Gold inflation

metroncho · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by Timur Lang
I think that the gold inflation should be caused only by the gold of America, and the gold of Europe should not cause inflation (in Europe) since the same one it should only be considered that it is the necessary monetary base of Europe, this is, the necessary money for all the transactions in the continent.

Otherwise, countries with whiteman = 0 should not have inflation to prevent that countries like Aztec (that they didn't consider to the gold a good of value or of change) accumulate very high inflation.

That are very good ideas.

Perhaps gold inflation should be drastically reduced, just making some random events for goldmine owners to gain inflation ( eg. +5 inflation for event) ,with a trigger date post 1500.
That could be a simple solution without changing too much the game engine ( i think).

SJG · Mar 25, 2003

It would seem to me that making it only count non-European gold for inflation purposes would just be further breaking an already broken system. It is also unjustifiable, from a realism point of view.

Maybe if European gold mines were made less valuable such that they are less likely to cause the threshold to be passed, or the New World gold mines made more valuable and the threshold moved.

Also, having deflation events for goldmine owning countries, as well as having a difficult to compute trigger, would just make having goldmines less painful in the long term. I believe is the reason the inflation is there is to make this the case. It would raise the possibility, with a little luck, of goldmines being good for inflation.

As an aside, I am not 100% comfortable with the idea of the threshold. If the threshold is needed, it implies that the penalty for having goldmines is too harsh. If this is the case the added inflation could be halved or quartered (or multiplied by 0.831, the factor is irrelevant, really) to make it fairer. It would be more realistic to see the inflation from gold being exactly in proportion to the proportion of income coming from it and not having it jump from an almost crippling level to nothing because you managed to expand a colony enough to pass the threshold.

Mowers · Mar 25, 2003

Thanks for the feedback.

But I do think that the direct relationship between number of provinces and governors is flawed and that it ought to be changed.

BiB · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by Timur Lang
Otherwise, countries with whiteman = 0 should not have inflation to prevent that countries like Aztec (that they didn't consider to the gold a good of value or of change) accumulate very high inflation.

Then again if they can use that gold to buy troops, tech and so on ...

SJG · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by Mowers
But I do think that the direct relationship between number of provinces and governors is flawed and that it ought to be changed.

Hey, I agreed with that. You're not alone.

I think the benefit should definitely be scaled by the number of provinces you own, otherwise it is just way too much of and advantage for the larger countries. In particular being a colonial nation is equivalent to having almost absolute control over your inflation, once you have the right infra level.

unmerged(2833) · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by BiB
That does bring up teh problem again of teh difference between countries that have to live of monthly income as opposed to ones that can live of yearly income. For exampel if u are France u can go many years without ever getting an extra inflation point and have lots of money. On the otehr hand wit ha trade based power as Holland u need to incur inflation on a regular basis by minting coins to have at least soem money to work with. So the nations which depend most on their prod and trade efficiency would get hit exactly in these areas with this system.

Although the general idea of having less income for some time, during which inflation decreases is interesting. But more generalized, say, you hit "deflate economy"

button, and your whole income (all sources), gets cut by some percentage (say, its halved), and during that time you get steady inflation decrease, similar to the way minting coins increase it now. (1% per year now. Maybe decrease could be slower)

You can even throw in some random goodies, like entering deflation mode costing stability or something

unmerged(6881) · Mar 25, 2003

I think that the simpliest solutions are the best.
Make a draw like John MK proposed (29%, if still too big, lower it again).

I don't think that random event would be useful for that cause it may favour some countries if not struck too often by inflation events. There will be always random element in calculations what is not good in this aspect of the game.

EDIT: Maur's post spotted already.
Maybe a button similar to "raise war taxes". For example button "lower inflation" would lower it by one point for stability hit (by one or maybe two).

Mowers · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by DarthMaur
Although the general idea of having less income for some time, during which inflation decreases is interesting. But more generalized, say, you hit "deflate economy" button, and your whole income (all sources), gets cut by some percentage (say, its halved), and during that time you get steady inflation decrease, similar to the way minting coins increase it now. (1% per year now. Maybe decrease could be slower)

You can even throw in some random goodies, like entering deflation mode costing stability or something

That was what I was hinting at really.

A 'deflate' button that hits all sources of income proportionately with some stability hits as well would be nice and more effective than what we currently have.

