....Got stomped as France. Need tips. This is sad.

[MiniaAr]

That's the fun of it.

Pick unorthodox strategies for certain countries. Wouldn't be the first time I'd play a Portugal game where I ignored colonization and blobbed the entire Iberian peninsula and the Mediterranean for Genoa trade node before I got bored.

If I wanted to blob as France I'd just focus on mil and diplo and eat up the HRE, but that's no fun for me right now. I want colonization as France, make Floride and French Canada. See if I can get a French Indian trade route going.

L'etat ces't moi!

I like the way you're thinking. Colonial France all the way. But still, you'll need some wars to get what's righfully yours, namely Flanders, Hainaut, Luxembourg, Lorraine, Alsace, the whole of Savoy, Genoa, Roussillon, Milan and possibly Naples if you get the claims. Afterwards (should be wrapped up in the first 50 years), it's time to go take colonies from pesky Iberians and Anglois.

Honestly, don't make French Floride, a proper name for a French Thirteen colonies is Acadia (Acadie), as this was the name given to the region from North Virginia to the Maritimes by its discoverer, Giovanni da Verrazzano.

Spoiler

The origin of the designation Acadia is credited to the explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano, who on his 16th century map applied the ancient Greek name "Arcadia" to the entire Atlantic coast north of Virginia (note the inclusion of the 'r' of the original Greek name). "Arcadia" derives from the Arcadia district in Greece which since Classical antiquity had the extended meanings of "refuge" or "idyllic place". The Dictionary of Canadian Biography says: "Arcadia, the name Verrazzano gave to Maryland or Virginia 'on account of the beauty of the trees,' made its first cartographical appearance in the 1548 Gastaldo map and is the only name on that map to survive in Canadian usage."

 

[unmerged(88013)]

Got a lot of hours into this game, usually like playing the underdogs. But this time I wanted to play France with the intent of colonizing.

If you really want to get a head start:
1. Take a single north African province, preferably low base tax, and the closer to the Atlantic the better.
2. Conquer Castile's Canary island. Portugal's Madeira works too. Ideally you want to take them all at some point to block them both from colonising.
3. Colonise Cape Verde, then Rio de Oro. Continuing to Brazil once Cape Verde has been cored, then on to Caribbean and so forth.
4. Conquer Sus from Morocco, and Bambuk, Bure, and Kumasi from Mali. Gold will fund your colonising. Don't forget to build workshops in them too.
5. Set your merchants to collect in Mauritania and other new world trade nodes as soon as you have a colony there.
Ideas: Exploration->Expansion->Trade->Military...

Now you're rich and you've blocked the first two main colonisers, leaving you to take the coastlines

Aragorn wants an alliance? Well... okay I guess. Probably my second mistake.

Europa Universalis Middle Earth?

Seriously France doesn't need alliances, it's a vassal powerhouse. With Expansion's ideas, you should have 8 vassals at anyone time. Who needs unreliable allies when you have vassals from which loyalty is guaranteed, income can be earned, and forcelimits increased.

Before you unpause, I'd suggest cancelling the guarantee on Scotland, and allying with Navarra. If you're quick to improve relations, offer access, guarantee, and gift, you can beat Castile to vassalising it. That will then give you 6 vassals in total. It's also the best way to expand into the empire

Meanwhile, I turn my heads towards Provence, whom allied itself with Hungary and Savoy. Sure, I can take them on. Fabricate a claim on Savoy as well so I can get something out of them since we're gonna go to war anyway.
Declare war on Provence, Reconquest of Maine and Anjou. Hungary never comes to the rescue, why? Personal union under Austria.

Wipe the board, take Savoie, Anjou, Maine AND Provence. Coalition formed, Burgundy, Austria, Tuscany Siena.

Wait a couple of years, coalition is gone, eyeing Brittany, whom allied themselves with England. Not much of an issue, I prepare my troops, raise maintenance AND...

