Government Reforms won't be a DLC feature anymore

[Piotrzeci]

On his Twitter Johan announced that the system of Government Reforms will now be in the base game and not exclusive to Dharma.

As it should always be
The system never should've been part of a DLC. It made no sense to be exclusive to an Indian expansion and what's more important; it causes major problems for future development of the game, because there are now two systems that both need supporting and play into a lot of other mechanics as every nation has a government. It shouldn't be in a DLC, but it was and that was the decision the Devs made. It was decided, that there will be two different systems to support to put a feature into a DLC.

Better Dharma sales
I am one of the people who hasn't bought Dharma, it wasn't interesting enough and I wasn't going to pay for artificially put there Government Reforms, but I know many people have. Government Reforms being an exclusive mechanic to the DLC certainly increased it's value and made more people buy it, it's one of the biggest features of it after all.

Reason and consequences
Without Government Reforms Dharma is kind of empty, but it has Government Reforms, which certainly made it more appealing. The consequence of locking this feature away and adding content into Dharma however is more work in the long run. The game from then has to have to systems supported and that's the price for better sale figures.

Adding it as a free feature
On paper everybody is happy; Devs don't have to support two systems anymore, people who bought Dharma have government reforms and people who didn't have a free update. Everybody except the people who bought Dharma, because it had Government Reforms (which I think is quite a large portion of players with Dharma); they were tricked into buying the DLC. These people believed this is the only way to get the mechanic and (perhaps) spent money on a DLC they wouldn't otherwise buy. The value of the DLC was artificially raised.

Again it wasn't a totally a wrong decision to have it DLC exclusive
While it causes problems and isn't a very good-will kind of thing, keeping Reforms to Dharma was understandable. For the DLC value, but it had the cost; two systems to support and no lying that "Dharma is the only way to get Reforms".

But it was just a cash grab
There was no intention to keep this promise and the mechanic was there purely for the sake of selling the DLC, while it shouldn't be there and wasn't going to stay. Simple way to sell less for more and not have to deal with any consequences.

It's different than Estates
Estates were added at some point, long after the release and due to their nature, could very well remain a DLC feature.
Government Reforms had an obvious potential for future development, but was placed in a DLC despite that. It plays with so many other systems that it couldn't possibly be thought to be a feature that will be paid, until it was decided to be like that.
Estates and Governemnt Reforms both sold their DLCs and became free, but Government Reforms shouldn't be in a DLC in the first place.

Conclusion
It was a cash grab, an unhealthy way of selling a product. They definitely lost some of the good-will when Reforms were announced to be only in Dharma, but now they've lost even more.

 

[Badesumofu]

Oh nonsense. It was a mistake to put it in the expansion and now Johan is back, they are rectifying it. They’ll gain far more good will than they will lose from this change.

 

[randomgamer71]

Good, I hope that now they make something good with it, because from what I know of it (I don't own Dharma) it doesn't seems such a big mechanic. Wait X years, push a button, get a bonus. Rinse and repeat. Or I am missing something?

 

[Piotrzeci]

Oh nonsense. It was a mistake to put it in the expansion and now Johan is back, they are rectifying it. They’ll gain far more good will than they will lose from this change.

And that's the saddest part. People will be happy that they were lied to.

The feature wasn't a mechanic that should be in a DLC
It was put there to increase the value
Once the best time for selling passed it's made free.
Be grateful.

 

[Piotrzeci]

Yepp

Also it's not like it was decided now. By that time Johan's "I'm back!" wasn't out yet.

Since it's now teased, we can say it was announced back then as a mistake. And it was pretty convenient; there was Christmas, Lunar sale, New Year sale and Humble Bundle in the meantime.

 

[Borgratz]

I find it very hard to get mad at paradox for making good decisions.

I already called them out for their horrible dlc policy (compared to ie. Stellaris) when dharma launched. I will yell at them again (and not but their dlc) if they put new systems like this into dlc. For now all they deserve is a polite pat on the back and we will see how good the rest of the expansion is.

Otherwise what's the incentive to improve if people yell at them eternally, anyways.

 

[Blk82]

They have given away DLC mechanics before. Their EUIV DLC policy basically forces that after so many DLC's. Regardless of the company's dev strategy, after so many DLC's, at some point, adding mechanics is going to paint oneself into a corner. (The only way around that is to pre-plan the DLCs all 20-odd DLCs in advance, which the most perfidious DLC possible.) The people who buy DLC right when it comes out know that they are paying a premium for it.

 

[Piotrzeci]

They have given away DLC mechanics before. Their EUIV DLC policy basically forces that after so many DLC's. Regardless of the company's dev strategy, after so many DLC's, at some point, adding mechanics is going to paint oneself into a corner. (The only way around that is to pre-plan the DLCs all 20-odd DLCs in advance, which the most perfidious DLC possible.) The people who buy DLC right when it comes out know that they are paying a premium for it.

If the policy was to add parts of old DLCs into the base game I would be very much for it. It makes a lot of sense to take some things that are locked behind expansions that were long out and don't sell anymore and ensure a better cohesion in players' games by reducing the number of possible expansion combinations.
But it's not EU4's policy. For example Conquest of Paradise is still required for supporting independence, a lot of UI things like (+) to recruit one more unit and merge it to the army is in a DLC. There are plenty of small features locked behind old DLCs. They really do add expansion things into the base game rather rarely.

