Good Beginner Nations?

[generalelisha]

Hello everyone,
So I've been playing Paradox games for a few months now (mostly HOI4 and some CK2), and I recently picked up Victoria 2 a couple days ago. I think I've more or less figured out the game mechanics, but I don't feel confident at all really in my skills, and am thus looking for some good beginner nations to play as. I only have the base game with no mods or DLC.

My first game was as Oranje, I conquered Zulu and Transvaal but completely forgot about Madagascar until I saw the French had taken it. I did pretty well (and actually suprised myself) and played through the entire 100 years and ended up somewhere around position 30 as a civilized nation.

I then tried playing Sardinia-Piedmont but got destroyed by an Ottoman/Prussian coalition that were trying to "contain Sardinian-Piedmont aggression" or something like that. I had allied with the French earlier but they completely abandoned me before this and I could not for the life of me ally with them again.

Finally, my most recent game was as Belgium (since they are tutorial nation). I had read that you only had to worry about a "minor war with the Netherlands" right at the beginning and that "UK or France will back you up". Suprise suprise, when war came, they didn't and even allied with the Netherlands (they never attacked me though). I will admit, I actually semi-raged cause my army was trash and there was literally nothing I could do.

In conclusion:
I've played other Paradox games and know my way around the UI;
I've figured out the basic mechanics;
I need good beginner nation suggestions, and;
WTH was up with my Belgium game.

Thank you!

 

[commanderx]

Portugal would be okay I think, no need for any unification, contained and small but with potential to colonize and conquer Africa. Also get HPM mod for more nations around at that time period , and while it is a bit more railroady than base game or some other mods, at least there will not be any weird border gore in Africa. France is another good one, strong economy and only thing that you would need to worry would be Prussia trying to take Alsac-Lorreine, but really no biggy if you loose it.

 

[Messy]

Brazil

 

[Kovax]

Brazil and Sweden are reasonably "safe" starting countries for learning the game.

Once you figure out how to stabilize an economy and deal with the User Interface of the game, then taking on the task of unifying Prussia > North German Federation > Germany is a reasonable next step. You've got a technological edge over most of the world, strong starting armies, and a gazillion tiny states in your sphere (which will accept an alliance) in case anyone decides to attack you early on. Forming NGF can be done without war (use Influence to pull Saxony out of Austria's sphere, either annex Schleswig-Holstein by force or sphere Denmark, then reel in Hannover after the UK releases it). If you can sphere Luxemburg as well, they get added as a core, although you can form NGF without them. No need to fight all of those tiny city-states, they'll all agree to join you to form NGF if you have ALL of your Prussian cores sphered or annexed. Taking on Denmark for your cores in Schleswig-Holstein right from the start gives you some practice at warfare, and you can usually grab another high-literacy region from Denmark in the process, but as said, you can sphere them diplomatically instead if you don't want to fight. You'll need to take on France later for Alsace-Lorraine in order to form Germany, however, and you'll want some strong allies for that, if possible, because they'll probably be allied with Russia.

Basically, it's a great way to learn about spheres of influence.

Belgium can usually ally with either France or the UK at the start, but that generally won't work if you're already at war with the Netherlands. France will usually back you up, but the UK is notorious for dishonoring alliances, or joining the war but not really doing anything until it's all-but won or lost.

 

[GoldfishGod67]

The United States is probably the best beginner great power off of the top of my head, as you really only have to fight Mexico, don't have to worry about European wars for the most part, can sphere almost the entirety of North and South America - with only Columbia, Venezuela, and Brazil getting competition - and you are probably going to be the most powerful nation by the end of the game without the necessity for frequent wars or even colonization.

 

[Kovax]

The US is fine except for the usual grab for New England by the UK. You can generally take out their armies one at a time as they're brought over, so it's not too difficult. The mid-game immigration surge will turn the US into a powerhouse by late game, and the initial couple of decades should be mostly a matter of beating up Mexico and then dealing with the minor disturbance in the southern states....assuming that you didn't park all your armies in the South, so they become Confederates at the outbreak of war. If so, then you'll need to build all new forces to face what had, up until then, been your own troops.

 

[generalelisha]

Thanks for the advice y'all, Prussia sounds kinda fun (albeit a bit daunting), might go try that. Also, what exactly is this HPM mod, I've heard that it adds some more flavor and railroad stuff, but I'd like to know exactly what it is and whether it's worth getting. Also also, is it worth getting the DLC right off the bat or should I try learning the game some more? As I said, since I've come from other Paradox games and know my way around the UI pretty well, and I'm also fairly confident that I've figured out the basics of this one.

Once again, thanks for the advice!

 

[Kovax]

I played the base game for years, because I couldn't get the expansions without a Steam account, and Steam is not an option for me. The two expansions (A House Divided and Heart of Darkness) add quite a few interesting details to the game, and the final patch for HoD solved the biggest issue I had with the game up until that point: corruption of the save file utterly trashing your relations with other countries at the beginning of the next month, causing alliances to be broken and former friends to declare war on you. I consider the expansions worth the price for that bug fix, if nothing else, and the rebalance of a few things is a definite positive, but they're not "essential" to play the game.

Many of the mods require the expansions, but I've got mixed opinions about several of the mods. They may or may not be what you're looking for.

 

[commanderx]

HPM mostly adds content, new nations, for example Africa has more than single Sokoto, also economy and other tweaks have been added. And yeah in original Victoria 2 and its addons, you usually encounter border gore, specially in Africa as I remember, not so much in HPM because some colonialism there is locked behind events and decisions for certain nations ... oh yea A Heart of Darkness is good to have cause ... original Victoria 2... damn I remember it was a bit bland compared to A heart of darkness and its mods.

