacked by Portugal and Castille and was force-annexed, so Navarre is gone. I mean, I guess its all cool since that was not my province, but still. And heck, I can't see that Portugal got ANY NEGATIVE energy from it around the world. I checked her relations with everyone and they all seem high, all seem the same. And geez, everyone seems to hate me. Of course, I am the biggest country right now, so maybe they are all afraid. I really DO want to follow sheridan's plan of staying out of constant European wars and really focus on colonization, so I hate it that everyone hates me.
As long as you don't have too much BB, and your catholic tolerance slider is at max, it will improve. You only need good relations with your vassals and allies. As long as your army is strong, you won't be DoWed. What's your BB now BTW ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
You were suggesting that I ally (at some point) with Austria or Spain, but they both hate me so much. I just didn't think about using the diplomats to move up like that.
It can be quite necessary. It won't ensure permanent peace, but at least your opponents will be faraway (Poland, OE). Though you need to carefully monitor your allies. I'd like a screenshot of Europe now, if you can do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
ACtually last night I quit becuase I didn't really know what to do next except what the clock run. I've had a ton of special events as Charles VII and trying to keep up with that stuff is taxing and as a newbie sometimes I'm just not sure. Those events sure do slam the domestic sliders, don't they?
I always find them mostly beneficial, when you choose rightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Still struggling to make sense of the time issue. It's still only the late 1430s, so still many of the coming events that you guys initially told me about have not come, but already I'm chomping at the bit about stuff like colonization. but, if I understand correctly, I can't do anything till I get an explorer and that's not till the 1500s. So when I look at something like the domestic sliders where you all encouraged me to keep certain ones at certain places to foster exploration and colonization, I wonder about "do I do that now" but then note that it's several, several hours away. I guess I could speed the game up some, but already things seem to happen too fast or I miss stuff (like Navarre getting taken by Portugal).
And you'll need to research naval tech then, to get explorers (if you moved your DP to Naval). Colonization is a sure way to get tons of money, but you just have to wait until mid-1500s to really explore and colonize. Don't forget you can only move of one 'click' every ten years, so big changes need time.
If you stay catholic, be wary of Treaty of Tordesillas : when you see the shield of Spain or Portugal in a province, this means they can enter it and 'steal' the province, even when at peace.
BTW, could you tell what's your DP sliders look like by now ? And how many colonists do you get per year (hover your pointer on the colonist symbol on the upper screen) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So anyway, I was just sitting last night trying to determine what to do. I suppose with the Brittany event, I've become the badboy king, so I wonder if I've already screwed up in trying to stay nice in Europe. So heck, I might as well start attacking everyone. jk Don't want the entire world mad at me---have to wait till the early 1700s when I'm Louis XIV to get the entire world mad at me as France. But hey, maybe that's France's MO---get big, tick off everyone and still almost pull it off.
Don't launch a WC-attempt. I think you're still clear of BB threshold, tough. You only took Brittany, right ? one DoW-with CB (1BB) (Navarre). The threshold is well over 30. Getting F-C and Flanders without core (IIRC), is 1 or 2 BB/prov (I don't remember if it's a defensive or offensive war). All the other provinces, you had cores, so they were BB-free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
ACtually, the one thing I was looking at right now was Aragon who still is NOT in an alliance with Castille and they love me (one of the few, +180). But dang it, they are in an alliance still with Naples who consistently gets them into wars, so the alliance doesn't end.
Diplo-annex your vassals by 1440 (it's easily possible), and join them. Diplo-vassalize Aragon immediately (it could take you some attempts tough, they're far from poor), and you'll have time enough to diplo-annex them after 30 years. But be quick, because in 1442 they'll get Naples as vassal, and a diplo-vassalization will become impossible.
The other possibility is a little war and a force-vassalization, since you have a CB (due to Roussillon), it'll be only 1 BB (and -1 stab for same religion, and perhaps another -1 for RM, and -1 or -2 for good relations ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And I'm watching, unsure, what to do with Alsace and Lourraine. Strassbourg (alsace) loves me, but also is in an alliance while Lourraine hates me. They both have 3-4 nation alliances with minor German states. But I'm afraid to try some kind of DoW, force-vassel thing due to growing higher in the BB scrore.
A FV doesn't increase your BB, only the DoW will. One possibility is to diplo-annex your vassals, then jump in their alliance to diplo-vassalize a maximum of them (but I doubt you could DV Aragon then). It's up to you, it's a choice of strategic goal : the mediterranean or the HRE first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
You are right about Austria, still pretty small, though her king was just chosen HRE, so don't know if she has more power than that. But still, the whole BB thing has me a bit freaked about the Provence deal. Oh, and Scotland drug me and Provence into war again with England.
As Emperors, they'll just get access through all HRE, a bit of manpower and a few money. Have you already taken every english french-provinces ? If you built enough galleys, you could drop an army in England, and try to force-vassalize them (to show them their proper place, as vassals of the King of France). The hard point is actually dropping this army and maintaining a constant flow of reinforcements, and making it a separate war (as Scotland will conclude peace long before you have sufficient warscore to force-vassalize).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Well, not too big of a deal, right? I used it to invade and this time, because she was really invested into Scotland, I got in, captured London and was able to squeeze Gascony from her. I would have tried to stay and score high enough to get the other province, but she was coming down with an army of about 20 and I was really struggling to sneak another army across due to her large navy. So I took what I could get and got back out. However, much to my surprise, I apparently wasn't the leader of the alliance, and neither Scotland or Provence got out of the war. All of a sudden, about a year later, I see England invading Provence and currently has a small army there. And England smoked Scotland, taking all of her other provinces but the core one. Did not get a force vassel thing, but Scotland is nothing now. I guess I should be worried about England again now that she is much bigger.
I should have learned to read posts before writing my answer, you'd think, but no !
Scotland DoWed, so Scotland is the leader of the war. That's it. You should have waited, I think you can completely crush England now (and force-vassalize them [trouncer-smiley] ).
The scottish provinces won't earn England much more income, but all-of-a-sudden, Scotland has been reduced to non-important matter. Scotland can win against England, but only as long as France is in the war : otherwise, the fight is disproportionate. I'd say your situation has worsened after this war. It could be interesting to drop Scotland of your allliance (or don't renew them after you've diplo-annexed Provence).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I'm trying to build up infrastructure and trade like we talked about, but all these minor wars have made me have to spend some money in treasury to cover the war or stability. Anyway, I can only hope that those are moving fast enough to do what you said--grow my economy to the place that I can then hyper spend on land/navy by the very early 1500s.
Try to stay at peace. That's the point of allying with Spain and Austria : they won't DoW you, and if England is blocked in its islands, it'll stay neutral too. And don't hesitate to make white peace when drag into wars by your allies when you have no interest in the fight (and if it won't defeat your allies, as in your late war against England).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Building a manufactory---you can only build one, huh? I built a FAA in Isle de Paris because it said I'd get more $$ for it, but I didn't note that I could only build one thing there. I built the second one in France Compte in an effort to stop the rebellions. Do those just keep coming or what? It's particularly bad in the Netherlands. Are you sure I can hang on to those till the 1500s? I'm wondering if I should create a vassel out of them now rather than waiting for the Calvin event.
You can build as many manufacturies you want, but a FAA in Paris is wrong : you'll get a FAA by event during Louis XIV's reign. Other grain provinces are right (Orleannais, Berri, etc). Don't build them too close to borders, since every hostile army entering in the province could burn it (it's random, the chance is low, but it happens). And if possible, avoid provinces with high revoltrisk (as all dutch provinces, or with nationalism still rampant ), even if a manu decreases the RR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, and one more about the alliances--right now I'm only Provence and Scotland which, as I said, are basically nothing now. Once Provence comes to me through that event (assuming that happens as you guys have said), I'll be basically alone and almost everyone hates me now and/or is already in an alliance. Even if I buy up the friendship, if they are already in alliances, how do I get in on that? Cancel my own (screw Scotland obviously, ticking them off I'm sure)? Then try to invite myself in? Don't I want to always be the alliance leader? Again, I checked the FAQs and didn't really see anything on that.
Being the leader is surely a boon, but your alliance's size will be limited then. You can join an alliance as long as you have good alliances with the alliance leader. You can also wait for the alliances to end (carefully monitor the end dates, as no message will popup - look in the ledger, Alliances- ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Well, I sure enjoy checking here to share my story and getting your expert advice guys. Thanks and maybe my own story is going to prove fruitful for some other newbie. Or maybe I'm just rambling, but I sure do appreciate you helping me. If I ever can get it down, then I might be able to use it in class, at least to perhaps show them the map, some of the patchwork quilt of early Europe, etc....
Indeed, I'll propose to Flame of Udun to include this thread in his Strategic Guide. It begins to be rather well furnished, and I hope it'll go on.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
As long as you don't have too much BB, and your catholic tolerance slider is at max, it will improve.
However, both you and the other country can at any time get a relation-decreasing event, so the process may be somewhat random - it's not necessarily a steady increase.

Quote:
You can build as many manufacturies you want
I think carlec meant he can only build one per province (as he writes "I could only build one thing there") - and that is certainly true.

