Good Germany tank division composition?

[TheMoe]

I started off with enough mobile infantry to get my tank division templates up to 30 or so organization, then I watched a few 'How To' videos and saw that people were adding 2-3 motorized artillery divisions (truck + artillery icon), and now I'm reading that the mobile artillery is not as good as more medium tanks that have the artillery research (SPA) and the anti-tank research (SPAT). I'm now guessing that a good tank division would have enough motorized or mechanized infantry to bring the organization up to 30 or so, plus maybe 60% tanks and 40% SPA or SPAT.

The main reason I'm asking is that tanks specialize in hard attack, and what I see as Germany is that I'm up against mostly infantry or at least troops with an infantry icon, and the enemy divisions with a tank icon are few and far between. Also, the generals in charge don't seem eager to pit tanks against other tanks and they would rather throw my nearby infantry / artillery divisions at them. Why have tank divisions if the game doesn't use your own tank divisions to counter them? Hard attack vs hard attack, and high piercing vs high piercing?

Would it be better to put a tank division into my infantry divisions so that each infantry division has some tank support than to have dedicated tank divisions that are attacking infantry with a high hard attack, that the infantry can avoid? I think that's the way hard and soft attack works, right? If you have less armor, then your troops are more affected by soft attack and less by hard attack?

The whole thing is a bit confusing, because if I were an infantry soldier and I saw a tank, I would certainly think it could kill me easily, and I wouldn't stop to say, "That tank mostly has hard attack, and as an infantry man I'm less likely to be hurt by it."

 

[I_am_Nemo]

Somebody else will probably write a comprehensive guide (or link one from elsewhere) but I'll try to make a concise answer.

You're correct in thinking that soft attack is the most important component in breaking through infantry divisions, and this is indeed a tank division's most important role (both in HOI and IRL).* This is where SP artillery shine, and do in fact out-preform regular tanks. Which is not to say regular tanks don't have good soft attack; they far out-preform infantry and don't lag too far behind artillery. (1939 Mtanks have 19 base soft attack, compared to basic artillery's 25, this narrows over time as MTank 3 has 32 soft attack, compared advanced artillery's 34).

The biggest advantage of concentrated tanks lies in boosting a division's average armor value. A division which has higher avg armor than it's opponents' piercing value will get substantial bonuses in combat. From memory, it deals 50% more org damage and takes 50% less. Since org damage is what allows you to actually dislodge infantry divisions and make progress on the front, this is a major boost offensively. And since basic tanks have higher armor values than armor variants like SPart, it's generally worthwhile to include some basic armor as well as SPart, in order to make up for the low armor on your mot. Including a few tanks with infantry won't necessarily be enough to avoid being pierced, which means your tanks end up acting as more expensive, less effective artillery. Unless you can get armor > piercing, including tanks with infantry dilutes your tanks without substantially improving your infantry. If you need to kill enemy tanks, pumping out AT guns is more cost effective. However, against the AI (especially unmodded) enemy tanks are probably not a major concern.

 

[Mister Analyst]

Would it be better to put a tank division into my infantry divisions so that each infantry division has some tank support than to have dedicated tank divisions that are attacking infantry with a high hard attack, that the infantry can avoid? I think that's the way hard and soft attack works, right? If you have less armor, then your troops are more affected by soft attack and less by hard attack?

@TheMoe

That would depend on whether your divisions are meant to be "offensive" or "defensive" divisions.

An excellent video by Reman's Paradox [HOI4] An In-Depth Guide to Land Combat might provide some help. The effects of soft attack, hard attack, defense, breakthrough, and hardness in combat are thoroughly explained.

 

[Simon_9732495]

The main reason I'm asking is that tanks specialize in hard attack, and what I see as Germany is that I'm up against mostly infantry or at least troops with an infantry icon

Tanks have not only the best hard attack, but also the best Soft Attack.
If you want hard attack you have to do Tanks.
If you want soft attack you can also work with Artillery in various versions, but Tanks are better.