 

[SteamFax]

I've had the game sitting on my Library adding expansions and sprite packs (disappointing how come no standalone artillery or aircraft sprites) for a while and fiddled around with various starting small nations probably going for less than a half ingame year with them moving on to something else. Finally I decided to start again and go USA!

USA is good because it is huge enough to make a few mistakes and do not have to worry about getting overrun. Also because there is a war with Mexico either happening or brewing you get put into the fight right away and learn how to move armies divide armies fight with armies build ships, go sailing with armies and drop them off somewhere Normandy style. Mexico is generally not strong enough to mangle you badly if you make a few mistakes as you have enough resources to recover.

Because America is rather large nation and a Great Power one would think they have tons of units to manage but not really. you can group them together into about 3 to 5 larger armies of around 12-15 each is what I've seen so far in and I am in the year 1866.

Rebels will appear from time to time however they have not been that strong up to this point. Only thing that drives me crazy is continual messages cycling messages in the form of a half dozen reoccurring events that tend to either be abolitionist or proslavery in tone . The answer I give is always the same but I have to pause for a moment to make sure I select the correct one ; and it's an interruption to what I'm doing elsewhere; so I wish there was someway just to automate that but probably that is where mods come in ( I am investigating making my own mini mod randomizing the options for the USA so there's a certain percentage for one thing or the other to happen with just one dismissal button rather than two to choose from but that is beyond what you're asking about which country to start with) .

Events will come up with that can give you opportunities for an overseas intervention in Europe if so desired, which will also give you additional opportunities to learn how to put together a amphibious navy for distant operations .

 

[watcher_of_the_skies]

All in all Belgium as well is not that bad as a beginner.

 

[Kovax]

All in all Belgium as well is not that bad as a beginner.

Belgium is good IF you can form an early alliance with either France or Prussia. The UK is a natural ally, but isn't very reliable for supporting you if you're attacked.

 

[lemonsquid]

Tbh Prussia is the best in my opinion. You gain an understanding of the importance for spheres of influence. Plenty of room to expand with an army to back it up. Ability to form Germany. Potential to build an epic industry and navy to rival and beat the UK. A great navy leads to plenty of colonial expansion, including using your superior military not just "normal" colonization. You just need to concern yourself with the infamy limit and international diplomacy. Always try to have a Great Power buddy. whether that be France(beginning), Austria(Mid-late) or Russia (Mid-Late). Never GB as it seems in most of my cases they never committ land troops to continental europe and you get eaten alive by your enemies typically on multiple fronts. The US is too far away, Spain and Ottomans are a flop(but totally worth sphering). Italy is kinda decent but id rather have a strong austria or russia by the time italy rolls around

 

[deanwebb]

Get all the expansions, apply the 3.04 patch, then download a mod or three to try out. I prefer Blood and Iron, as it doesn't make changes to the economy.

Start with the USA and do stuff to try to wreck it deliberately, you'll learn all kinds of cool stuff.

Japan is great fun, as it gives you a glimpse into what's going on in the uncivilized nations as they try to modernize... or crush the westernizers, depending...

 

[Slayzer92]

Spain is the best beginner nation.
Behind in literacy and tech just enough to make you work to improve it, while still in a strong position to challenge for #1 spot lategame.

ps. USA is a terrible pick for newcomers as the nation is going to finish #1 in most of the campaigns no matter what you do.

 

[Oliver Twopence]

I then tried playing Sardinia-Piedmont but got destroyed by an Ottoman/Prussian coalition that were trying to "contain Sardinian-Piedmont aggression" or something like that. I had allied with the French earlier but they completely abandoned me before this and I could not for the life of me ally with them again.

You need to watch your infamy. When it goes over 25, any nation can declare war, and your allies will likely ditch you long before that.

As for beginner countries, most civilized ones should do (and I suppose Japan). Prussia is usually (as it is here) a popular suggestion. It has a lot of resources and a large population, which makes it easy to experiment with industrialization and military, and you can form Germany as a long term goal. I wouldn't worry about it being daunting: you cannot possibly fail. Even if you were to get destroyed in a couple of wars you will still be around, and in a good position to take revenge later.

I do recommend a European country, because that makes you more invested in what happens in this very active continent from the get go. The US is a bit too remote for my tastes.

 

[demanvanwezel]

sardinia-piedmont is IMO the beginner nation, you start out small so no huge territories to manage, you get an easy path towards GP status, your provinces are high in pops and have usefull RGO's, you aren't hit that hard by the 1848 revolts and unlike prussia you don't have to learn the sphere game right from the bat

 

[SteamFax]

do recommend a European country, because that makes you more invested in what happens in this very active continent from the get go. The US is a bit too remote for my tastes.

It seems the reasons given for choosing a country in an active continent with close proximity of other Great Powers sounds better for a second or third game try rather than when first learning the game; unless one likes the deep end .

 

[deanwebb]

Just don't pick Haiti. Not a good beginner country, Haiti.

Or Paraguay. I'm not a fan of starting with Paraguay.

 

[Kovax]

It seems the reasons given for choosing a country in an active continent with close proximity of other Great Powers sounds better for a second or third game try rather than when first learning the game; unless one likes the deep end .

That's my take on it. Learn the basics with some industrialized minor out of the way (Brazil, Sweden), then take on a "safer" European country like Prussia to learn about Spheres of Influence and diplomacy. After that, you can try your hand at running the harder countries. If you're in a masochistic mood, play one of the smaller city-states in Italy.....and then have your country automatically assimilated into Italy, with nothing you can do about it.