Quote:
but a FAA in Paris is wrong
Well, if you built it elsewhere, it would bring 6d per year less in income. If it costs you 900d, that makes 150 years of difference. Your FAA in Paris comes in 1682 only, so even if it came free you would still be better off if you built it yourself before 1532. And in fact you have to pay 1500d and a net of two points of stability for it - so I'm not so sure building it yourself is really such a bad deal.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
However, both you and the other country can at any time get a relation-decreasing event, so the process may be somewhat random - it's not necessarily a steady increase.
Or relations-increasing events. But given the number of countries, overall it'll increase - there'll be random cases tough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
I think carlec meant he can only build one per province (as he writes "I could only build one thing there") - and that is certainly true.
Yep, certainly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Well, if you built it elsewhere, it would bring 6d per year less in income. If it costs you 900d, that makes 150 years of difference. Your FAA in Paris comes in 1682 only, so even if it came free you would still be better off if you built it yourself before 1532. And in fact you have to pay 1500d and a net of two points of stability for it - so I'm not so sure building it yourself is really such a bad deal.
I never saw it that way, but it sounds right. At least if you only have a couple of manufactories. It doesn't matter where your manufactures are, only how many you have.
But usually, I've so many manufactories that paying 1500d for a FAA, more the 1500d of lost income, since it's 250 years of waiting, so 3000d total losses. But manufactures'prices easily go over 3000d by 1600, so it's finally a benefit to gain one. I think that 10-12 manufactures raise the cost well over 3000, but I don't have any numbers on it.
And in fact, you gain a net 2 points of stability : you lose 1 in the first event, but you gain 3 in the second.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #9
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
am I supposed to figure out some website to host this picture in order for you to see it?
Unfortunately, yes, that's what you have to do if you want to post a screenie.

Quote:
I had it below normal and would see various events happening around the globe at that speed.
That's slow. I usually play in at least Fast, with pausing when something needs to be done and possibly slowing down for a war.

Quote:
Has this been documented before or was I merely dreaming?
I don't know. My guess would be that the frequency of random events is tied to the in-game time, not the real time, but I haven't done any tests on this and I haven't played with different speeds much enough to draw any conclusions from the personal experience.

The rise in activity by AI may be result of so called AI waking - which happens after the reload. Or maybe there were some extra historical events that hit AI in this particular period. Or maybe it was simply random - when things are random you will have more events in some years and fewer in others.

Quote:
with her force-annex, I could discern none of the relationship hit that I took with Brittany. Am I not seeing real numbers or was it just because I am a real person (vs. and AI)?
I don't think it's related to you being human, but there are various factors influencing how much the relations change, if I recall being allied is one of them and religion has some part too (though it's obviously too early for you for this to matter) - so maybe your situation wasn't exactly the same and some factors caused the relation change in both situations to differ?

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Had I done so, would Scotland have still attacked or would she have been prevented?
You can't really know, but my experience is that AI is less likely to attack a country allied to a strong country.

Quote:
Was that an optional thing?
Oh, you poor thing You just had some bad luck.

Yes, it's optional. Provence can opt to become a French vassal (some 5% chance) or an English vassal (some 5% chance), rather than choose to join France (well, the rest, ie about 90% chance). From what you say, it seems they chose to go with England - but since they were already vassalized by you, they couldn't become an English vassal and got a royal marriage with them only.

Quote:
I bet that means that I have to wait 10 more years doesn't it. Did I miss something?
Not really, no.
There is always (OK, I don't know for sure it's actually "always", but my feeling is that it is so) a chance they will refuse the annexation offer, and a chance they will cancel the vassalization. The larger you are, the richer you are, the better your monarch, the smaller the chance of failure, but it can happen to any country.
And yes, you have to wait for another 10 years.
But know this - diplovassalization is much harder than diploannexation. If you didn't have much problem with getting them back as your vassal, then you probably simply had some bad luck and it shouldn't be so tough to annex them.

You may want to wait for more than 10 years, too. Longer vassalization increases the chance of successful annexation.

Quote:
I just don't seem to know if merely watching is good (no wars, usually) or if I am missing some crucial activity that I am supposed to do.
Well, EU2 is really not a kind of game where you're supposed to do anything. You can play it peacefully by building a strong economy, you can become a great trading power, a colonizer, or you could be a badboy warmonger. Or all of these. Whatever suits you and doesn't get you bored

Quote:
I checked on making the Dutch places a vassel and it won't let me. What gives there? I thought I could turn them loose if I wanted, but it currently is not letting me.
Which provinces are we talking about exactly? Different countries have different conditions. Some require Burgundy not to exist, some can't be release before 1490s, some can't be release after 1490s. Holland itself can only be released after 1558.

Quote:
Anyway, could I have helped Alsace?
If you don't want to go to war with Austria, you can help Alsace in other ways. You can give them money so that they can build more troops (but that's risky, because first of all if all their provinces are sieged it won't helped and second of all, AI will not know that low-morale armies shouldn't be send to combat, so it may build the armies and lose it instantly, decreasing its warscore and wasting your money). Or you could ask them for military access and send troops to Alsace. That won't stop Austria from sieging the provinces, but it will starve Austrian armies (yours, too) - and because of attrition they will probably not be able to successfully win control over any Alsacian province.

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When it was over, she was force-vasseled into Austria. She was alone, no alliance, but I can't ally with her?
No. You can't ally with another country's vassal.

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Can I make her drop Austria?
Not really. You could ally with Austria, build up relations with her, and them attack Alsace and ask Austria to join - if they do, vassalization will be broken, but that's pretty much the only way I can think of.

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Earlier, one of you said to build a "winery" or "refinery" in the wine countries, but in my list of manufactors, I only have a brewery. Is that the same thing?
Yes.

Quote:
But, when I last checked at April 1446, it had dropped to 11.3. ACtually towards the end, I checked and it was somewhere in the 10s. I didn't realize it could come down.
It goes down when you lose provinces, but also simply by itself as time goes by. The better your monarch's diplo skill and the easier the level, the faster it drops.
__________________
Isaac Brock

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec

So I sped up the game speed and actually could discern no appreciable rise in activity by the AI. I had it below normal and would see various events happening around the globe at that speed. No way to get an actual count, but it would seem that about 15-25 messages appeared per month (again guessing, but about 15-30 minutes of real time). I was trying to get to the Provence event before I left for church tonight, so I just sped up and tried to concentrate a lot more. However, unless I was mistaken, the number of events per month sure seemed to decrease or I got the same number of events in about the same real time, but obviously at "above normal" speed, I went through many more days. Has this been documented before or was I merely dreaming?
You're dreaming. You can check the 'history' in your savegame if you don't believe me.

Quote:
Scotland decided that since she lost all of her country, she would go and get all of Eire, taking it all. Again, with her force-annex, I could discern none of the relationship hit that I took with Brittany. Am I not seeing real numbers or was it just because I am a real person (vs. and AI)? And, there was a moment when I could have tried to ally with Eire before Scotland's war. Had I done so, would Scotland have still attacked or would she have been prevented?
They probably started out with much better relations with everyone else, and so the change wasn't as obvious. Again if you have a before and after savegame you should be able to see a real change.

Quote:
The Provence event didn't happen as discussed. Was that an optional thing? I waited till 1451 and then all of a sudden, I got a note from England saying something about Provence and inheritance and a royal marriage.
Ouch, bad luck. About 5% of the time they decide to be 'inherited' by England instead of France. Crappy luck unfortunately.

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Provence stayed in my alliance and as my vassel but did not just join me. So, in March 1452, I quit waiting and tried to annex, I had relationship of 197, bigger army, economy, +2 stability, no war, etc.... She DROPPED THE VASSEL STATUS. Grrr ---I went to work to get her back (as vassel and in alliance--successful), but I bet that means that I have to wait 10 more years doesn't it. Did I miss something?
Yep you have to wait. This is a bit of a surprise. What was their stability? If you can catch them at lower stability that helps.

Quote:
I feel like the AI is allying and warring and doing all kinds of stuff while I am basically sitting there watching my country. I am spending the right amount of money in stuff and moving up (just got Tech 3 and am 1/2 to Trade 3). I just don't seem to know if merely watching is good (no wars, usually) or if I am missing some crucial activity that I am supposed to do.

Well there is always trade to work on. And you can set up royal marrriages to help keep your relationships only slightly negative.

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I checked on making the Dutch places a vassel and it won't let me. What gives there? I thought I could turn them loose if I wanted, but it currently is not letting me.
You'll have to wait until the mid-16th century for that.

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Strassbourg (Alsace) got into a war with Austria with her alliance and then got personally attacked. I wanted to rush to her aid (we had +195 relations and RM). Could I have done so? All I could think of was DoW Austria, but due to an action by Provence (don't ask), we got into and then out of a deal with her Austria (via Savoy). Anyway, could I have helped Alsace? When it was over, she was force-vasseled into Austria. She was alone, no alliance, but I can't ally with her? That seems a bit lame. Can I make her drop Austria?
Other than joining Strassbourg's alliance that is all that you can do. Don't worry too much. With a bit of luck Austria will diplo-annex Alsace. Then you'll be able to get it at much less BB cost.

Quote:
If I have understood you all right, I should, at some point soon (by the 1450s is what sheridan wrote), attack Aragon. But what am I really trying to do-- to get a)my one province, b) get as much as I can, or c) get as much as I can and force vassel her?

A combination of a and c really. I think he was suggesting that you just make sure to get Rousillon. A quick war, should be cheap, and a nice French culture province all for one BB. Alternatively you could try to get Rousillon (and no more) and vassalize Aragon. This would make them very unlikely to merge with Spain, which is definitely to your advantage. They are a pain in the butt to vassalize though because you have to take all of those islands, plus possibly Naple as well.

