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Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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As we told before,in all my games Portugal colonizes Tenerife....
Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM (1).png
 

Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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Portugal needs to be more inclined to colonize Brazil. It seems to be at the bottom of their priority list now when it comes to colonial regions.
Castille always and i mean always colonizes Brazil in my games.
And when i play Portugal and rush brazil before they can, they colonize Africa instead, which is particularly annoying since as Portugal i want the historical African and Brazilian colonies.
When i don't play a colonial nation, Portugal is usually around the Caribbean or Florida, Castille in Brazil, England somehow ends up in Argentina, and France... well, either I am playing France, ate france or they simply dint take exploration yet (i usually restart the game after the 1550's for whatever reason)
Its almost as if the AI was hardcoded to NOT colonize historical land at any cost.

Is it always this way, or am I interacting with colonial nations in a way that "butterfly effects" them into colonizing like this?
 
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otaats

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I believe thats a colonial range problem. Castille can't outright settle the Carribean as early as the Portuguese can. To make things worse, Portugal always settles Tenerife first, so Castile doesn't get that colonial range boost they need.
 

Casko

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Castille always and i mean always colonizes Brazil in my games.
And when i play a colonial nation and rush brazil before they can, they colonize Africa instead.
Portugal is usually around the Caribbean or Florida and England somehow ends up in Argentina.

Its almost as if the AI was hardcoded to NOT colonize historical land at any cost. Granted i often play a colonial nation myself or a nation which directly interacts with Colonial nations, so i might be doing something which is influencing their colonial priorities, but i always try to play as historical as possible, so i doubt its my actions which are causing this.

Pretty accurate with or without player interaction.
 

Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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I believe thats a colonial range problem. Castille can't outright settle the Carribean as early as the Portuguese can. To make things worse, Portugal always settles Tenerife first, so Castile doesn't get that colonial range boost they need.
Good point, as Portugal i always hire Colombus denying Castille of the daring explorer bonus, so they probably cant reach anwhere else.
 

Rocketskates

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portu colonizing tenerife is not an issue, you wont be much behind on the colony game plus you will have a CB of union on Portugal by the mission tree

i got 2 issues
one: mighty cornwall ambition is placeholder, something like CRN_tradition, please fix
two: (and im completey lost on this one), i seem to randomly lose the "overseas same religion" bonus to changing culture in my TC regions, i know i know it doesnt matter, its TC but to me it does, and its frustrating, as castille i had it on all of my provinces in west africa charter, form spain, lost the bonus on kongo coast and angola, any idea why?

also is not changing the capital to madrid intentional when i change to spain? i mean im pretty sure there was an option but its not anymore
 

otaats

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portu colonizing tenerife is not an issue, you wont be much behind on the colony game plus you will have a CB of union on Portugal by the mission tree

i got 2 issues
one: mighty cornwall ambition is placeholder, something like CRN_tradition, please fix
two: (and im completey lost on this one), i seem to randomly lose the "overseas same religion" bonus to changing culture in my TC regions, i know i know it doesnt matter, its TC but to me it does, and its frustrating, as castille i had it on all of my provinces in west africa charter, form spain, lost the bonus on kongo coast and angola, any idea why?

also is not changing the capital to madrid intentional when i change to spain? i mean im pretty sure there was an option but its not anymore

We're talking AI more than human player as i understand.
 

Sandyballs95

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Its an issue because its inevitable and ahistorical, and i'm autistic for historical accuracy.

"In 1448 Maciot de Béthencourt sold the lordship of Lanzarote to Portugal's Prince Henry the Navigator, an action that was accepted by neither the natives nor the Castilians. Despite Pope Nicolas V ruling that the Canary Islands were under Portuguese control, the crisis swelled to a revolt which lasted until 1459 with the final expulsion of the Portuguese. In 1479, Portugal and Castile signed the Treaty of Alcáçovas, which settled disputes between Castile and Portugal over the control of the Atlantic. This treaty recognized Castilian control of the Canary Islands but also confirmed Portuguese possession of the Azores, Madeira, and the Cape Verde Islands, and gave the Portuguese rights to any further islands or lands in the Atlantic that might be discovered." - quote from Canary Islands' wikipedia


The Canary Islands were Portuguese during the period this game takes part. How the hell it is not historical?
What is not historical is that a 1448-1459 start does not give the Canary islands to Portugal, or that Portugal has no claims to the islands, despite only renouncing the claims in 1479, 35 years after the game starts.


EDIT: While were are on the subject why is the Treaty of Tordesilhas implemented in the game and the Treaty of Alcáçovas is not?

Check a few of the terms

"
  • With the exception of the Canary Islands, all territories and shores disputed between Portugal and Castile stayed under Portuguese control; Guinea with its gold mines, Madeira (discovered in 1419), the Azores (discovered about 1427) and Cape Verde (discovered about 1456). Portugal also won the exclusive right of conquering the Kingdom of Fez.
  • Castile's rights over the Canary Islands were recognised while Portugal won the exclusive right of navigating, conquering and trading in all the Atlantic Ocean south of the Canary Islands. Thus, Portugal attained hegemony in the Atlantic not only for its known territories but also for those discovered in the future. Castile was restricted to the Canaries. "
As you can see it is just like a Treaty of Tordesilhas, but for the Atlantic Ocean.
 