Be careful annexing provinces by conquest in the HRE. Everyone will hate you. Just make sure not to let your manpower get too low. Enemies will see that as weakness. Use mercenaries to supplement your troops; If it causes you to run at a deficit, raise war taxes, though don't get too click happy, you want to stay ahead in military tech if you can.

 

[Katakakes]

If you really want to get a head start:
1. Take a single north African province, preferably low base tax, and the closer to the Atlantic the better.
2. Conquer Castile's Canary island. Portugal's Madeira works too. Ideally you want to take them all at some point to block them both from colonising.
3. Colonise Cape Verde, then Rio de Oro. Continuing to Brazil once Cape Verde has been cored, then on to Caribbean and so forth.
4. Conquer Sus from Morocco, and Bambuk, Bure, and Kumasi from Mali. Gold will fund your colonising. Don't forget to build workshops in them too.
5. Set your merchants to collect in Mauritania and other new world trade nodes as soon as you have a colony there.
Ideas: Exploration->Expansion->Trade->Military...

Now you're rich and you've blocked the first two main colonisers, leaving you to take the coastlines


Europa Universalis Middle Earth?

Seriously France doesn't need alliances, it's a vassal powerhouse. With Expansion's ideas, you should have 8 vassals at anyone time. Who needs unreliable allies when you have vassals from which loyalty is guaranteed, income can be earned, and forcelimits increased.

Before you unpause, I'd suggest cancelling the guarantee on Scotland, and allying with Navarra. If you're quick to improve relations, offer access, guarantee, and gift, you can beat Castile to vassalising it. That will then give you 6 vassals in total. It's also the best way to expand into the empire


Be careful annexing provinces by conquest in the HRE. Everyone will hate you. Just make sure not to let your manpower get too low. Enemies will see that as weakness. Use mercenaries to supplement your troops; If it causes you to run at a deficit, raise war taxes, though don't get too click happy, you want to stay ahead in military tech if you can.

All great tips!

Although I don't think I'll ever have to worry about manpower. I feel like Russia in Europe.

 

[unmerged(88013)]

All great tips!
Although I don't think I'll ever have to worry about manpower. I feel like Russia in Europe.

It's very easy to drain your manpower early on even as France. And it takes a long time for it to recover. Mercenaries are your friend.

 

[ceteris.paribus]

Cosmopolitaine Mexico!

 

[JStrayer]

Take out loans, buy Castille out of the War, beat Burgundy, force release vassals.

 

[Morwys]

• Aragorn wants an alliance? Well... okay I guess. Probably my second mistake.

This is never a mistake. Aragorn, as the king of both Gondor and Arnor, is a somewhat strong ally. His legitimacy is a bit shaken at first, but he'll eventually recuperate.

:laugh:

Couple of months pass, I lose more battles, win a big one, check the ledger as I thought, they're winning but my manpower is much higher AND.... EUIV crashes.

This is happening with alarming frequency in my games. I'm thinking that my internet connection is to blame, since I always play Ironman, but I don't know. I'll start a few normal games, just to check.

Anyway, if you read all the way down here... any tips on playing France if you want to colonize? I can't rely on the king of Burgundy dying in all of my games.

I just recently started a new game with France, my second one with them - my first one was a colonial one. Here's what I think:

• Take Diplomacy first. Period. It doesn't matter what's your end game, for the first decades of the game, diplomacy is essential. They allow you to consolidate your lands faster. The first 3 ideas of the tree are of particular usefulness. I usually save up on dip points to take those first 3 right out of the bat. More diplomats and more diplomatic relations make expanding considerably faster; for example, you can have up to 6 or 7 vassals by 1470 or 1480 with Diplomacy. Also, less time to fabricate claims are just great to expand towards Britanny and Provence before they ally themselves with some other GP.
• Attack them when they're weak. This is specially true regarding Burgundy. Their tendency to ally themselves with Castile can easily put you on a costly double front war; so, since you have a perma claim on them because they hold Picardie, save it until they enter a war with someone stronger. Hopefully, Austria will stomp them when they go for Liege and, regardless if they won or lost, attack them while their manpower is low. This applies to Provence as well; as a member of the HRE, they can drag you into a horrible war for a measly province; fabricate on them while idle and then send a DoW when they're at war with Austria - then, you'll avoid war with the HRE. Be just as careful with any other member of the HRE.
• Be careful with AE. Early coalitions are deadly. Always prefer peaceful expansion. Whenever you take land, always prefer vassalization. If that's not possible, then take only the wargoal and release minors. In your first war with Burgundy, for example, take Picardie and release Nevers and some other lowland minor; Release, ally, befriend and vassalize Bar in a first war with Provence; prefer an alliance with Britanny and wait for your total base tax to increase to vassalize them; get chunks of Savoy and vassalize them - just to give them back their whole land to diminish AE and get free cores when you annex them. After a while, all this does not matter much, since you'll have gigantic amounts of manpower and land forcelimits, as well as a decent navy. But early game, wars against strong alliances or coalitions can be your downfall.
• Be careful with the Thirteen Colonies. At first, they won't be much to bother with. Eventually, though, they will be a powerhouse. With a lot of manpower and a decent fleet, they can hold their own in the Americas. It's not uncommon to see them expand in the Caribbean and elsewhere. Unless you have some considerable naval forces and a lot of troops stationed in your american colonies, be careful when fighting them. On my earlier 'colonial' game, I accidentally ended up losing most of my NA holdings to them.
• Trade is important. Unless you're planing on taking England/UK, Netherlands (if it forms) and Spain, your most likely going to rely on a bunch of scattered colonies around the world to keep the money ball rolling, instead of big holdings concentrated in specific places. Therefore, trade is really important for France, because with it you can maximize your profits, turning you from a production heavy land behemoth to a world wide trading empire - that is also a land behemoth.
• There's no overkill when it comes to military. In my endgame, I was finishing up the Aristocracy tree; I had finished Offensive, Defensive, Quality and Quantity. My manpower and my forcelimits were through the roof, just as my manpower pool recovery. I had more troops then Russia. More then the Ottomans. I had the same FL and MP of the first few nations combined (excepting Ottomans and Russia). And even then I had a hard time dismantling the HRE and defeating strong naval powers of the late game. GB, for example, focus so heavily on naval that by the 1780's, they had small 15~20 stacks of heavies everywhere in the world. I learned really fast that, before the DoW, I should keep all my light ships in docks if I wanted to keep them. They could ship 10~15 stacks of troops everywhere. Don't get me wrong, you can be very powerful: I kind of managed to do some of the acomplishments of Napoleon: breaking up the HRE, utterly defeat of Spain and Prussia (which, in my game, was formed by a blobbed up Brandenburg, comprised of most of northern Poland) and even some things that he didn't (like decisively defeating Russia without losing everybody to winter attrition). But I couldn't defeat the british on the sea and by the time I dismantled the HRE, I was so beaten up that anyone of the GP could take on me at the time.
• Don't listen to the naysayers, buildings are good. Eventually, you're going to be swimming in MP. Expend it in buildings, they give you a nice economical boost; use the ledger to build them and check to see how much they affect your manpower and your income. In your colonial direct holdings, build trade and naval, production if possible. In your home provinces, build trade and production, everything if possible.

TL;DR:

• Take Diplomacy first. Period.
• Attack them when they're weak. This is specially true regarding Burgundy.
• Be careful with AE. Early coalitions are deadly.
• Be careful with the Thirteen Colonies.
• Trade is important.
• There's no overkill when it comes to military.

 

[King of Nords]

France has +2 diplomatic relations, is large enough to become Papal controller with some ease, and doesn't really need the rest of the diplomatic ideas group to succeed. You'll have 3-4 diplomats (including the embassy one) relatively early without wasting a valuable idea group.