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OK, so in the meanwhile, Castille and Portugal had allied with England, Burgundy and Novrogard. But, Navarre (remember her; she had been taken over by Portugal), rebelled and when Portugal DoW'ed her, everyone else bailed. So, should I DoW Navarre too, beat Portugal to the punch (my relation with Navarre is like -11)? Should I DoW both Navarre and Portugal? Should I try to raise relations and ally with Navarre and then attack Aragon? Should I try to bring Castille into an alliance with Aragon?Somehow, the whole concept of being Aragon's friend and then attacking her just to get my province, then raising our relations again seems weird, lame or perhaps just mean. Yet, I realize that if I'm going to vassel her (do I really need to do that--sheridan, I don't going your way, right?), I'll need to really attack her hard, control 3-4 provinces, etc....

what do you want to do? I think all you really want from Navarre is Bearn. Now is definitely the best time to grab that province, again for just one BB, and then ignore them. You don't really need to be Aragon's friend any more - they are no longer a huge threat to you, and they are likely going to be absobed by Spain in 1516. Early on you absolutely need to befriend them, because until you've kicked the English of the continent they are a very big threat. Now they aren't a real problem.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #10
__________________
sheridan

Aragon and Navarre, you just want their northernmost provinces (Rousillion and Bearn) - if you go any further than that, they are non-core provinces and you will incur a lot more BB, in addition to the provinces having the wrong culture for you. You can wait until you pick up land tech 5, as long as (in Aragon's case) it's before 1470 or so, as they will usually become a vassal and ally of Spain in the late 1470's. You do not need nor want to fight Spain, period. In fact, ally with them if possible, once you have diploannexed everyone you plan to.

You don't *need* any vassals outside of the area you plan to eventually control, for my strategy - although certainly it will not hurt you. I use vassalization of the smaller countries like Brittany and Lorraine as a means to diploannexing. If you *want* to forcevassal Spain or England, and can manage it, go ahead and try - just don't plan on annexing them.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Scotland decided that since she lost all of her country, she would go and get all of Eire, taking it all. Again, with her force-annex, I could discern none of the relationship hit that I took with Brittany.
The RMs also play a role, and I suspect, without any proof due to lack of time to experiment, that the relations in regards to other countries, both to you and to the annexed-country, matter (a greater relations hit if they had better relations with the annexed). But as I said, I have absolutely no proof of it (not statistically significant at least), and no time to check. And it could just be an impression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I feel like the AI is allying and warring and doing all kinds of stuff while I am basically sitting there watching my country. I am spending the right amount of money in stuff and moving up (just got Tech 3 and am 1/2 to Trade 3). I just don't seem to know if merely watching is good (no wars, usually) or if I am missing some crucial activity that I am supposed to do.
The AI is always warring, it seems it's one of the most frequent things it does. All the contrary to human players.
More seriously, wars are double-edged : you could end up with a great boost for your country, but you could also end without any benefit, or worse : with losses, be it money, troops, provinces, or a mix. You could even be losing while getting a province (if you paid too high a price to get it). All the time you spend researching now, means you'll have easier time during future wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Strassbourg (Alsace) got into a war with Austria with her alliance and then got personally attacked. I wanted to rush to her aid (we had +195 relations and RM). Could I have done so? All I could think of was DoW Austria, but due to an action by Provence (don't ask), we got into and then out of a deal with her Austria (via Savoy). Anyway, could I have helped Alsace? When it was over, she was force-vasseled into Austria. She was alone, no alliance, but I can't ally with her? That seems a bit lame. Can I make her drop Austria?
Well, the peace-keeping is perhaps harsh for your own troops (and costly), but short of a war or gifts, it's the only other thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I did allied with Lourraine and am counting the years to annex her, but after the Provence deal, I'm worried. Telling me "no" is one thing---dropping out of our deal stinks. I guess as a free country they can do that, but. . .
Let the years pass, until you have a high DIP-monarch. Well, you don't get any higher than 6 until Henry IV. So just make sure you have economic, military and time factors. They will only breakvassal if they refuse your offer (and not always), so make sure they accept. They're one-province, so it's easy to have all the other advantages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
lawkeeper, my BB was at 13.6 at July 1438 (when I started up again after your last post). But, when I last checked at April 1446, it had dropped to 11.3. ACtually towards the end, I checked and it was somewhere in the 10s. I didn't realize it could come down. That's cool.
The exact rate of decrease is, per month, DIP/240, 360 or 480, depending on the difficulty : 240 for Normal and below, 360 for Hard, and 480 for VH. For a DIP of 6 e.g., it means an annual decrease of respectively 0.3, 0.2 or 0.15 BB.
Keep these numbers in mind, to better plan whether or not you want to take BB.

For the stability, you could do other things at -3 (canceling RMs, MAs, IIRC, or embargoes), but DoW at stability -2, don't wait for it to increase.
Moreover, being at war would maybe make other countries to DoW you, and every DoW while you're at negative stab will make it improve by +1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And speaking of that, the Iberian Penisula has gotten interesting and I'm not sure what to do with Aragon. She already had vassel with Naples and she has expanded to a ton of islands in the Med. Her alliance remains at war, so that option is out. And no need for me to drop Scotland since she now has bigger size. I'm sure she is planning on attacking England again soon to get her stuff back, so I'm hoping to be ready to get my final English province; we are close to the War of the Roses mess. But, Aragon remains a good friend, though I let the RM lapse so as to not get the -BB hit if I DoW.
They have a vassal : until they either lose it or annex it, you won't possibly diplo-vassalize them. But the road to force-vassalization is still open. However, I doubt you could rake up enough warscore to get it with only the iberian provinces, so you'd need to build a fleet. Unless you can get at other members of her alliance : then, simply grab their provinces, and you'll end up with a big enough warscore to FV them. The only thing to do before : insulting them, to decrease the stability hit of the DoW.
Who are they warring with ? Who's in their alliance ? It could matter. It certainly matter. If they're allied to Castile, you can get enough warscore without fleet. If not, they'll prolly enter the war - DoWing Aragon.
Who Naples is allied to ? Same alliance as Aragon, or are they alone ? Are they single-province : you can hope that someone annex them (help the luck by DoWing them if you don't care about 4BB, but letting your allies annex them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
If I have understood you all right, I should, at some point soon (by the 1450s is what sheridan wrote), attack Aragon. But what am I really trying to do-- to get a)my one province, b) get as much as I can, or c) get as much as I can and force vassel her?
Roussillon is not very rich of itself. So, IMO, you should go for c) force-vassal them and take a province if possible (Roussillon, which is BB-free).
The main reason to go for Aragon, is not it's (limited for you) wealth, but the fact you're denying Spain to get it. It'll also help you in Italy, to have a second front in the south. But you're engaging your future there, because if you go for Iberia and Italy, you're practically denying you the opportunity to go reformed : the choice is yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, so in the meanwhile, Castille and Portugal had allied with England, Burgundy and Novrogard. But, Navarre (remember her; she had been taken over by Portugal), rebelled and when Portugal DoW'ed her, everyone else bailed. So, should I DoW Navarre too, beat Portugal to the punch (my relation with Navarre is like -11)? Should I DoW both Navarre and Portugal? Should I try to raise relations and ally with Navarre and then attack Aragon? Should I try to bring Castille into an alliance with Aragon? Somehow, the whole concept of being Aragon's friend and then attacking her just to get my province, then raising our relations again seems weird, lame or perhaps just mean. Yet, I realize that if I'm going to vassel her (do I really need to do that--sheridan, I don't going your way, right?), I'll need to really attack her hard, control 3-4 provinces, etc....

Don't go for Navarre. If you annex them, it's 6 BB. Way too much for the relative wealth ( ) of the province.
About iberian alliances, here I need to explain you the rules of the Treaty of Tordesillas. If, sometime after 1492, both Portugal and Spain exist, the ToT will enter into action. All the world (except some parts) will be 'destined' to be spanish or portuguese, and these two countries will have the possibility to enter any catholic-owned colony/TP/city in those parts of the world, and grab it - without wars. And when I say 'grab', I really mean they'll become the owners.
Which lands does it apply to ? All South and Central America (up to Florida-California), Africa, India, Indonesia. You can see the exact provinces by shifting to the colonist-sending view : all provinces with spanish/portuguese shield.
Why do I explain this : because if either Portugal of Spain does not exist, the ToT has no effects. And if you're heading for a Mediterranean strategy, you're prolly staying catholic, so you'll need to make sure they don't grab your provinces. And the easiest way to do this, is make sure Portugal is annexed.
So - try to ally with Castile. And don't hesitate to go after Portugal, and Castile won't hesitate either. It's a little gamey, but it will ensure you free colonization, and free regions to explore.
__________________
sheridan

Of course, an easier way is simply to focus colonization on areas not affected by the TOT, which includes all of eastern North America except the Gulf Coast. Quebec and New England and Nova Scotia are well outside of the TOT zone, as is the Chesapeake Bay area.

As far as your expansion toward Iberia, I would take Bearn and Rousillion provinces (which are cores to you, and thus very low BB, no nationalism, etc) but go no further (those provinces are not cores and will not provide full income either, being of wrong culture). Forcevassal those countries if you wish, or assist computer players in taking them down a few pegs, but I would not advise conquering or diploannexing them yourself.
__________________
lawkeeper

Off course, what I say about Aragon is fully optional. Ruling over a whole France is easy enough. But taking down Aragon, Castile and/or Portugal (whatever the mean you use to discard the threat : diplo-annex, alliance, destruction) will make your life even better. Don't take too many provinces in wars : force-vassalize, and let your allies do the annexation.

And if you want motivation : Charlemagne's Empire extended until Barcelona, in northern Italy and in most of Germany.