The reason why Tanks are better against Inf than other high soft attack divisions, is Armor, Hardness and Breakthrough.
I just wrote this posting lately: -> https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/breaking-the-line.1413015/post-26832120

To summarize, for attack you want:

• Higher soft attack as enemy Defense. (Tanks are good at soft attack)
• Higher breakthrough than enemy attack (Tanks are best at breakthrough)
• Higher armor than enemy piercing (Tanks provide armor)
• High hardness to mitigate enemy soft attack (Tanks have high hardness)

Concerning division design:
In my opinion this is the perfect Tank division for Operation Barbarossa in Mid 1941:

Template:

Stats in the Field with Generals:

Variant:

Remarks:

• Doctrine is full Mobile Warfare, Designer is Henschel that gives speed. Tank is designed to be as fast as possible.
• Mech 3 is a 1944 tech and not available for Barbarossa. Mech 1 and 2 slow the division down and are a lot more expensive than Mot. Mech is not worth it.
• I assume air superiority for Germany. Therefore no support AA or SPAA in the division. The Tank for DDay-defense should include some AA.
• Yes the variant is VERY expensive with 520 land xp. Just upgrade the speed to 12 km/h and then add main gun and reliabilty for as much land xp you have. But keep in mind to research full land doctrine. You will need land xp there as well.
• Fiel marshal has logistics wizard and panzer leader. General has panzer leader and improvisation expert.
• No Rocket Artillery, because there are many other things to research. With support rocket artillery the division would have a bit more soft attack.
• Should you add SPGs?
  • Yes you could do the division with them. Basical impact: It would make the division cheaper (12.3k vs. 9.6k) with slightly worse stats.
  • It WOULD NOT increase soft attack, because Medium SPG3 have not much more soft attack per width (16 vs 18.3) and you need more Mot because of the lower org. In my example here it has even lower soft attack (660 vs. 633), because I only upgraded speed and reliablity of the SPG variant, because the land XP is limited.
  • It has lower hardness (76:65) that means you get 45% more damage from enemy soft attack. (24*1.45 = 35)
  • It has lower armor (69:60)
  • It has lower piercing (92:75)
  • You need to research Medium3 SPGs ahead of time.
  • You need more land xp to upgrade them
  • You need another production line
• My opinion: I don't add them.

Variant with SPGs:

 

[TheMoe]

Somebody else will probably write a comprehensive guide (or link one from elsewhere) but I'll try to make a concise answer.

You're correct in thinking that soft attack is the most important component in breaking through infantry divisions, and this is indeed a tank division's most important role (both in HOI and IRL).* This is where SP artillery shine, and do in fact out-preform regular tanks. Which is not to say regular tanks don't have good soft attack; they far out-preform infantry and don't lag too far behind artillery. (1939 Mtanks have 19 base soft attack, compared to basic artillery's 25, this narrows over time as MTank 3 has 32 soft attack, compared advanced artillery's 34).

The biggest advantage of concentrated tanks lies in boosting a division's average armor value. A division which has higher avg armor than it's opponents' piercing value will get substantial bonuses in combat. From memory, it deals 50% more org damage and takes 50% less. Since org damage is what allows you to actually dislodge infantry divisions and make progress on the front, this is a major boost offensively. And since basic tanks have higher armor values than armor variants like SPart, it's generally worthwhile to include some basic armor as well as SPart, in order to make up for the low armor on your mot. Including a few tanks with infantry won't necessarily be enough to avoid being pierced, which means your tanks end up acting as more expensive, less effective artillery. Unless you can get armor > piercing, including tanks with infantry dilutes your tanks without substantially improving your infantry. If you need to kill enemy tanks, pumping out AT guns is more cost effective. However, against the AI (especially unmodded) enemy tanks are probably not a major concern.

Thank you. I'm reading through all the responses now, and I am happy to see that your response helps me understand game mechanics, especially when it comes to adding a tank division to an infantry division. I watched a YouTube video in which the tuber recommended adding tank recon to boost the armor just a little bit, which he felt was enough at the time (year or so ago) to trigger the armor > piercing mechanic, though he might have been playing Japan against China. It's been a while and a bit hard to remember.

