Government Reforms won't be a DLC feature anymore

[Piotrzeci]

We already saw this happen with estates and development for exactly the same reasons

As I said few times, I don't see it as the same situation. With both Estates and Development it was that the feature could very well be just a part of the DLC. I imagine that when they were added there were no plans to develop these features further; people with Common Sense can Develop land, people with Cossacks have access to Estates. Then over time with new ideas came the thought to incorporate a new feature using these systems; boostable institutions and new estates. The decision is made that it will benefit future development, if it is a free feature and they are added.
Then you have Government Reforms which clearly will need to be developed further. Every time there is a new government this has to be tackled. There is no way nobody thought it was a system worth having in the base game. It's not something that later turns out to be a good feature to introduce for everybody, it's immediately clear that's what it is.

We don't have a situation where a feature was supposed to be a DLC feature that later becomes free for better development of the game,
it's a feature that was supposed to be out of DLC that was thrown into a paid content.

They are "fixing a mistake", but a mistake that increased the value of a DLC. It's definitely worth calling it out, that it shouldn't be seen as a good thing.

 

[mruuh]

So, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't? Sheesh, with customers such as you, who needs enemies?

Barring an invention of a time machine, there is no way to fix this mistake cleanly. Let's just forgive them, be glad that they are fixing it, and look forward to future development of the game that this fix enables.

 

[makaramus]

As I said few times, I don't see it as the same situation. With both Estates and Development it was that the feature could very well be just a part of the DLC. I imagine that when they were added there were no plans to develop these features further; people with Common Sense can Develop land, people with Cossacks have access to Estates. Then over time with new ideas came the thought to incorporate a new feature using these systems; boostable institutions and new estates. The decision is made that it will benefit future development, if it is a free feature and they are added.
Then you have Government Reforms which clearly will need to be developed further. Every time there is a new government this has to be tackled. There is no way nobody thought it was a system worth having in the base game. It's not something that later turns out to be a good feature to introduce for everybody, it's immediately clear that's what it is.

We don't have a situation where a feature was supposed to be a DLC feature that later becomes free for better development of the game,
it's a feature that was supposed to be out of DLC that was thrown into a paid content.

They are "fixing a mistake", but a mistake that increased the value of a DLC. It's definitely worth calling it out, that it shouldn't be seen as a good thing.

despite I like old things being free I have to agree with this one... this is not "oh we are doing this because we feel like this should be free" they doing this "we are doing this because not doing so is being even more expensive than ignoring it."
this is a bad thing no doubt... I choose to not be mad but supporting such a thing is a mistake too since its not "for customers".
I am not saying it doesnt benefit us... it does clearly and no doubt and I am happy for paradox doing it... just saying we should not celebrate them for fixing a mistake... since it was what meant to be at begining and it was us customers that paid price for that mistake and not paradox.
I just hope paradox learnt from this mistake and do not repeat again because if everything gonna be free next year why would I buy it? (I mean... I am ok with waiting... if its 5 years sure I will buy it now but 1 year? pfff... I got maybe 30 more years according to overall dying age I can wait and do someting else while waiting.
and I am not writing this out of anger but logic

 

[TheChrisD]

So... Dharma's going to be made cheaper to purchase new to compensate... right?

 

[iClipse]

"I bought a new car two years ago for 20k USD. Now there is a new model and my model is now selling for 15k USD. I demand a refund of 5K USD!"

Sounds ridiculous, right?

 

[Less2]

But it was to be expected. It can't be that only recently they realized it's an issue for coding, because it's literally what people would say the moment Reforms were announced as a DLC feature, that it will be a pain to maintain and not a good decision.

EU4 did just change leadership hands, presumably the new leadership has different priorities than the old one.

 

[makaramus]

"I bought a new car two years ago for 20k USD. Now there is a new model and my model is now selling for 15k USD. I demand a refund of 5K USD!"

Sounds ridiculous, right?

except this one is diffrent
this is not a marketing strategy or "new player friendly" decision
this is "yea... turns out devolping 2 independant systems that doing same things is more expensive than we should make from selling a single expansion so... we are just gonna get rid of old one and make dlc feature free..." thing...

 

[Vaximillian]

Dharma buyers have had almost a year and a half to play with their “exclusive” feature. It has already paid for itself.

 

[Zephyrum]

Dharma buyers have had almost a year and a half to play with their “exclusive” feature. It has already paid for itself.

It would have, if the feature was remotely fun or interesting. Or good to mod with.

Then again, it's not any of those because it's a DLC-locked content. It was a good decision to move it into the base game, but it's stupid that it took this long for it to happen. Should've come out free.

Personally, it's not bringing back any goodwill from me, it was still a mistake, it's just one less thing to complain about. But hey, hopefully modders will make use of it to make the good content that hasn't been delivered in a while.

 

[iClipse]

except this one is diffrent
this is not a marketing strategy or "new player friendly" decision
this is "yea... turns out devolping 2 independant systems that doing same things is more expensive than we should make from selling a single expansion so... we are just gonna get rid of old one and make dlc feature free..." thing...

And how is this different from adding changing development into the base game? Why weren't you up in arms about that?

 

[Johan]

It was removed because I personally thought it was way too limiting to work with from a design stand point.

And considering the cost that was done originally to support two systems, it should never have been made paid in the first place if i had been the GD.

 

[covya]

It was removed because I personally thought it was way too limiting to work with from a design stand point.

And considering the cost that was done originally to support two systems, it should never have been made paid in the first place if i had been the GD.