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Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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"In 1448 Maciot de Béthencourt sold the lordship of Lanzarote to Portugal's Prince Henry the Navigator, an action that was accepted by neither the natives nor the Castilians. Despite Pope Nicolas V ruling that the Canary Islands were under Portuguese control, the crisis swelled to a revolt which lasted until 1459 with the final expulsion of the Portuguese. In 1479, Portugal and Castile signed the Treaty of Alcáçovas, which settled disputes between Castile and Portugal over the control of the Atlantic. This treaty recognized Castilian control of the Canary Islands but also confirmed Portuguese possession of the Azores, Madeira, and the Cape Verde Islands, and gave the Portuguese rights to any further islands or lands in the Atlantic that might be discovered." - quote from Canary Islands' wikipedia


The Canary Islands were Portuguese during the period this game takes part. How the hell it is not historical?
What is not historical is that a 1448-1459 start does not give the Canary islands to Portugal, or that Portugal has no claims to the islands, despite only renouncing the claims in 1479, 35 years after the game starts.


EDIT: While were are on the subject why is the Treaty of Tordesilhas implemented in the game and the Treaty of Alcáçovas is not?

Check a few of the terms

"
  • With the exception of the Canary Islands, all territories and shores disputed between Portugal and Castile stayed under Portuguese control; Guinea with its gold mines, Madeira (discovered in 1419), the Azores (discovered about 1427) and Cape Verde (discovered about 1456). Portugal also won the exclusive right of conquering the Kingdom of Fez.
  • Castile's rights over the Canary Islands were recognised while Portugal won the exclusive right of navigating, conquering and trading in all the Atlantic Ocean south of the Canary Islands. Thus, Portugal attained hegemony in the Atlantic not only for its known territories but also for those discovered in the future. Castile was restricted to the Canaries. "
As you can see it is just like a Treaty of Tordesilhas, but for the Atlantic Ocean.
The Canaries were never Portuguese, they were de jure claimed by them, but de facto unnocupied.
Portugal did have a claim to those islands but they didn't settle them, its just like saying Portugal should be the one colonizing the Caribbean because technically, according to the aforementioned treaty of Alcaçovas, the Caribbean belonged to Portugal.
Is the Portuguese colonization of the Canaries historically plausible? Yes, and a Portuguese player should have an option to take it before Castille, but right now the Ai always does it (instead of colonizing, for example, the gold coast) which is unhistorical.

The better option would be having the Guanche tribes as a playable nation with Castille having a permanent Claim on it and Portugal getting an event early on which could give them a claim on the islandz as well, in detriment of their relations with Castille.
 

Sandyballs95

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The Canaries were never Portuguese, they were de jure claimed by them, but de facto unnocupied.
Portugal did have a claim to those islands but they didn't settle them, its just like saying Portugal should be the one colonizing the Caribbean because technically, according to the aforementioned treaty of Alcaçovas, the Caribbean belonged to Portugal.
Is the Portuguese colonization of the Canaries historically plausible? Yes, and a Portuguese player should have an option to take it before Castille, but right now the Ai always does it (instead of colonizing, for example, the gold coast) which is unhistorical.

The better option would be having the Guanche tribes as a playable nation with Castille having a permanent Claim on it and Portugal getting an event early on which could give them a claim on the islandz as well, in detriment of their relations with Castille.


The Carabibeans had not been discovered yet so they were not included in the treaty. A later treaty, the Treaty of Tordesilhas, made the division of the zones of controls in the new world, but mantaining the division in Africa made in Alcáçovas. However in the game there is no penalty for Castille for breaking this treaty (while there is for breaking the Treaty of Tordesilhas).

There is no need to add the Guanches. Just add maximum aggressiveness and ferocity to the uncolonized area.

EDIT: the division of the world between Portugal and Castela.
1920px-Iberian_mare_clausum_claims.svg.png
 
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Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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The Carabibeans had not been discovered yet so they were not included in the treaty
The treaty included every newfound land South of the imaginary longitudinal line between the Canaries and Cape Verde to be claimed by Portugal, which included the Caribbean. Albeit not known at the time.
The reason why tordesilhas was signed in the first place was because Spain just discovered a new continent South of the Alcaçovas line, so it would be very unfair for them if Portugal got all the profits on Spain's expense, so a West/East division (tordesilhas) would be much fairer, since both nations could reap the profits of their respective discoveries instead.

By the way, when Tordesilhas was signed, *officially* Brazil hadn't been discovered yet, but it was still included as Portuguese territory, so its not like these treaties were restricted to known land.

There is no need to add the Guanches. Just add maximum aggressiveness and ferocity to the uncolonized area.
That fine, but it serves as no deterrent for Ai Portugal to colonize the Canaries.


What about letting Portugal colonize the Canaries, but giving Spain an event to demand the Canaries from Portugal later on, which the Portuguese Ai would have a tendency to accept? Or straight out occupy it, and Portugal would get a casus beli on Spain instead.
 
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