Edit: I do recall now that the player was starting as Japan and was certainly going against China's poorly-armed infantry divisions.

 

[TheMoe]

@TheMoe

That would depend on whether your divisions are meant to be "offensive" or "defensive" divisions.

An excellent video by Reman's Paradox [HOI4] An In-Depth Guide to Land Combat might provide some help. The effects of soft attack, hard attack, defense, breakthrough, and hardness in combat are thoroughly explained.

Thank you for the link. I'm going take a quick break from reading the rest of the responses and watch the video!

 

[TheMoe]

Tanks have not only the best hard attack, but also the best Soft Attack.
If you want hard attack you have to do Tanks.
If you want soft attack you can also work with Artillery in various versions, but Tanks are better.

The reason why Tanks are better against Inf than other high soft attack divisions, is Armor, Hardness and Breakthrough.
I just wrote this posting lately: -> https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/breaking-the-line.1413015/post-26832120

To summarize, for attack you want:

• Higher soft attack as enemy Defense. (Tanks are good at soft attack)
• Higher breakthrough than enemy attack (Tanks are best at breakthrough)
• Higher armor than enemy piercing (Tanks provide armor)
• High hardness to mitigate enemy soft attack (Tanks have high hardness)

Concerning division design:
In my opinion this is the perfect Tank division for Operation Barbarossa in Mid 1941:

Template:
View attachment 614339

Stats in the Field with Generals:
View attachment 614340

Variant:
View attachment 614341

Remarks:

• Doctrine is full Mobile Warfare, Designer is Henschel that gives speed. Tank is designed to be as fast as possible.
• Mech 3 is a 1944 tech and not available for Barbarossa. Mech 1 and 2 slow the division down and are a lot more expensive than Mot. Mech is not worth it.
• I assume air superiority for Germany. Therefore no support AA or SPAA in the division. The Tank for DDay-defense should include some AA.
• Yes the variant is VERY expensive with 520 land xp. Just upgrade the speed to 12 km/h and then add main gun and reliabilty for as much land xp you have. But keep in mind to research full land doctrine. You will need land xp there as well.
• Fiel marshal has logistics wizard and panzer leader. General has panzer leader and improvisation expert.
• No Rocket Artillery, because there are many other things to research. With support rocket artillery the division would have a bit more soft attack.
• Should you add SPGs?
  • Yes you could do the division with them. Basical impact: It would make the division cheaper (12.3k vs. 9.6k) with slightly worse stats.
  • It WOULD NOT increase soft attack, because Medium SPG3 have not much more soft attack per width (16 vs 18.3) and you need more Mot because of the lower org. In my example here it has even lower soft attack (660 vs. 633), because I only upgraded speed and reliablity of the SPG variant, because the land XP is limited.
  • It has lower hardness (76:65) that means you get 45% more damage from enemy soft attack. (24*1.45 = 35)
  • It has lower armor (69:60)
  • It has lower piercing (92:75)
  • You need to research Medium3 SPGs ahead of time.
  • You need more land xp to upgrade them
  • You need another production line
• My opinion: I don't add them.

Variant with SPGs:
View attachment 614343

Thank you very much for your in-depth reply. I read everything that you linked. I have to say I'm really surprised how adding the SPG and balancing organization created such a remarkable decrease in soft attack, hard attack, and breakthrough. I wouldn't have expected to see those stats. You make some very good arguments regarding your reasoning for building up tanks only (limits to research, available army exp, and timing). It really helps if you know the console functions and can create "What if?" scenarios. Thank you again for taking the time to post this valuable info. I think it should be pinned or added to a guide.

 

[TheMoe]

I have to say that I have prioritized researching better equipment and equipment upgrades over land doctrine. In my last playthrough, which is still ongoing, I attacked the Soviet Union with only level 3 land doctrine researched. I did win, and it didn't cost me a whole lot of troops, but I saw a ton of red flags when combat started, and that was with air superiority and tactical bombers.