As for "annexing vassals quickly", I find that a detriment to my game generally, those vassals are very useful early on. Free generals, armies that can gain independent military access to take isolated regions (like Calais), a small boost to force limit as the vassals get +3 base limit on top of their province limits. There's very little reason to rush annex them, and even if you disagree; in single player, releasing them and waiting out the truce is a far more effective means of doing so for the majority of them (the exception being vassals that border other states). The AE is tiny as you have cores on practically all their regions, and you don't waste diplomats.

In general, I find that France is very capable of playing the colonial game. All it requires is an interest in Ireland, namely Connacht, and you're sorted. Even without it, Brittany isn't a horrificly bad jumpoff point. I've gone Economic > Exploration > Expansion, full blown Exploration > Expansion > Defensive/Offensive, or the more restrained Economic > Exploration > Defensive/Offensive in single player, and I've found that catching up on the colonial game is easy even if you don't prioritise it. France is the Swiss Army Knife nation, it can do everything. I do tend to prioritise colonisation as the trade income is tasty and far easier to obtain than conquering minors (which I diploannex as a rule unless they're utterly defenceless).

 

[Katakakes]

So I went with your guys' tips.. though I really disagree with taking Diplo ideas, because I just don't think I need them. I don't need the rep, I don't need to diplo cap. Annexing vassals quicker doesn't matter that much especially considering that my first national idea is a boost to vassal income.

In theory, if you have a big vassal of a not accepted culture, if you annex them you might even make less money when you get their lands. But anyway I had to adapt my ideas to my rulers so I opened the game with Defensive ideas. My monarchs had most points in military, and you usually end up having more military points than any others. I've expanded into Exploration now and I'm nearing my third idea, which I'm not sure yet. I'm very ahead in admin so I'm thinking of either Innovative or Economic. What do you guys think?

Oh and btw..

BURGUNDY DIED. CASTILLE GOT IT. >:C!

Austria is doing everything wrong, they're conquering territory within the empire, not honoring calls. Ergh.

Either way, Sweden broke free, Denmark called me in, we destroyed Sweden, Denmark ate Norway and now we're good friends.
Aragorn is still the weakest of our triumvurate but I see him as a younger bro, whom I'll protect against Castille, unless the Iberian Wedding procs, which will make me very sad.

I currently outgun England's navy. And I kinda want to start taking those dutch lands over. Castille doesn't have any good allies, pretty sure I can take them on all by myself.

And my colonial range sucks so I can't colonize anything. Thought I was being sneaky by asking fleet basing rights from Denmark but they seem to have changed that function.

 

[unmerged(88013)]

So I went with your guys' tips.. though I really disagree with taking Diplo ideas, because I just don't think I need them. I don't need the rep, I don't need to diplo cap. Annexing vassals quicker doesn't matter that much especially considering that my first national idea is a boost to vassal income.

The whole reason to annex quickly is so you can get more vassals, preferably bigger, then rise and repeat. The bigger your tax base becomes, the larger the countries you can diplo vassalise. That's how you can expand into the HRE.

Diplo ideas are good if you want to concentrate on europe early on. Personally, I prefer to take Cape Verde early and block off Portugal and Castile so I take exploration first.

But anyway I had to adapt my ideas to my rulers so I opened the game with Defensive ideas.

That's usually a bad idea unless you're swimming in MIL points with a 6 ruler. Being even one tech behind, if it's a crucial one, can be the difference between your country collapsing or winning.

My monarchs had most points in military, and you usually end up having more military points than any others. I've expanded into Exploration now and I'm nearing my third idea, which I'm not sure yet. I'm very ahead in admin so I'm thinking of either Innovative or Economic. What do you guys think?

Admin points are at a premium. Go Expansion for the extra colonist, merchant, +2 relations, and +rep.

BURGUNDY DIED. CASTILLE GOT IT. >:C!

1. Release burgundy
2. Force Castile to return its cores.
3. Integrate.
4. ?
5. Profit.

And my colonial range sucks so I can't colonize anything. Thought I was being sneaky by asking fleet basing rights from Denmark but they seem to have changed that function.