Oh, and don't forget to build the manufactories, right ? Several Breweries, but also a couple of FAAs to start, in the central grain provinces (except Ile-de-France).
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I'm gathering the navy (galleys for the Channel) to be able to fight in the Channel.
I was just reminded by another thread:
There are only few areas were galleys can operate safely. These are the Baltic Sea up to the Skagerack, the Caspian Sea, the Black Sea, the Mediterrean Sea up to Gulf of Almeria with exception of Coast of Rhodes, and the Persian Gulf. Outside this area (which means - in the English Channel, too) they will sink pretty fast.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Man, it is so awesome when a plan comes together. I should be in bed right now (1:38 east coast US), but I just had to write you guys and give you the quick run down. See, all you other newbies, follow these guys lead and things will go well for you.

Did as directed with Aragon (she was allied with the Iberian boys), was able to get in and out, getting my one Province.

Worked up Provence and Lourraine, made nice, annexed both successfully.

Navarre again rebelled and as soon as all of Aragon DoW'ed, everyone bailed on her. So, I swooped in and got Portugal to join my alliance.

So, it was early 1460 and England, with her King, was sitting in my one last Atlantic province that she controlled with about 43,000. Yikes. Not liking this, but still waiting to see how the War of Roses might impact things. In the meanwhile, England has surrounded me with Savoy, Bavaria, Wurtzburg and Gelre. Was basically minding my own business when all of a sudden the English army was gone from my land. I knew that was my chance. So, a cool, long story sort of short, I moved some troops around and pounced.

I invaded Savoy (she counter invaded F-C). I invaded Gelre's place (she counter invaded Holland). I had also gotten Baden to join my alliance before the war started and she stayed true. So, I got military access through Alsace and attacked Bavaria (who had taken Wurttemberg). Of course I attacked my Atlantic Province and, following instructions, had amassed 2 strong navies, mostly of galleys and invaded England. Scotland attacked England's toe hold in Ireland and we were off to the races. Took about 2 years, but let's just say it went well.

At points it was a bit dicey, but I won't bore you with the details, though I am reliving it right now. Savoy proved a tough nut to crack out of FC. It didn't help me that in the previous 2-4 years, 2 of my 3 leaders had died. But eventually I got rid of her there. And Gelre held off huge French armies in Holland where they were sieging Holland, countering my seige of Geldre proper. The invasion of Bavaria was a bust, but she never attacked back or to my ally Baden and that was fine as I didn't want any land there. Scotland was successful on Ireland and I took the entire channel coast of England and then the two next provinces, including London. I was watching a somewhat large English army attempt to move south, but I waited patiently for Savoy to fall (both provinces) and to hope to beat out Gelre out of Holland. I almost thought I would have to give up doing anything with Gelre as she beat off army after army. I knew that wasn't critical, but they attacked me first (I had tried to white peace them and I did not attack them first).

Then in rapid succession it all went down: First Savoy who still had some navy units out, so I guess they weren't up for force-annex, so I took Piedmont and made them my vassel. 10+ years and she's mine. Next Geldre--since my last deal with Brittany, my BB had dropped back to less than 8, so I decided "to heck with it" and yes, did the force-annex. I figured that if I'm going to release all of Holland/Netherlands when Calvin happens, might as well have all of the Dutch provinces and keep them from the Hapsburgs if I can. Finally, England. Here, I did not overreach, still my final aim being the colonization thing that sheridan has led me on. So, I still held 4 of her provinces, including London. But I figured that even with a toe hold on the island, UNLESS I wanted to try to extend the war longer and totally take her out of existence, then I would be stuck with consistent rebellions all the time. So, I got Scotland her one province (I had also been stalling to see if Scotland would attempt to get her own northern land back, but she never did) and I got my one province back. Actually, I think England made out good. At one point, she did offer me 2 provinces and Scotland 2 provinces, but I wanted to get Savoy. That was the key for me.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #11
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Then in rapid succession it all went down: First Savoy who still had some navy units out, so I guess they weren't up for force-annex
They weren't up for force-annex because you can only force-annex one-province or Pagan countries. Enemy having armies or navies would not prevent annexation.

Quote:
I really didn't want Piedmont since it's an Italian culture. I've not read enough yet on the FAQ about that, but basically, I can assume that the culture thing means that there will be rebellions and other Italians trying to get that land?
First, if you plan to annex Savoy, then it would probably make more sense not to take Piemonte, but simply vassalize them.
Second, wrong culture means slightly more risk revolt, but as long as they are of a religion you tolerate and your stability is high, that shouldn't cause any revolts anyway.
And I wouldn't expect other Italians trying to get that land.

Quote:
So, later, once I annex SAvoy, can I release Piedmont or trade it or something? Or should I just stick the border there and be done with it?
You can't release Piemonte. You could try to give it up in some war, but I don't really see a reason why you would want to do that. Stick with it - and I would actually say, since now you have a land border with Genoa, try to vassalize them and diploannex before Austria does - it's a nice province with a CoT.

Quote:
To accomplish all this, I obviously built up my army huge. My current support limits are like 112,000 and I'm about 8-10,000 over that. Do I just go around and disband or let simple attrition happen?
That depends on what you plans are and how much a strain keeping this army is on your finances. I would't disband it probably. You may try to expand your support limit by trading more in grain-trading CoTs.
And I wouldn't bet on attrition taking care of it. If your army is below the province attrition limit, you will not lose any soldiers - and if it's not, then you shouldn't keep such a big army in such a province in the first place.

Quote:
Burgundy, who had grown to like me some (not with England as you noticed), now hates me. Do I need to worry about that for the Austrian event coming up (it's now 1466)?
No. The event is not related to your or anybody else's relations with Burgundy.

Quote:
Is this going to be like Provence where there is a 5% chance she won't come to me?
Yes
And it's 10%, not 5% - in both Provence and Burgundy case.
And the Burgundian event may not happen at all - it will only trigger if Burgundy is not at war at some point between 1476 and 1484, and I have had games where Burgundy was at war for all this period and thus managed to survive the annexation event.

Quote:
Plus, she has taken Luxembourg as a province and has a vassel, Brabant. Does that complicate the issue?
No. But you won't get Luxembourg - Austria will. And Brabant will be set free.

Quote:
I guess that will mean bailing on Scotland and Portugal at some point since none of those big guys ever seems to be without an alliance.
Set the message to be notified when another country dishonors the alliance, so you will know if one of them did and is up for grabs.
And keep an eye on the expiry date - if there are no wars for 10 years, the alliance will expire by itself.
__________________
sheridan

Oh - one thing; if you are exceedingly lucky (it's one of the 5% options) *you* may inherit Burgundy, rather than Austria - which will yield you most of its territory and core-province markers on all the Dutch provinces.

The usual choice, though, is that Austria inherits; in this case, you still get Bourgogne and a core on F-C, while Austria gets the armies and everything else.

The third choice is that Burgundy remains independent.
__________________
lawkeeper

Last to come, least to say.

Nice war, except the conquest of Piemonte, as hinted at by robin74 : you took 2 BB, while by diplo-annex you'd have gotten only 1 for this province. But it's not too important. And you're getting the flair for the diplomacy-thing (keeping an eye on Portugal) and strategy (using the error/lack of readyness of England).

On Piemonte : wrong-culture simply give a -30% to tax income and census, and +1 (+2 at war) RR, but you shouldn't have problems as long as you have high tolerance of the religion and no warexhaustion/low stability problems. But neither matter much, as long as you don't have to convert the province. Moreover, culture doesn't impact the warmongering of other countries, only the cores.
Go on a diplo-annexation-spree of Italy, it'll get you much income, and it was an historical goal of the french kings. The provinces are rich, it'll make for the wrong-culture penalty.

On techs : don't try to be more than two CRTs ahead than the other countries, it'd cost you too much. IMHO, once you hit land 9, naval 11, shift to trade & infra for an extra level or two, then go for naval 18 (automatic discovery of coastal lands, and manufacturies earlier) and land 16 (manufacturies), with extra level trade & infra when the cost of land/naval is too high. You just need to have better armies than your neighbours/potential foes, not to get at level 60 in 1650.
__________________
Notomol

You've been getting some great advice. I love playing France, too, even though my strategy at the outset is a little more patient.
Diplo-annexing is a part of the game, and perfectly valid. I'm not a big fan of constant, repetitive force-vassalization, followed by annexation 30 years later. If you're France, you conquer! You take the BB hit with a toss of your head and a Gallic snort of disdain. (too much role-playing ... can you tell)
Seriously, though, a diplo-annexing spree can result in very a-historical situations early in the game. Is that why so many people quit their GCs long before 1819?
France in the 18th century is just too much fun. Great events, great leaders. If you've diplo-annexed all of your main rivals by 1600, what is there left to do? I use the BB points as a guide, to help me pace myself in terms of conquest.
Of course, you could set the difficulty level to "Very Hard", and go on a conquest rampage ...
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheridan
Oh - one thing; if you are exceedingly lucky (it's one of the 5% options) *you* may inherit Burgundy, rather than Austria - which will yield you most of its territory and core-province markers on all the Dutch provinces.

The usual choice, though, is that Austria inherits; in this case, you still get Bourgogne and a core on F-C, while Austria gets the armies and everything else.

The third choice is that Burgundy remains independent.

I'm not fully sure I understand. You are using Burgundy and Bourgogne as seperate terms? So, the 90% option is that Austria inherits Burgundy (whatever provinces she owns) but gives France control of Bourgogne since that is core to France? And there is a 5% chance that France will get everything (including other provinces, so in this case, Luxembourg)? But there is also a 10% chance that Burgundy will stay independent? So, in that case, I'd have to go to war with them or diplo-vassel or something like that?