Here are the infantry and tank division builds that I used: I'm not too impressed with the stats of my tank division, compared to the build that Simon_9732495 posted.

Edit: It looks like my infantry had more than enough piercing to take on a light tank, but not enough to counter a stock medium tank, which seems like a waste of anti-tank power. Looks like it's better to either be able to pierce a med tank, or reduce the piercing to the level of a light tank and add in something to increase soft attack.

Here's the final version of the tank I used. Looks like I had about half of them replaced with the upgraded version (below) by the end of the war.

 

[kettyo]

Maybe SPG battalions shouldn't take 3 width? I don't think an SPG needs any more space to operate than an assault armour. Static artillery needs quite a space so that's fine but why SPG?

As i see it SPG is currently useful for fast mobile defensive (exploitation) units but not so much for breakthrough units.

 

[BloodAsp]

How do you guys get so much army exp to modify divisions to such extend + be able to afford such expensive variants?

 

[him_15]

Very informative topic, bookmarked.

 

[TheMoe]

How do you guys get so much army exp to modify divisions to such extend + be able to afford such expensive variants?

I don't know about others, but I take the Blitzkrieg Theorist Heinz Guderian as my first pick. He gives +0.05 army exp daily, and I find if I take him early and I exercise my troops, then I end up with enough army exp. I also send tanks to assist Spain, and I don't micro the tanks, letting them fight as long as they can.

 

[kettyo]

How do you guys get so much army exp to modify divisions to such extend + be able to afford such expensive variants?

Attachés, lend-lease, and volunteers are the best way i think. Don't use too strong volunteers as enemy will break and run. The point is to remain in the battle as long as possible so to let your own and the enemy ORG be reduced at a similar pace.

 

[Kazakk]

How do you guys get so much army exp to modify divisions to such extend + be able to afford such expensive variants?

Spanish civil war and Sino-Japanese war, you can send 3 divisions to spain and like 12+ divisions to China if you send to all warlords.
I get so much XP that I have 40w infantry, 40w tanks, 40w mountaineers, 20w motorized, with full support equipment and enough XP to boost 2 doctrine researches. That's when starting the war at september 1939, historically.
And a lot of air XP too, by the time I begin expanding my airforce production, my fighters are all upgraded to 5/5/5/0 and enough XP to boost many doctrines.

 

[sterrius]

Maybe SPG battalions shouldn't take 3 width? I don't think an SPG needs any more space to operate than an assault armour. Static artillery needs quite a space so that's fine but why SPG?

As i see it SPG is currently useful for fast mobile defensive (exploitation) units but not so much for breakthrough units.

SPG´s are mostly fine. Only the Medium tank Artilhary is currently bad. They nerfed them patchs ago because they where too strong and since them its hard to justify any medium variant outside of the AA one.

If you go for variants you need to either
1-> Use the Light variants to reinforce infantary/motorized division with better SA and some armor. They're cheap for tanks and can hugely improve damage, piercing and AA.

2-> Use the heavy variants to reinforce medium tanks. You sacrifice speed but germany with all those speed bufs can still easily get 6-7km/h on those divisions.
Heavy tank artilhary 1941 can reach 100 Soft attack each with 5 attack. And its perfectly possible to reach some months before barbarrosa and get tank 1943.

3-> Variants do demand XP points spent on attack.

4 -> Simon build is nice but he does rely 100% on air superiority. IF USA lend lease CAS (Multiplayer) or USSR wins the air war those tank divisions are gonna melt.
On a contested/soviet air superiority you do need at least 1 division of SPAA.

How do you guys get so much army exp to modify divisions to such extend + be able to afford such expensive variants?

On singleplayer.

-> Get anchuluss to get +5XP
-> Create a division with a single battalion.
-> Create 70 divisions. Separate 5 to send to the civil war. The other 25 you also transform into 1 divisions with 1 batallion to get the rifles.

Civil war starts.
-> Donate 3000 to 5000 rifles, also 1 art per month to keep the donation alive send the 5 divisions and also send tatical bombers/cas.