That's the slow route. Take Castile's Canary islands or Portugal's Madeira, Azores, and Cape Verde.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

That's the slow route. Take Castile's Canary islands or Portugal's Madeira, Azores, and Cape Verde.

That "slow route" gets you to new world between late 1470's and 1490, which is faster than AI Portugal reaches Brazil in most cases, and there's more to conquer/chunk into a CN up there than in SA.

Not to mention Connaught is much easier to beat than Castille or Portugal, though making Portugal a vassal before it makes a CN could be enormously useful...

 

[mgoetze]

I don't need the rep,

I think this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game works. There is no such thing as a country that doesn't need more diplomatic reputation.

 

[unmerged(88013)]

That "slow route" gets you to new world between late 1470's and 1490, which is faster than AI Portugal reaches Brazil in most cases, and there's more to conquer/chunk into a CN up there than in SA.

I can get there earlier and block off Portugal and Castile that way. It means France can completely dominate the Caribbean trade node, get those juicy african gold mines, and control the trade flow from the east. To me that's a better proposition than colonising NA first, which is mostly poor in terms of trade goods, which is what matters.

Not to mention Connaught is much easier to beat than Castille or Portugal, though making Portugal a vassal before it makes a CN could be enormously useful...

You forget, that you also need to tech up in diplo to reach NA if you go the Connaught route, unless you plan on fighting denmark to control iceland. I'm glad you have so many diplo points to spare, I know I don't.

 

[unmerged(88013)]

I think this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game works. There is no such thing as a country that doesn't need more diplomatic reputation.

I wish there was a like button ^^

 

[Morwys]

France has +2 diplomatic relations, is large enough to become Papal controller with some ease, and doesn't really need the rest of the diplomatic ideas group to succeed. You'll have 3-4 diplomats (including the embassy one) relatively early without wasting a valuable idea group.

(My emphasis).

1) Depending on the Papal Controlling game to have diplomatics is just plain annoying. I don't do it because it's a retarded minigame. 2) I don't build the embassy. The only $1000 buildings worth it are the +1 leader ones. But you're right, the Diplomacy idea tree is not necessary to succeed, it's just optimal.

As for "annexing vassals quickly", I find that a detriment to my game generally, those vassals are very useful early on. Free generals, armies that can gain independent military access to take isolated regions (like Calais), a small boost to force limit as the vassals get +3 base limit on top of their province limits.

That's on the hands of one the stupidiest battle AI ever. I simply can't depend on a bunch of 3~5 stacks to effectively occupy and confront the enemy. Those troops, even if diminished, are much better and more efficient on the hands of the player.

There's very little reason to rush annex them, and even if you disagree; in single player, releasing them and waiting out the truce is a far more effective means of doing so for the majority of them (the exception being vassals that border other states). The AE is tiny as you have cores on practically all their regions, and you don't waste diplomats.

Let me see if I understood: are you suggesting that, instead of expanding through vassals, I should release them - taking the stab hit - and then conquer them back - taking the AE hit - just to save up on diplomats?

That's the most stupid strategy I ever heard. And, I'f I'm not mistaken, you don't have 'cores' on their lands, you get 'claims' if you release them. If this is the case, then on top of it, you need to expend ADM points to core all of it. Honestly, I could never use that kind of absurdity just to skip on Diplomatic ideas, that remain useful throughout the game.

In general, I find that France is very capable of playing the colonial game. All it requires is an interest in Ireland, namely Connacht, and you're sorted. Even without it, Brittany isn't a horrificly bad jumpoff point.

Ireland is a horrible place to start with a Colonial France. You'd have to expedn tons of ADM points to core those provinces, in the first place. Britanny is more than enough to start colonization.

I've gone Economic > Exploration > Expansion, full blown Exploration > Expansion > Defensive/Offensive, or the more restrained Economic > Exploration > Defensive/Offensive in single player, and I've found that catching up on the colonial game is easy even if you don't prioritise it. France is the Swiss Army Knife nation, it can do everything. I do tend to prioritise colonisation as the trade income is tasty and far easier to obtain than conquering minors (which I diploannex as a rule unless they're utterly defenceless).