__________________
sheridan

Yes; Burgundy is the country, Bourgogne the province its capital is normally located in. In the inheritance events, unless Burgundy stays independent, France gets Bourgogne province; it's just the *rest* of the country that differs (either goes to France or to Austria, depending).

And the chances on that event - on *all* events, the computer has a 5% chance of picking each choice other than the first one. The rest of the time, it will pick the first choice. So the chance of Burgundy staying independent is equal to the chance of you inheriting all of it - 5% each.

That's +1 % revolt risk.

As for exploring and colonizing - you pretty much need an explorer or conquistador leader early on (later there is technologies that allow all leaders to act as these, but not until like level 30). These are distinguished by sextant and helmet icons next to their name. Armies and navies which do not have those leaders cannot enter "unexplored" territories.

You get your first explorer, Verrazano, in 1522; he should be sent roughly just north of west from Brittany; this is the shortest route to North America, and will land you near Nova Scotia. If you can manage to get military access from Portugal (for the Azores) and from whomever controls Iceland and/or the southwestern province of Ireland, you can use their ports as way stations - this will reduce the attrition and allow faster exploration (because they don't have to return to France to return to a port and reset the attrition counter).

Another option to get maps is to bribe up countries on the edge of your "known world" and trade maps with them. Usually you can get maps all the way to Japan (via Asia) on three or four trades - start with someone near Saudi Arabia, then western India, then eastern India. But be warned; do *not* trade with the Ottoman or Mameluk empires or Oman or China; of all the countries in that direction, they're about the only ones economically strong enough to set up colonies. After you have maps all the way east, Portugal and Spain will usually trade, but only once - the best time for this is just before you start exploring yourself (in about 1520), so that you don't have to re-explore areas they already have.

You can also get maps from your fellow Western European powers by successfully seiging and taking control of their capital province during a war.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
vasalize aragon and diploanex early on in the game (before 1500) is a bad thing. She have more than 10 provinces. most of them are rather poor. 10 provinces will give you 10 bb, which means your stab cost will be sky high. (bb affect stab cost). your empire will consist of multi non culture etnics. (gaelic, iberian, basque, italy if you owned piedmont, german if you took luxemburg and alscae, and dutch). without advance trade and or infra or max centralization and serfdom and fully narrowminded(bad for tech), keeping +3 stab at all time is rather hard.
Culture has no effect on stability. The 30% tax income penalty due to wrong-culture is not much, especially if you don't need to convert the province. The provinces are not rich, most of them at least (Catalogne is rich, as Sicily/Palermo), but the major benefits to DA Aragon is :
1) some strategic provinces for future wars in the Mediterranean (islands) and against Spain/Castile (to be closer to their capital - for their maps ),
2) to deny Spain access to these provinces,
3) manpower, even if lower due to max naval/quality and wrong-culture.

For the 30% penalty, by 1500 you should get at least half of your total income from production and trade, which are unaffected by this penalty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
for dp setting, i love max land + max quality + max offcense = invicible army good for WC. you can still fight people eventhough you are 1 CRT lower. max serfdom + max centralization = good stability. max freetrade = for colonist to compensate loss due to max land. max aristocracy = good diplomatic skill for vasalize. and max innovative.
Playing France means rich provinces : fast teching up. So you don't need so much the morale bonus from Land. Going naval will give more colonists.
Quality : yes, it's best.
Offensive : later, it's best to go defensive, as it fastens your sieges (which tend to be pretty long otherwise by 1700). If you're not intent on going to wage many wars, you can go naval/defensive/quality/free-subjects, without much consequences, at least against the AI.
Centralization, Free Trade : I agree, but Centralization doesn't help stability.
Serfdom : no, go Free Subjects, stability is not a problem, and you'll get morale bonus (instead of penalty) and Prodution Efficiency bonus (instead of a penalty). The PE will be very important due to the colonies.
Aristocracy : go Plutocracy. Better PE and TE (trade efficiency). You don't need the DIP bonus if you're intent on playing peaceful. Economy is more important.
Innovative : innovative is only important in the early part, but after 1500 you need lots of colonists (and missionaries to early convert pagans). So go narrowminded (which will even decrease the stabcosts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
i ussualy max out innovative till i reach level 10 infra and trade (arround 1650) . after that, you can gradually become narrowminded to lower stab cost and increase missionaries for your huge empire.
This means waiting until 1700 (at least, and prolly much more, since IIRC the current record for earliest max out of trade and infra is 1736 - in previous patches, where it was even less costly). At this time, missionaries are near-useless, and you won't get as much income from the colonies built after that.

Going both land (-1) and innovative (-2) means you'll get, if catholic (+2), free-trader (+1) and with a shipyard (+1), only one colonist per year. That is, in a century, you'll manage to build only ten colonies.
Going naval (+2), narrowminded (+2), you'll get 8 colonists per years. You'll get much more income and benefits rather soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
for land, i ussualy look out for Austria. if they have land 5, you need to get land 5. if they have land 11, you should too. don't worry about naval till you reach land 13? (new CRT). then you can invest in naval thru lv 21? (improve sight seeing).
Increased Sightrange is at 18. And you should definitely go for naval 11 when you start colonizing (to build the shipyard), and before that naval 8-9 (yes, logical - to make months really be months - Daniel A : I've already forgotten the exact level I'm incorrigible ). Without shipyard, in your strategy, you won't get any single colonist.
More important than land 5 is land 9, which gives you a firephase and a CRT : you'll win every battle. And unless Austria expanded greatly early on, it's not the prime enemy : Spain is. And if you're afraid of it, I'd advise to diplo-annex your way through southern HRE (Baden, Wurtemberg, Bavaria) and northern Italy. But you shouldn't need it, if you reach 'natural boundaries', Austria can easily be defeated.
__________________
Daniel A

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

Increased Sightrange is at 18. And you should definitely go for naval 11 when you start colonizing (to build the shipyard), and before that naval 8-9 (yes, logical - to make months really be months - Daniel A : I've already forgotten the exact level I'm incorrigible ). Without shipyard, in your strategy, you won't get any single colonist.

Have no fear lawkeeper. I'm here at your side, ready to assist. Level 9 it is when months become months.
__________________
hopi

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

Culture has no effect on stability. The 30% tax income penalty due to wrong-culture is not much, especially if you don't need to convert the province. The provinces are not rich, most of them at least (Catalogne is rich, as Sicily/Palermo), but the major benefits to DA Aragon is :
1) some strategic provinces for future wars in the Mediterranean (islands) and against Spain/Castile (to be closer to their capital - for their maps ),
2) to deny Spain access to these provinces,
3) manpower, even if lower due to max naval/quality and wrong-culture.

For the 30% penalty, by 1500 you should get at least half of your total income from production and trade, which are unaffected by this penalty.

How much your stab cost ? will you recover with -3 random event within 1 to 2 year ? with your income in 1500, i doubt you will manage to recover 1 stab in about less than 10 month.

some island provinces is good in mediteran. but that's not that important in 1500. There will be massive nasty event in mid 1550 due to war of religion. if you want to take those med islands, it is easiear after war of religion ended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

Playing France means rich provinces : fast teching up. So you don't need so much the morale bonus from Land. Going naval will give more colonists.
Quality : yes, it's best.
Offensive : later, it's best to go defensive, as it fastens your sieges (which tend to be pretty long otherwise by 1700). If you're not intent on going to wage many wars, you can go naval/defensive/quality/free-subjects, without much consequences, at least against the AI.
Centralization, Free Trade : I agree, but Centralization doesn't help stability.
Serfdom : no, go Free Subjects, stability is not a problem, and you'll get morale bonus (instead of penalty) and Prodution Efficiency bonus (instead of a penalty). The PE will be very important due to the colonies.
Aristocracy : go Plutocracy. Better PE and TE (trade efficiency). You don't need the DIP bonus if you're intent on playing peaceful. Economy is more important.
Innovative : innovative is only important in the early part, but after 1500 you need lots of colonists (and missionaries to early convert pagans). So go narrowminded (which will even decrease the stabcosts).

if you go naval, you get more colonist. but, will you have enough income without minting monies to use all of your colonist? i don't think so.

with all monthly monies go to tech to minimize inflation, you will probably can only do 3 colonization per year. that's assuming you get 400 ducats for census tax. don't forget that you have to save some monies to build minimal fort, tax colector, legal counsel, mayor, and some extremly expensive manufatory in your mother land. so going naval in my opinion is just useless.

i just look at my save game, i got +3 colonist with my DP slider per year. that's with max free trade, max land and shipyard bonus together with counter reform. Why counter reform? because it gives you +2 colonist. enough to offset not going to naval.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

This means waiting until 1700 (at least, and prolly much more, since IIRC the current record for earliest max out of trade and infra is 1736 - in previous patches, where it was even less costly). At this time, missionaries are near-useless, and you won't get as much income from the colonies built after that.

it is doable before 1700 (no cheating) . in fact managed to get lv 10 infra and trade in 1653. that's with manufactory in every france cores and owning 4 europian COT. paris, liguria, veneto, and danzig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

Going both land (-1) and innovative (-2) means you'll get, if catholic (+2), free-trader (+1) and with a shipyard (+1), only one colonist per year. That is, in a century, you'll manage to build only ten colonies.
Going naval (+2), narrowminded (+2), you'll get 8 colonists per years. You'll get much more income and benefits rather soon.