The rifles will give some XP. the 5 divisions you send to some place where the penalty is working so they can keep fighting forever giving XP.
The planes tatical bombers are better, cas second. They will get way more than 500XP allowing germany to get Fighter 1 with 5 Engine.
You can send a diplomat but i rather have him for Japan!

Sino- Japanese war
-> Donate rifles (3000-5000 again), some convoys and your 280 pre war fighters. Donating some light tanks is nice too.
-> Send planes too. So now you have 500 bombers getting XP. Replace them for rookies they get to level 3-4 of experience.
-> you can send diplomat and/or forces. But be aware the atrittion here is high and can damage your stockpile.

Around 37 you also get the Land doctrine experto.


With all of that you should be able to get 700-1000xp before 1939.
On MP you do need to adapt those for the rules of the server. But the concept is the same. helping both win their wars.

 

[Simon_9732495]

How do you guys get so much army exp to modify divisions to such extend + be able to afford such expensive variants?

I do it similar to @sterrius .

• 7 Volunteers to Nat Spain.
• 5.000 Guns + 1 support eq monthly to Rep. Spain.
• Attache to Japan
• 10.000 Guns + 1 support eq monthly to China
• Maybe going slower in the war against Denmark or Yugoslavia to grind some more XP if I need it.

I get 400 XP for the last 4 land doctrines, ~100 for a tank template and 175 (7 upgrades) for Medium2 and 175 for Medium3. (Together 850 XP )
The 520 XP for one Tank in the posting above is a little bit over the top. (I wrote "perfect" ... )

 

[sterrius]

Here are the infantry and tank division builds that I used:View attachment 614405

About infantary divisions.

I made a ton of tests yesterday and today. Tested up to 11 Different divisions against tanks and infantary. Both attacking and defending.
i did this both to remember myself and to confirm some things around the community.

Those are the rules of thumb.

1-> Defense = Enemy Attack x2 (In a ideal World ) Thats because of a few reasons.

A) 2+ divisions can focusfire and wipe your division quickly from battle. Making a fair fight actually a pretty uneven one.
B) Air superiority will give penaltys to you
C) Without defense you leave the front too quickly. There is no point to have 2000SA if you can´t stay in battle for even 1 day.

Here is a example. (Plains combat)
I made a soviet with Superior Firepower (Shock & Awe + Support routes)
both sides have same year tech (1941).

Air superiority buff his attacks AND nerf my defenses.
Even with a base value of 595 im just barely above his 645 Attack.
Soviets can also reach around 550-600SA with Mass Assault.
And thats with 0 Planning bonus for them and germany do have full Entrenchment bonus!

Tank builds like the ones @Simon_9732495 made can get to 900-1200SA with SF or Mass Assault!
Even reach 1500+ with planning.

When SA surpass defense. Every +100 gives precious hours allowing your division to actually do something steady routing at first sight.
thats how brutal the East and D-Day fronts can get!

Germany Mobile Warfare does not give any Defense or Attack bonus.
Only thing your division is good at is being stubborn.
And they can´t be stubborn if they don´t have defense.

So as Germany Aim for 600+ Defense and go for 700+ later in the war.
And get every defense upgrade your generals/marshals can give for your infantary.

Sacrifice Artilhary if needed, reck, even add a Military Police support if needed.
You need to get those numbers up because the main job of your divisions is to hold any ground your tanks get and stop D-Day so you worry about only 1 front.

Thats why 1939 rifles are so important. They give +50-100 defense and for a doctrine that give no bonuses, technology is the only real way of improving and keeping up.

here is a example. Same division on same general with 1936 vs 1939 rifles. (Template below).

You would be surprised the amount of german players in MP that don´t know why their infantary never hold vs the soviets.
Some just go for SF as it is the "easy route". (not really as the tanks lose a up to 70% breaktrough and you will face other problems ).