I too thought it was ironic that in the same patch they decided to make estates free because it was too limiting having them be an expansion feature was the same patch in which they added a system which fundamentally changes governments, then decided to make it an expansion feature again...

 

[szmik]

I assume the price of DLCs containing features moved to base game will be reduced accordingly

 

[Amtep]

I assume the price of DLCs containing features moved to base game will be reduced accordingly

And the price of the base game raised by the same amount, I presume?

 

[MinhowMinhow]

Well, not saying that I am feeling cheated or scammed, because when I bought Dharma I knew that they would make government reforms free. Not wanting my money back or complaining, because I bought at 50% discount. But Dharma is a horrible DLC, government reforms were the best feature of it, and isn't a so good feature. So let's see the Dharma general features:

- Government reforms: Not a Dharma feature anymore, but in general isn't great because is lacking generic reforms, almost of them are unique for one or other nation, thankfully this is being changed a bit. For generic reforms I am refering to old governments like Administrative, Constitutional Monarchies/Republics, Enlightned Despotism, Bureaucratic Despotism. These were removed with the DLC, but is silly ending the game in 1444 and your country is still a feudal monarchy. These should be available with technology, with decisions to enact them (to avoid corruption).

- Scornful Insults: They are funny, but not game changing.

- Upgradable CoTs: best general feature in my opinion of this DLC. Trade posts from MR should be upgradable too, this was a nerf to MR in some sense.

- Autonomous rebel supression: never had an oportunity to use. Or I need to lower army maintenance or I already have bonuses that lower unrest/autonomy.

- Trade company investiments: they are very expensive, is much better just expand into trade companies and assign the provinces. Is being buffed next patch, but I rarely found a use.

- Settlement growth: isn't good. Is random based, so is possible to get +1 random dev in 1 year or in 100 years. If it was like missionary chance, that a 2%/month means that in 50 months a province will be converted, that would be much better.

In my opinion in general features, Golden Century is much better than Dharma.

For an Immersion pack this DLC is good. Hope next DLCs be more like RoM, as a real expansion, instead of CoC and Dharma, that are Immersion packs with general buffs to force you to buy.

 

[Cancerofthehead]

I assume the price of DLCs containing features moved to base game will be reduced accordingly

They are still charging full price Conquest of Paradise, which is bad enough that they apparently believe new players shouldn’t even have access to it.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

- Autonomous rebel supression: never had an oportunity to use. Or I need to lower army maintenance or I already have bonuses that lower unrest/autonomy.

Auto rebel suppression is gorram amazing, not only do your troops automatically attack rebels that pop up, but the reduced unrest from friendly troops is spread between the provinces they're assigned to.

- Trade company investiments: they are very expensive, is much better just expand into trade companies and assign the provinces. Is being buffed next patch, but I rarely found a use.

There are great, not only do they give you more cash, but Army Tradition gain, Naval Tradition gain and stacking ship cost reduction.

 

[Cancerofthehead]

Well, not saying that I am feeling cheated or scammed, because when I bought Dharma I knew that they would make government reforms free. Not wanting my money back or complaining, because I bought at 50% discount. But Dharma is a horrible DLC, government reforms were the best feature of it, and isn't a so good feature. So let's see the Dharma general features:

- Government reforms: Not a Dharma feature anymore, but in general isn't great because is lacking generic reforms, almost of them are unique for one or other nation, thankfully this is being changed a bit. For generic reforms I am refering to old governments like Administrative, Constitutional Monarchies/Republics, Enlightned Despotism, Bureaucratic Despotism. These were removed with the DLC, but is silly ending the game in 1444 and your country is still a feudal monarchy. These should be available with technology, with decisions to enact them (to avoid corruption).

- Scornful Insults: They are funny, but not game changing.

- Upgradable CoTs: best general feature in my opinion of this DLC. Trade posts from MR should be upgradable too, this was a nerf to MR in some sense.

- Autonomous rebel supression: never had an oportunity to use. Or I need to lower army maintenance or I already have bonuses that lower unrest/autonomy.

- Trade company investiments: they are very expensive, is much better just expand into trade companies and assign the provinces. Is being buffed next patch, but I rarely found a use.

- Settlement growth: isn't good. Is random based, so is possible to get +1 random dev in 1 year or in 100 years. If it was like missionary chance, that a 2%/month means that in 50 months a province will be converted, that would be much better.

In my opinion in general features, Golden Century is much better than Dharma.

For an Immersion pack this DLC is good. Hope next DLCs be more like RoM, as a real expansion, instead of CoC and Dharma, that are Immersion packs with general buffs to force you to buy.

Trade Company investments (well some of them)?are extremely good. They easily pay for themselves. Once I have trade companies they are priorities to invest in.

Scornful insults are very useful. Not game breaking, but an extra 10 PP is good if you aren’t in a good spot for rivals and can put you over the top on relations needed to get a vassal.

Autonomous rebel suppression is so nice. The only thing I want is the ability to assign to larger areas than states as it can take a lot of clicks to cover a substantial empire.

The Indian estates (which I believed are still behind the DLC) are also really good.

I don’t think the settlement growth is supposed to be good. Just something you can do with your colonist once you can’t colonize any more.

 

[CountKino]

Everybody except the people who bought Dharma, because it had Government Reforms (which I think is quite a large portion of players with Dharma)

Obviously we will never know this, but I would be surprised if a particularly large number of people just bought Dharma for the reforms. You certainly can't make that judgement and use it as part of any argument at least.

 

[Sharples88]

And the price of the base game raised by the same amount, I presume?

I can't imagine they would increase it more when the base game is very expensive. Six years and the price is still at £35.00.