If you then deflate too quickly you could have alsorts of fun problems to do with such that people would still have inflation levels that you are looking to implement but that

But as BiB inflation only hits some countries at the moment, not all which seems odd to me, especially France as it had multiple inflationary issues during the time span.

BiB · Mar 25, 2003

The inflation system and its inherent problems have been one of teh most talked about topics in this forum, like ever, so this is far from an easy one to solve.

Timur Lang · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by SJG
It would seem to me that making it only count non-European gold for inflation purposes would just be further breaking an already broken system. It is also unjustifiable, from a realism point of view.

It is not so unreal (I think

), the great inflation of Europe of the centuries 16 and 17 it was produced for excess of monetary supply (quantity theory, Money Supply * Velocity of Circulation = Price level * Transactions or Output), to be simplified it can suppose that the initial gold of Europe is the necessary one for that economy.

unmerged(5822) · Mar 25, 2003

I think the best idea is to go with the suggestion of making governors remove inflation over time rather than a simple one-hit thing (as was suggested above).

Mowers · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by BiB
The inflation system and its inherent problems have been one of teh most talked about topics in this forum, like ever, so this is far from an easy one to solve.

Well I am feeling fairly positive atm. U really want to see the huge advances in connectivity and data exchange in MP. If that is possible then we can steamroller this particular issue. Onwards!

SJG · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by Timur Lang
It is not so unreal (I think ), the great inflation of Europe of the centuries 16 and 17 it was produced for excess of monetary supply (quantity theory, Money Supply * Velocity of Circulation = Price level * Transactions or Output), to be simplified it can suppose that the initial gold of Europe is the necessary one for that economy.

If all the gold coming from the New World instead all came from under someone's bed in Spain, it would still have caused the inflation.

It is the fact is that the supply of gold was suddenly so much higher that caused the problem, not where it came from.

Timur Lang · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by SJG
If all the gold coming from the New World instead all came from under someone's bed in Spain, it would still have caused the inflation.

It is the fact is that the supply of gold was suddenly so much higher that caused the problem, not where it came from.

Yes, you are right. It's only a 'simple' idea to solve it, the game engine won't be modified, reason why if they make some mini-change about inflation I think that it should be simple.

SJG · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by Timur Lang
Yes, you are right. It's only a 'simple' idea to solve it, the game engine won't be modified, reason why if they make some mini-change about inflation I think that it should be simple.

Yes, simple changes are the best. But if the change doesn't really fix it then there is little point in doing it.

Everyone knows the inflation system isn't wholly appropriate (aren't I being kind) and the fact that they haven't changed it suggests to me there isn't a simple change that will fix it satisfactorily.

I think if they were going to change it they would want do it right, which might rule out a small change. That is certainly how I would feel in their position.

unmerged(2833) · Mar 25, 2003

Lol, i know why i though the idea i posted here looked similairly to me. Its exactly how reducing dissent works in HOI....

unmerged(8915) · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by Onslaught
I think the best idea is to go with the suggestion of making governors remove inflation over time rather than a simple one-hit thing (as was suggested above).

inflation was not an easy thing to solve in the period and as you are playing the 'shadow' behind the monarch of a country, you had precious little tools on hand to lower inflation. especially if youre mining large amounts of gold straight into the treasury. it was a huge problem and not until the modern centralized banking systems and high state control was introduced can inflation even begun to be solved.

if inflation is such an easy thing to solve and (according to some) a non-issue, why do modern states have so much problems with it? and now think 1600's where it takes a month to travel from Paris to Marseille fex?

the inflation in Eu is a goo dthing, very realistic and as such should pose a very grave danger. this is not a sterile sim like civ3, this is a historic simulation that tries to look like a game

unmerged(10754) · Mar 25, 2003

then because they do not leave the gold mines like in the patch 1,05, that with Castile without having no province of more, arriving at the 1500 just was 4% of inflation, not like now which they are more than 25%

unmerged(12740) · Mar 25, 2003

i think inflation shld be totally & altogether revamped. something close to what was discussed in onslaught's thread mentioned in my sig.

Carolus Rex · Mar 25, 2003

Originally posted by tpc
i think inflation shld be totally & altogether revamped. something close to what was discussed in onslaught's thread mentioned in my sig.

Won't be done though.

Gold inflation

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