While you get a enormous amount of rifles I and II to keep things together rifle III and IV are the ones you need to aim for.
Donate the Rifle I and II to other players later. Italy for example can use some free rifles as they have problems to use 100% of their manpower.

Now that you have defense lets see attack.
Usually 4 art is recommended a lot, but for mobile warfare this is a Trap!

Here is my Barbarrosa infantary division after i did a ton of tests.

Comparing vs the Classic 4 Art division.

that 4art div Soft Attack can be improved but you do sacrifice 1 company. And its not worth it.
If you really wish trade hospital for a MP Squad and get that defense closer to 600 (28Def + 13.5 SA with 1939 Rifles).

People usually talk bad about using MP companys on offensive/defensive divisions. Because they use the 1918-1936 rifles and i agree, with those rifles MP is a bad support company.

After 1939 that squad becomes quite strong. If you're not researching rockets use a MP instead. Its cheap and give good stats.


About HA and Piercing for infantary vs Tanks,

Without complete air superiority infantary will never have a chance vs tanks on a "fair" fight.

-> Basically just get 1 Line or Support. AT and be happy, There is no point going for 2+ AT´s. (Same rule for AA).

To pierce a 1943 tank you need. (Using template above).
-> 1 Line AT with at least 1942 tech.
-> 1942 Rifles
-> 1942 and 1944 Infantary piercing upgrades. The 44 one is kind cheap. With enough tech upgrades you can push a Ahead of time for it. Save it for last.

With this you reach around 65 piercing With just a little dmg you can pierce @Simon_9732495 Division, likely in the middle of the battle he will lose the Armor Bonus.
If you really go for it on factorys you might have everything by mid-end of 1943.

With 1943 AT you can get 77 piercing.

Now everything above is nice on theory.
Pulling it off is the real challenge, To manage the limited amount of factorys is 50% of the challenge as germany.

Also while its good to aim for 1942 rifles as mobile warfare do need them.
Its unlikely you're gonna have a army 100% made of 1942 rifles before 1944 or even 45.


PS: If you need a 20 or 10 Widht division.
Go full infantary and use Eng, AT, AA, Art and Rocket companys.
Those divisions are purely defensive so no need for hospital (As they don´t fight often) or Supply (they are likely on the atlantic wall/Norway).
If you don´t have rocket use a MP.

With 1939 rifles a simple 20 Wifdht full infantary can reach 400-450 defense and around 200 attack.

 

[TheMoe]

About infantary divisions.

I made a ton of tests yesterday and today. Tested up to 11 Different divisions against tanks and infantary. Both attacking and defending.
i did this both to remember myself and to confirm some things around the community.

Those are the rules of thumb.

1-> Defense = Enemy Attack x2 (In a ideal World ) Thats because of a few reasons.

A) 2+ divisions can focusfire and wipe your division quickly from battle. Making a fair fight actually a pretty uneven one.
B) Air superiority will give penaltys to you
C) Without defense you leave the front too quickly. There is no point to have 2000SA if you can´t stay in battle for even 1 day.

Here is a example. (Plains combat)
I made a soviet with Superior Firepower (Shock & Awe + Support routes)
both sides have same year tech (1941).

Air superiority buff his attacks AND nerf my defenses.
Even with a base value of 595 im just barely above his 645 Attack.
Soviets can also reach around 550-600SA with Mass Assault.
And thats with 0 Planning bonus for them and germany do have full Entrenchment bonus!

Tank builds like the ones @Simon_9732495 made can get to 900-1200SA with SF or Mass Assault!
Even reach 1500+ with planning.

When SA surpass defense. Every +100 gives precious hours allowing your division to actually do something steady routing at first sight.
thats how brutal the East and D-Day fronts can get!

Germany Mobile Warfare does not give any Defense or Attack bonus.
Only thing your division is good at is being stubborn.
And they can´t be stubborn if they don´t have defense.

So as Germany Aim for 600+ Defense and go for 700+ later in the war.
And get every defense upgrade your generals/marshals can give for your infantary.