Like i said before, 8 is a little bit too much without minting monies. Also, colonizing for 300 years is soo damm bored. no offense. although i admit that by 1750, i only have 25 colonial cities, but i managed to conquered and convert as far as russian border (all med island were conquered too) and as far north as denmark border. (only bb points stop me at this point). i did not touch iberian and england because without portugal, spain and england colonizing, it's not that fun.

yes, it's expensive to convert. it takes like 1000 ducats and 94 months to do. i spent like 100 years from 1650 to 1750 to mass convert all other religion.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Well, hmmm. . . sheridan, sheridan, what am I doing wrong? It seems the harder I try to stay out of European issues, my allies drag me in and I can't seem to stay out of it. So tonight, Switerzland attacked and took Savoy long before she joined my alliance. So, here I am now stuck with Piedmont and not Savoy. So, I DoW'ed the Swiss and took that province. But I wasn't planning on it that way, didn't want the BB that came with it. Grrr.

Then, still minding my business to try and build another winery, Portugal up and attacks Castille and Aragon. Part of my mind was to let them duke it out while I stayed out of it and perhaps used my freedom to join Austria's alliance. But, I certainly didn't have a good feel for it, so I joined in. Well, I didn't really want Portugal to get hammered and there was still that issue of Aragon and Spain and all that. . .

So, I invaded Castille and Aragon. In the middle of this, I saw the message that Spain had formed, apparently without Aragon and then this message--"Spain chose no let us marry local talent." It sounded like they were saying no to Ferdinand. I mean, perhaps I'm misjudging the AI, but it sure seemed like if I did nothing, Castille was going to take it over anyway. Ah, too much inexperience on my part I guess.

Anyway, I took Spain's (Castille's) northern province and proceeded to take all of Aragon's Iberian provinces. I was in the process of invading Malta to try and get more from Aragon. I was hoping that I could conclude a peace treaty with Aragon BEFORE Portugal did and perhaps just take the closest province to me, perhaps Malta, but mostly thinking I could get that vassel thing. Yeah, well no. I guess I was going to need to take everything or something, but since I didn't start the war (you know where this is going, don't you), Portugal made a seperate peace with Aragon for me apparently. It was very weird (I actually reloaded to try again, and that time Portugal concluded with Spain as alliance leader), but in any case, Portugal handed me all 3 of the Med provinces. I mean, seriously, when I went in, I was thinking only to help Portugal, give her warscore points, maybe get that one province, but mostly thinking I might could get Aragon as vassel. Now, even though I never planned it, here I am in the Med.

Well, of course the war wasn't over with Spain (who apparently has little to no troops left). Long ago, Portugal had taken that very southern province (not Gibraltar) from someone, so Spain/Castille only had one other province on the Med, so I took it too. Then, not wanting to wait on Portugal, I concluded with Spain and so now, I own the entire Iberian Penesula Med coast whether I wanted it or not. I guess I'm going to have crazy rebellions all the time aren't I?

I don't know; I suppose its another example of the stupid AI. I mean, Portugal lost tons of leverage with Spain that way, though I guess she is thinking that she can take all or most of Spain. But I'm already seeing that the AI is goofy. At one point Portugal had one of Aragon's islands in siege, down to the yellow and then just up and leaves. Genoa tried to grab it (part of my alliance too), but Portugal concluded before she was done too.

Anyway, also seeing the stupid AI trick because Scotland came to help, bringing part of her navy and about 6000 troops down. Then, she declared war on England. WHAT IS THAT ABOUT? Sigh. So while we are dealing with Spain, we have to deal with England. Again, I thought I might as well blow off the alliance, but so far, I've not really figured that part out.

Oh, and my BB is now up to 19. Sigh. I really wanted to keep that low in teh 10s like sheridan counseled. Can I get a white peace with England even though she keeps attacking me? She wants me to pay her, even though she's been attacking me. Grrr....

And all I wanted to do was get my core provinces (Burgundy happened the normal way, so I got Bourggene (sp?) and cores on Artois and F-C, but sadly Austria got Luxembourg and Braben since Burgundy had annexed them. So now I got 2 Austrian provinces on my northern border. At least, for now, Austria likes me), play nice, raise my trade/infrastructure (you know you can't seem to do that if you have to spend money in the treasury for all these stupid wars) and go exploring. Before long, I'm going to have to take over all of Europe just to get some peace. LOL :rofl:

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #12
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
together with counter reform. Why counter reform? because it gives you +2 colonist.
So does plain Catholic. CRC will give you an extra missionary, but won't give you any bonus to colonization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
So, I invaded Castille and Aragon. In the middle of this, I saw the message that Spain had formed, apparently without Aragon and then this message--"Spain chose no let us marry local talent."
If you plan to vassalize Aragon, that's good news for you - that means that Spain chose the option where they do not get Aragon as a vassal (if they did, you wouldn't be able to vassalize them). That also means Spain will probably not be able to annex Aragon. And BTW, "local talent" is again one of those 5-percent-chance choices.
Quote:
I guess I'm going to have crazy rebellions all the time aren't I?
Not really. You will get the nationalism in these provinces, which means 3% revolt risk, going down by one point each 10 years. That means that there is about 46% chance you will get a revolt in any given province before nationalism fades down in 30 years.

Quote:
Some questions: OK, I know I need to read the FAQ on the COTs but is that really just a "dice roll" thing? One minute you are in, the next you are out. It seems possibly tied to stability, but I can't really tell.
It is tied to stability, your domestic policy settings, your trade efficiency vs that of other countries. And if you have a trade agreement, you're not supposed to compete with merchants of such a country (you sometimes do because of a bug). Other than that, it is random.

Quote:
Do the building of things like FAAs and Winerys just keep going up? I mean, I've only built the 2 FAAs that I told you about and 2 wineries,but already the cost for the next one is 1500.
The cost does go up, how much exactly - I'm just working on a formula. 1500d seems to be a little too much for a fifth manufactory. Either you have some inflation, or a bad monarch - it should go down by some 100-200d if you get a better monarch, and a refinery should be cheaper than FAA.

Quote:
I mean, that is like saving for 4 years and doing nothing else to get that much money.
Well, yes. Manufactory is a big investment.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
How much your stab cost ? will you recover with -3 random event within 1 to 2 year ? with your income in 1500, i doubt you will manage to recover 1 stab in about less than 10 month.

some island provinces is good in mediteran. but that's not that important in 1500. There will be massive nasty event in mid 1550 due to war of religion. if you want to take those med islands, it is easiear after war of religion ended.
You're forgetting the magic word : FAA. Moreover, you don't really need to recover stab faster than one-two years. It's just better if you can. Moreover, the 'natural state of stability' is 0/+1, not +3 (according to Johan and the AGCEEP-designers too). Stability is really unimportant, as long as you're religious-homogenous. And a France going south is religious-homogenous (she only needs to convert some state-culture reformed provinces).
Actually, the Wars of Religion are just a couple of revolts and province_revoltrisk in some provinces, all in France, and a little stabhit if you choose French Protestants or French Ultra Catholics. Nothing more, apart some DP-sliders moves. Owning italian and aragones provinces is a boon, to give you safe income in case the rebels are beating you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
if you go naval, you get more colonist. but, will you have enough income without minting monies to use all of your colonist? i don't think so.

with all monthly monies go to tech to minimize inflation, you will probably can only do 3 colonization per year. that's assuming you get 400 ducats for census tax. don't forget that you have to save some monies to build minimal fort, tax colector, legal counsel, mayor, and some extremly expensive manufatory in your mother land. so going naval in my opinion is just useless.
Money is no problem. Given you're expanding your economy, you may take a bit of inflation. But with governors, you can also mint 25% but suffer no inflation. It's not a problem for techs, given the inner-wealth of french (and italian and dutch) provinces : you're not gonna be late. You can easily fund the full 8 colonists every year, with no budget problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
i just look at my save game, i got +3 colonist with my DP slider per year. that's with max free trade, max land and shipyard bonus together with counter reform. Why counter reform? because it gives you +2 colonist. enough to offset not going to naval.
So does catholic and reformed : CRC is not about more colonists. CRC's prime advantage is morale and missionaries. But at the cost of a -10% trade income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
it is doable before 1700 (no cheating) . in fact managed to get lv 10 infra and trade in 1653. that's with manufactory in every france cores and owning 4 europian COT. paris, liguria, veneto, and danzig.
Then, go for the Record thread.
But IMO, it's not a great strategy. You paid dearly for all those refineries. And what do you get now ? a bit more TE. But you no longer get the prime benefit of manufactories : research bonus.
Want to check ? Search your trade income. Divide it by your TE, to find the income each refinery gives you. Compare it to the 60d investment you lost by maxing the tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi
Like i said before, 8 is a little bit too much without minting monies. Also, colonizing for 300 years is soo damm bored. no offense. although i admit that by 1750, i only have 25 colonial cities, but i managed to conquered and convert as far as russian border (all med island were conquered too) and as far north as denmark border. (only bb points stop me at this point). i did not touch iberian and england because without portugal, spain and england colonizing, it's not that fun.
Conquering provinces will earn you more BB than diplo-annexing them, or equal if you're waging defensive wars (which are pretty hard to get when you're powerful, except BB-Wars). I'd advise against that. And as I explained, funding 8 colonists is not a problem.
When you're France, 25 colonial cities are nothing. Even less than the total french-culture provinces in 1419. And poorer. With a lot more colonists, you can finish NA, India, and a select other regions (South Africa, Australia, Siberia, Indonesia - your choice), greatly expanding your economic basis.