 

[makaramus]

ok I will be honest I promote when devolpers make stuff free part of game
but... yea this time I feel cheated
I am not gonna be aganist it... I bought it back then and it was a worthy deal
but... I do feel cheated I JUST CANT HELP IT XD
and thats despite I think I might still bought expansion for other stuff in expansion like better center of trades and policy features or even just for better mughals and indians
BUT.... I FEEL CHEATED because it was most important thing for me
Again... I know envy is a sin and I will keep it to myself... thats just what I think Man cant control his feelings after all

BUT: I will also not celebrate paradox for this since its obviously to make relasing new dlcs cheaper by not devolping 2 seperate mechanics at the same time for people not bought dlc...

 

[deckhand]

If the policy was to add parts of old DLCs into the base game I would be very much for it. It makes a lot of sense to take some things that are locked behind expansions that were long out and don't sell anymore and ensure a better cohesion in players' games by reducing the number of possible expansion combinations.
But it's not EU4's policy. ...

It should be their policy. (and it is in practice)
Not to fold all DLC content into the base game, but at their discretion to add DLC content to the base game in the future. Buyer Beware.

Dharma buyers have had since September 2018 to enjoy their purchase. DLC buyers of features that are later added into the base game, essentially paid for early access.

 

[Less2]

I have a feeling that maintaining two separate ways of handling government in events and game code turned out to be a development nightmare. Its not something small like having innovativeness modifiers switched out for something else is, government type is referenced basically everywhere and keeping everything consistent with both systems would take a ton of effort.

 

[Piotrzeci]

I have a feeling that maintaining two separate ways of handling government in events and game code turned out to be a development nightmare. Its not something small like having innovativeness modifiers switched out for something else is, government type is referenced basically everywhere and keeping everything consistent with both systems would take a ton of effort.

But it was to be expected. It can't be that only recently they realized it's an issue for coding, because it's literally what people would say the moment Reforms were announced as a DLC feature, that it will be a pain to maintain and not a good decision.

 

[Twoflower]

The original decision to make government reforms DLC locked was fundamentally flawed. Especially in light of how the devs were (rightfully) criticized for doing this with estates and generally in light of how people were questioning the DLC policy at that point, they should have known better.
The thing is, they didn't, and now they have made that mistake right.
Accusing them of sinister motives and intentional moneygrabbing just seems malicious and paranoid. Yes, they have to make hard decisions on what to put behind a DLC wall when designing patches/expansions, and, yes, making the DLC attractive enough for people to actually want to buy it certainly is an aspect in that decision process, but shouldn't we assume an honest mistake?

And btw, it is a great decision to include government reforms in the base game

 

[raikaria]

The question becomes what is going to be added to Dharma to replace this [major!] feature being removed. When features are removed from DLC paradox usually adds something else.

I assume the Indian-unique reforms will also still be Dharma-exclusive.

Also woe betide that a game dev produces some paid DLC to fund continued game developmet of a 5 year old game; which also gets free updates <.<

 

[EquilinT]

as a Dharma buyer i just need a discount ticket for the removed (major) feature as compensation (i will be using it on the new expac anyways).

 

[Piotrzeci]

The question becomes what is going to be added to Dharma to replace this [major!] feature being removed. When features are removed from DLC paradox usually adds something else.

I assume the Indian-unique reforms will also still be Dharma-exclusive.

Also woe betide that a game dev produces some paid DLC to fund continued game developmet of a 5 year old game; which also gets free updates <.<

Indian reforms are still Dharma exclusive, it's just the system that becomes free, but I don't think there is a plan to add anything as replacement.

 

[greg70]

Nice

 

[regne_valencia]

Same happened with common sense and provinces develop

 

[Jernau_]

Everybody except the people who bought Dharma, because it had Government Reforms (which I think is quite a large portion of players with Dharma); they were tricked into buying the DLC. These people believed this is the only way to get the mechanic and (perhaps) spent money on a DLC they wouldn't otherwise buy. The value of the DLC was artificially raised.

I bought dharma and dont care if parts of it is made free. As usual some people are just desperately searching for something to whine about.

If its that hard to accept that older stuff is put on sale or given away then stick to playing 10 year old games.

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

I don't have Dharma but i can see why it would make sense now as opposed to when Dharma is being released, mainly because of the amount of diverse options of polcies (like the entire pirate tree with Golden Century) that can be DLC exclusive or driven by player choices as laid out in the recently published large balance change devlog that also helps give them some ideas where to push DLC forward rather than the limited scope at the time as almost a proof of concept.

A basic set of reforms to familiarize myself with (and make my mind up whether i like it or not at a later date) is a welcome change, even if the DLC's clear superiority over the others was a bit wolfish at the time. We already saw this happen with estates and development for exactly the same reasons, so it would help if they were less opaque in saying:

• Look here's a feature we're working on in this premium DLC that will help define the future of our content plans, almost like pre-access to the finished product a few months down the line we'll release for free