Sacrifice Artilhary if needed, reck, even add a Military Police support if needed.
You need to get those numbers up because the main job of your divisions is to hold any ground your tanks get and stop D-Day so you worry about only 1 front.

Thats why 1939 rifles are so important. They give +50-100 defense and for a doctrine that give no bonuses, technology is the only real way of improving and keeping up.

here is a example. Same division on same general with 1936 vs 1939 rifles. (Template below).

You would be surprised the amount of german players in MP that don´t know why their infantary never hold vs the soviets.
Some just go for SF as it is the "easy route". (not really as the tanks lose a up to 70% breaktrough and you will face other problems ).

While you get a enormous amount of rifles I and II to keep things together rifle III and IV are the ones you need to aim for.
Donate the Rifle I and II to other players later. Italy for example can use some free rifles as they have problems to use 100% of their manpower.

Now that you have defense lets see attack.
Usually 4 art is recommended a lot, but for mobile warfare this is a Trap!

Here is my Barbarrosa infantary division after i did a ton of tests.

Comparing vs the Classic 4 Art division.

that 4art div Soft Attack can be improved but you do sacrifice 1 company. And its not worth it.
If you really wish trade hospital for a MP Squad and get that defense closer to 600 (28Def + 13.5 SA with 1939 Rifles).

People usually talk bad about using MP companys on offensive/defensive divisions. Because they use the 1918-1936 rifles and i agree, with those rifles MP is a bad support company.

After 1939 that squad becomes quite strong. If you're not researching rockets use a MP instead. Its cheap and give good stats.


About HA and Piercing for infantary vs Tanks,

Without complete air superiority infantary will never have a chance vs tanks on a "fair" fight.

-> Basically just get 1 Line or Support. AT and be happy, There is no point going for 2+ AT´s. (Same rule for AA).

To pierce a 1943 tank you need. (Using template above).
-> 1 Line AT with at least 1942 tech.
-> 1942 Rifles
-> 1942 and 1944 Infantary piercing upgrades. The 44 one is kind cheap. With enough tech upgrades you can push a Ahead of time for it. Save it for last.

With this you reach around 65 piercing With just a little dmg you can pierce @Simon_9732495 Division, likely in the middle of the battle he will lose the Armor Bonus.
If you really go for it on factorys you might have everything by mid-end of 1943.

With 1943 AT you can get 77 piercing.

Now everything above is nice on theory.
Pulling it off is the real challenge, To manage the limited amount of factorys is 50% of the challenge as germany.

Also while its good to aim for 1942 rifles as mobile warfare do need them.
Its unlikely you're gonna have a army 100% made of 1942 rifles before 1944 or even 45.


PS: If you need a 20 or 10 Widht division.
Go full infantary and use Eng, AT, AA, Art and Rocket companys.
Those divisions are purely defensive so no need for hospital (As they don´t fight often) or Supply (they are likely on the atlantic wall/Norway).
If you don´t have rocket use a MP.

With 1939 rifles a simple 20 Wifdht full infantary can reach 400-450 defense and around 200 attack.

Very interesting and fascinating research, especially the info on defense and the experimentation with the infantry template. I followed everything you wrote, except the initials "SF", which I'm sure is due to my lack of gaming experience. Would you or someone else mind defining "SF?" Thanks!

BTW, I'm also wondering if the lower defense of my troops is why I experienced so many red flags while attacking the Soviet Union in 1941. I did win, and I didn't take more then 350-450k or so losses while they took millions, but there were 3-4 red flags for every 1 green flag when the battle started. As the battle progressed, the number of red flags diminished and the line moved back into Soviet territory, until they capitulated. Is it normal to see a bunch of red flags when you first attack the Soviet Union?

I set up the line using my Field Marshal, who positioned divisions sequentially across about 1/2 of the border, and I allowed the Field Marshall to manage the battle. I had two Field Marshals with 3-4 generals each to manage the entire line.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Would you or someone else mind defining "SF?" Thanks!

Superior Firepower land doctrine.

 

[TheMoe]

Superior Firepower land doctrine.

Thank you. I'll have to look at that one.