__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Well, hmmm. . . sheridan, sheridan, what am I doing wrong? It seems the harder I try to stay out of European issues, my allies drag me in and I can't seem to stay out of it. I mean, should I consistently run around and not honor my alliances? If I say "I'm in" usually the other guys attack me even if I was planning on quietly sitting it out. I mean, I'm all ready to try and colonize and leave these wars to others, but its still just late 1400s, so what am I supposed to do?
The best solution, often, is to honor, then conclude a white peace after a couple of months. Early on, you may also want to raise war taxes (from August to December), to get a huge bonus at tax income for six months (and at census ), but not once production/trade amounts for half of your income.
Simply move one army to the threated border, and wait a few months. Often, you'll get an offer for white peace, especially if you crushed their troops while they were invading. Use the terrain (especially rivers) to get an advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I don't know; I suppose its another example of the stupid AI. I mean, Portugal lost tons of leverage with Spain that way, though I guess she is thinking that she can take all or most of Spain. But I'm already seeing that the AI is goofy. At one point Portugal had one of Aragon's islands in siege, down to the yellow and then just up and leaves. Genoa tried to grab it (part of my alliance too), but Portugal concluded before she was done too.
The AI will conclude peace as soon it gets a big warscore, even if it could have more by waiting a bit more. That's why AI sucks when compared to human players : no strategic planning. That's why humans always beat AI : you know when you can continue the fight, and when you need to bribe them out quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Anyway, also seeing the stupid AI trick because Scotland came to help, bringing part of her navy and about 6000 troops down. Then, she declared war on England. WHAT IS THAT ABOUT? Sigh. So while we are dealing with Spain, we have to deal with England. Again, I thought I might as well blow off the alliance, but so far, I've not really figured that part out.
An alliance with Scotland is nearly an insurance you'll get future wars with England. The best I could think, is a three-fold choice :
1) don't ally with Scotland
2) ally with Scotland AND England (after a force-vassalize, to remind them of their rightfull place )
3) endure such wars, and use them to conquer their colonies later (making sure to make peace yourself).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, and my BB is now up to 19. Sigh. I really wanted to keep that low in the 10s like sheridan counseled. Can I get a white peace with England even though she keeps attacking me? She wants me to pay her, even though she's been attacking me. Grrr....
A way to decrease BB is to release vassals. check if some of your provinces are useless (rather rare), and release them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And all I wanted to do was get my core provinces (Burgundy happened the normal way, so I got Bourggene (sp?) and cores on Artois and F-C, but sadly Austria got Luxembourg and Braben since Burgundy had annexed them. So now I got 2 Austrian provinces on my northern border. At least, for now, Austria likes me), play nice, raise my trade/infrastructure (you know you can't seem to do that if you have to spend money in the treasury for all these stupid wars) and go exploring. Before long, I'm going to have to take over all of Europe just to get some peace.
Don't make war yet with Austria. At least, not to get the left-bank of the Rhine, as you'll get cores on them in 1680 or so.
A good move would be to invite them in your alliance, along with Portugal, to ensure you won't get DoWed by them. It'll break the Habsburg encirclement, and give you a powerful ally in central europe. I like the force-vassalization, even without diplo-annexing them later : somehow, it decreases their aggresiveness (much to the relief of the german minors ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Some questions: OK, I know I need to read the FAQ on the COTs but is that really just a "dice roll" thing? One minute you are in, the next you are out. It seems possibly tied to stability, but I can't really tell.
The checks happen any time a new merchant comes to the CoT. The AI usually send them on the 1st of every month, so don't do the same (just a few days later is fine).

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

OK, various facts to get your help further at this point (1480s). Austria is in an alliance with Hungary, Croatia and someone else, but Hungary is the alliance leader (and she hates me, -175). I have Switzerland and Milan as vassels. I am in an alliance with Portugal, Scotland, Genoa and the German country on the German side of Alsace. I was playing, but didn't feel too sure of where I was going, so I hadn't saved, but then Genoa asked me to honor the alliance and attack Milan (who won't join the alliance).

QUESTION SERIES #13

robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
It just didn't seem clear to me.
First, you should have make Milan join your alliance if you didn't want all that to happen.
Second, I would probably refuse Genoa call to war and then rejoin the alliance.

Quote:
On the building front, exactly where does stability increase with a FAA? Everywhere or just in that one province?
There is no such thing as stability in a province. Stability is a global indicator of how stable your empire is. FAA will help you rebuild it if you go below +3.

Quote:
I know eventually I get to build arms type manufactories, so is there some limit to FAAs and breweries?
No limit, other of course that you can only build one factory per province.

Quote:
There's an event to "get" Genoa handed to me? in the 1490s? How often does that actually happen?
No such event that I know of.

Quote:
Once the revolt risk listed in the province screen drops to 0%, does that mean no revolts there?
Yes. Unless by a random event.

Quote:
What exactly does a monopoly do for me? Does that just mean I can get more money or does that close out others from trading there or what?
It means that you will get all empty slots - there are 20 slots in each CoT. If there are 10 foreign merchants and you have 5, then you will have 25% of that CoT's value. If you have 6 merchants (ie a monopoly), you will also get all 4 remaining empty slots, so you will have 50% of that CoT's value.
It doesn't close out the CoT for other countries - that's what embargo does.

Quote:
I'm about to get judges (infra 3). Do I do that everywhere or only in select places?
Depends how much cash you have and do you have better investment. I do it everywhere.

Quote:
So even though a place like England has a -200 relationship to me, I could just spend enough money, buy them up and then ally with them?
Yes, but it's hard to get a large country come up from -200.

Quote:
And if Scotland and England are both in my alliance, they won't fight each other?
Since they will be in the same alliance, no, they won't fight each other.
__________________
lawkeeper

Minor nitpicking, I agree on all else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
First, you should have make Milan join your alliance if you didn't want all that to happen.
Second, I would probably refuse Genoa call to war and then rejoin the alliance.
If you rejoin the alliance, you'll join the war. When you join an alliance, you enter in every war in which the alliance leader is involved. Since the only alliance members that remained in the alliance honored the call of Genoa, the new alliance leader is at war with Milan. But you get less stabhit doing so, even if it probably won't save Milan.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
If you rejoin the alliance, you'll join the war.
Not if no one honored the call to war, the alliance completely collapsed and you create it anew

But that is a nasty situation. I'm not sure what to do really - I try to avoid things like this.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Not if no one honored the call to war, the alliance completely collapsed and you create it anew But that is a nasty situation. I'm not sure what to do really - I try to avoid things like this.
Seconded. That's the main reason why it's more interesting to be the alliance leader when you have vassals. The problem arises when you have more than 4 vassals, though.

With France, you have to be very careful at the beginning. Your vassals have often the whim (and the will) to DoW anybody, but the other vassals frequently dishonor. And when they're out of the alliance, wars frequently erupts between your vassals - and you're caught in the middle.

In a game I played long time ago, I had force-vassalized nearly all the german minors in one decade's time. I resolved the problem by allying with no-one. Wars erupted, some vassals were annexed by others, but 20-30 years later, I allied each vassal one at a time, diplo-annexing him immediately. Nobody outside of my vassals took any province (I had warned all neighbours).

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #14
__________________
lawkeeper

Yipee, I get to answer first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Do I get a BB or stability hit if I just close out my alliance? I mean, what if I dropped everyone from my alliance or kicked Scotland out (since they've yet to ever help me since the England issue ended way back).
You especially need a CB on anyone you want to kick out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I tried over and over to get Milan into the alliance and they would never come, even with +175.
As a human player, you may get only 4 allies. So I guess you already have the 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
The deal with Genoa, someone else mentioned that back on page 4, which I re-read last night just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. It was some kind of encouragement to keep Piedmont since it put me closer to Genoa which I could get in some kind of event and then maybe move on into the other Italian provinces. Maybe they were wrong or I didn't understand. but that would be big to know because if I'm not going to get it, then I don't know that I want to stay there and fight about it, ensuring more BB hits.
You won't get anything to Genoa, only cores on Lombardia, Naples and Apulia. But taking the italian provinces is always advisable, if only to deprive Austria of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
By getting stuck with the Iberian stuff, I guess right now I have 3 or 4 cultures. Is that doing anything negative to my plans, such has holding back investments or such like that? I know sheridan's thoughts were to only have the core provinces, but as you know (if you've been reading along)--taking Flanders led to the rest of Netherlands, trying to take Savoy led to Piedmonte and Switzerland, getting the two southern French provinces led me to an alliance with Portugal which led to the Spanish invasion.
Cultures are not like religions, you won't have harder time because you have lots of different cultures. Only effects are monetary (-30% tax income), manpower, RR (a little, negligible), and on conversions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Funny how realistic that part all is---you don't really plan to do all of that, but one event leads to another. And then you find yourself drug into events or, because you made a previous choice, then it becomes important to sustain that choice leading you into another situation. Just like the original nations/ruling families.
It's the part of roleplay. Personnally, I never DoW without a CB (home rule). Except when some reasons justify it, but it's rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Well, the Genoa/Milan event wasn't saved. I had just come back from a break and after it started, I thought "I have no idea what to do here" so I quit and came here. So, assuming things were the same again, my options seem to be:
1. Drop Genoa from alliance and allow the Italians to do whatever they do, knowing Austria probably will get some or all of that land.
2. Try, try again to get Milan into alliance before Genoa does anything stupid.
3. Drop Swiss and Milan from vassel status, again letting the Italians/Swiss do whatever it is they are going to do, leaving me out of it.