Economic is useful. Exploration is essential, but taking it so soon is useless: you don't have the range anyway. I'd wait to take it as a third idea or fourth idea. Expansion is only useful if you plan on expanding on Asia. Other than that, it's overkill, since it gives bonuses that the Trade and the Naval idea groups also give, only much more efficiently. Offensive/Defensive are useful. I tend to prioritize colonization, but I also expand through wars, using force vassalization and vassal feeding.

EDIT: About never needing +dip reputation:

I think this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game works. There is no such thing as a country that doesn't need more diplomatic reputation.

This.

About annexing vassals quickly:

The whole reason to annex quickly is so you can get more vassals, preferably bigger, then rise and repeat. The bigger your tax base becomes, the larger the countries you can diplo vassalise. That's how you can expand into the HRE.

This.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You forget, that you also need to tech up in diplo to reach NA if you go the Connaught route, unless you plan on fighting denmark to control iceland. I'm glad you have so many diplo points to spare, I know I don't.

I factored the diplo cost when I gave the date range. France will probably be closer to 1490 than 1478, because it will have vassal deals and relations etc.

Based on your Iceland comment, I believe it is you who is misunderstanding the mechanics. Connaught and Iceland have the same tech requirement; diplo tech 7 and the 3rd exploration idea.

Anyway, what I was hinting at is that for a superpower like France, you can effectively colonize both simultaneously. CN's are inherited on annexation in 1.5, regardless of full annex or annexing a vassal (note however, that making Portugal a vassal after CN formation will free their CN instead, so be careful). Because of this, if you vassal Portugal, hammer Castille, and use all of your colonial power in NA, while Portugal colonizes SA, then when you annex Portugal you will effectively have runaway CN's across the entirety of the new world, and far sooner than otherwise as you'll have effectively doubled your colonization rate (Portugal starts with exploration and adds one via NIs).

 

[Niels.p]

I would prefer to take a low base tax coastal province from Morrocco because it also offers you a route too asia via africa. The're also quite a lot gold provinces in South Africa, Mali and Mutapa. Morroccon two most southern coastal provinces are only 1 or 2 base tax and only cost about 80 adm. so its not a big waste of points.

Also if you want too annoy the other colonizers as much as possible you should release nations in their lands and then keep relations above +100 with the released nations and warn them afterwards just to be sure. Whenever they want their cores back you can enforce peace on them and have an easy defensive war (the AI often does not pull in their allies in offensive wars)

You can also diplo-vasssalize a released Wales/ Cornwall and after intergrating them you can diplo-vassalize Irish minors. With this you ensure that the other colonizers will spend resources on europe instead on their colonies. And when the're are as balkanized as possible they wont be a threat because they have less resources for fielding large armies / fleets.

The diplomacy NI will certainly help you with this divide and colonize tactic. (more relations, extra diplomat, higher dip rep for diplo-vassalisations and intergrations and easier too make alliances)

Also feeding cores/claims too vassals is better than conquering provinces yourself. No AE and no adm points spend on coring. Releasing Burgundy and then Attacking Spain is a very profitable strategy because you can DoW castile agian immidiatly after the truce is over.

 

[Thrake]

So, the point of your post is about your loss against Burgundy. Actually, you should have gone south, helped Aragon to kick Castille. Together, it should have been an easy pick. Then, either you both can take Burgundy, and go for it when AI does, either you can't, and you carpet Castille while Burgundy carpets you (and you keep some decent stack to arass Burgundy and delay the sieging of your provinces). In the end, you could have gotten something close to a white peace, or gotten a few successfull demands with bits of luck.

 

[Beagá]

Just attack Burgundy when it´s busy with Áustria, done.

Denmark is a good ally, as is Áustria, which usually takes a while to become rival. Specially if you befriend them right from the start.