3 is not easily doable, it'll cost you a lot of stability. If you already have 4 allies, 2 is impossible too. And 1 is definitely not at your advantage. I know you have Portugal, Scotland and Genoa as allies, do you have a fourth ? If so, I'd drop Scotland (which didn't help you much in previous wars) to get Milan.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
You especially need a CB on anyone you want to kick out.

WHY? So you are saying that I can or cannot do this? With a penalty or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
3 is not easily doable, it'll cost you a lot of stability. If you already have 4 allies, 2 is impossible too. And 1 is definitely not at your advantage. I know you have Portugal, Scotland and Genoa as allies, do you have a fourth ? If so, I'd drop Scotland (which didn't help you much in previous wars) to get Milan.

Yep, I have a fourth which I picked up back with I was dealing with people surrounding me. In fact, I'm not sure if it was Castille or England, but in any case, its a small German province directly east of Strassbourg. I was thinking of them as a buffer. So, back to my top answer--I can drop someone, anyone, but I must have a CB? Or I have to create one? OR there is some penalty on the issue?
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
WHY? So you are saying that I can or cannot do this? With a penalty or not?
You cannot do that unless you have a CB. I don't remember if you get a stabhit, but I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Yep, I have a fourth which I picked up back with I was dealing with people surrounding me. In fact, I'm not sure if it was Castille or England, but in any case, its a small German province directly east of Strassbourg. I was thinking of them as a buffer. So, back to my top answer--I can drop someone, anyone, but I must have a CB? Or I have to create one? OR there is some penalty on the issue?
Baden. It's a useful ally against Austria (until it get annexed).
Yes, you need a CB. You can also hope for one of them to dishonor when a war erupts (but it's dangerous).
Guarantee the independence of Milan. It could deter the AI to DoW it, but I don't know if it works for your allies. But even so, it has not a truly great effect.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
It was some kind of encouragement to keep Piedmont since it put me closer to Genoa
Well, if you plan on vassalizing and then diploannexing Genoa (which I really think you should because of a CoT), then you need a land border with them or else you won't be able to do it, so I would keep Piemonte.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Well, if you plan on vassalizing and then diploannexing Genoa (which I really think you should because of a CoT), then you need a land border with them or else you won't be able to do it, so I would keep Piemonte.

OK, but in my scenario presented above (and I know the AI might not do that next time), do I support Genoa or Milan? Genoa is in the alliance and has the CoT. Milan is the vassel, but not in the alliance. I think the only person in the alliance with a CB and me is Genoa, but I don't/can't drop them to merely pick up Milan. AAAHHHHH

So, basically I'm screwed. Where is Richelieu when I need him?

OK, I can do this. I'll let you know how it all works out.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, but in my scenario presented above (and I know the AI might not do that next time), do I support Genoa or Milan? Genoa is in the alliance and has the CoT. Milan is the vassel, but not in the alliance. I think the only person in the alliance with a CB and me is Genoa, but I don't/can't drop them to merely pick up Milan. AAAHHHHH

So, basically I'm screwed. Where is Richelieu when I need him?

OK, I can do this. I'll let you know how it all works out.
A way to do it. Diplo-vassalize Genoa ASAP. When they go for Milan, let them do, they'll probably annex them. Diplo-annex a stronger Genoa thirty years later, and release Milan as vassal to get the event with the cores if you want it.

And if possible, diplo-vassalize Baden, even if you don't plan to annex them later. Added income.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Ah the crazy life of a EU2 player--stayed up far, far, far too late last night as I got drug further and further in by wars, events, activities.

Various happenings and questions:
So Genoa had it out for Milan and I just decided to drop the alliance and go for it with Milan and the Swiss. Got a good break a few months later as Austria bailed on Hungary, so I got them in! Because of that, we all got into a war with Strassbourg and I decided "better me than Austria," so that is all mine (yes I did the annex and took the BB hit--I had gotten it back down to like 14, so this just put me back up to 19 where I seem to be hovering).

Diplo-annexed Switzerland, so now I have a common border with Austria, who was given Hungary, so is getting quite large in central Europe. Here's hoping I can keep them happy while I'm out there exploring.

But, befor that, I think, for once, I got out of control as I just became quite focused on Genoa (sorry sheridan); they kept embargoing me, started that lame war with Milan, grrr. . . . But in the end, I took Corsica from them and made them my vassel. I should have just let it go, but they kept ticking me off!

Current alliance is France, Austria, Portugal and Milan. I worked diligently to get England up to +200, but they have rebuffed my alliance request over 6 times. Is the AI just determined to do this alone? They are no one's vassel. They have no vassels or alliance. They did the RM. They even allowed military acceess (for my explorer). But no alliance.

Spain finally annexed Aragon and (I think) Navarre. I haven't tried to up my score with them. Something makes me think I'm going to have to fight them anyway, but, if I do raise my relations with them, can I assume no war from them even if no alliance? I don't know; I think they and Portugal will fight in the future. Do I want to get involved in this or just let Portugal hang out to dry?

QUESTION SERIES #15
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
they kept embargoing me
Don't let that happen. Have a trade agreement with CoT owners that might embargo you - you lose 1 point in trade efficiency, but that's probably less than whatever you lose by not being able to trade in their centers (that's particularly true for countries that have several CoTs, like Spain or Portugal).

Quote:
I worked diligently to get England up to +200, but they have rebuffed my alliance request over 6 times. Is the AI just determined to do this alone? They are no one's vassel. They have no vassels or alliance. They did the RM. They even allowed military acceess (for my explorer). But no alliance.
How many members in your alliance? If you have four or more, not other country will join you.
Other than that, England will supposedly look not only at relations with you, but also with other members of your alliance, but I don't really know what the exact mechanism of accepting/rejecting alliance offer is.

Quote:
if I raise my relations with them, can I assume no war from them even if no alliance?
No. That should decrease the probability they will attack you, but it's not a guarantee. Especially if they are allied to your enemies and just choose to honor the alliance.

Quote:
So, to get the negative -% on inflation for governors, does it have to be in every province?
No. Each governor will contribure to the decrease in inflation. If you have one in every city, they will decrease it by 0.25 each year. If you have fewer, their effect will be proportionately lower (so if you have one in every fifth province, they will decrease inflation by 0.05 each year). edit 1.08--THIS IS CORRECT FOR 1.08!

Quote:
I've had 2 manufactories burn down. Is that just more bad luck or is that normal?
Bad luck.
If you are larger than 30 provinces, you can get a random event that will burn down your manufactory. Getting two of these in a short period is bad luck.

Quote:
Am I sending traders or colonists? Does one have to come before the other?
Traders are cheaper, but if you want a colony to develop into the city, you have to send colonists. Use traders if you want to earmark the province for you. And no, you don't have send one before the other.

Quote:
If another country already has a trading post, can I do something there?
If you are at war with them, you can march in and burn it - it then returns to the uncolonised status.

Quote:
is there any certain number of ships that I should send with an explorer?
Three ships is said to deal with attrition most efficiently.

Quote:
Am I correct to assume that in sending a conquistador, that I'll need to send troops with him?
He comes with some troops by himself, but yes, usually it's best to equip him with some cavalry and lose the infantry - he will move faster and he'll be able to find some hostile natives he's bound to encounter.

Quote:
Are they fighting people or just wandering around, finding new places?
They are like any other troops of yours, except that they have the ability to discover provinces (and some other bonuses, too) - so you will not be able to enter foreign provinces unless at war (or with military access, or if they are your vassal).
__________________
lawkeeper
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Current alliance is France, Austria, Portugal and Milan. I worked diligently to get England up to +200, but they have rebuffed my alliance request over 6 times. Is the AI just determined to do this alone? They are no one's vassel. They have no vassels or alliance. They did the RM. They even allowed military acceess (for my explorer). But no alliance.
In your place, I'd ally with Genoa, to avoid having the same problem you've had with Milan earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Spain finally annexed Aragon and (I think) Navarre. I haven't tried to up my score with them. Something makes me think I'm going to have to fight them anyway, but, if I do raise my relations with them, can I assume no war from them even if no alliance? I don't know; I think they and Portugal will fight in the future. Do I want to get involved in this or just let Portugal hang out to dry?
Use this war at your advantage. Burn their TPs, make the natives revolt, and try to grab a couple of colonies/colonial cities in the peace. And march to Madrid, siege it and get it, to receive their maps without having to give yours (and you'll also get the maps of unsettled provinces).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And here we are, finally, at the start of the sheridan strategy of North American colonization. How exactly does that work? I've read the FAQs, but I can't seem to make sense of it. Am I sending traders or colonists? Does one have to come before the other? I was near one place, somehow clicked a button and all of a sudden I was being asked if I wanted to send a colonist or a trader? It was very confusing. When I've clicked the colonists button before, it's said something like "click on a green province," yet when I tried that with my early seaching, it kept saying I could not do it.
If you put a TP before a colony, it'll slightly improve your chances of colonizing the province. But otherwise, colonize the coasts first. You could also put a series of lvl 3 TPs in the furs and tobaccos provinces (much trade will be sent to the CoTs).
As soon as you get a CB on a pagan, use it and annex them - then convert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
If another country already has a trading post, can I do something there? Should I just leave it alone?
If at peace, you can ask a military access and send a small army. Attack the natives, and retreat immediately. The natives will burn the TP. The same can be done with colonies, but it requires several attempts to completely destroy the colony. Have a colonist/trader ready to be sent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Exploring---is there any certain number of ships that I should send with them? Am I correct to assume that in sending a conquistador, that I'll need to send troops with him? Are they fighting people or just wandering around, finding new places?
Use your explorers solely to explore new sea zones. Let the coastal provinces to ordinary fleets, when you'll get naval tech 18.