Going tall, tips and tricks

[ShoGuL]

I'm pretty fascinated with the idea of being a medium sized power focusing on development rather than aggressive expansion. I started a game as Saxony since I've never played them before but I'm not sure if I am missing any obvious mechanics to aid.

Saxony turned out to be a bit of a disappointment since you have very poor provinces and entire central Germany is wooded, but you do start with a nice dye province to improve. In retrospect, Milan or Tuscany are probably the best nations for this playstyle, by far. Milan's provinces are amazing.

This is what I've got so far:

1) Start as a 'tall' nation (Saxony, Tuscany, Milan.. any others?) for -10% development cost

2) Take the economic idea as your first or second for another -20% development cost

3) Try to capture some decent Grasslands or Farmlands provinces to make the heart of your empire, in the case of Saxony this probably means heading north to take the Hanseatic lands.

3) Diplomatic or influence ideas (or both) and try to keep a bunch of small vassals around to improve 'your' lands for you. I'm not sure if it's worth it to be above the diplo limit for this.


Am I missing anything? Also not sure if it's worth it to go diplomatic as the first idea, or if you should just rush for economic. Never seen diplo as all that useful, besides the extra relation and reputation...

 

[Korashy]

Bavaria should be a pretty good area for you. it's already economically very strong (or was pre CS) so that could serve as a strong base.

 

[oblio-]

You need tons of cash, I'd recommend something not landlocked so you can control trade. Something in an end trade node.

 

[tomstegmeier]

hansa could be good

 

[ShoGuL]

Milan or Tuscany probably best, you can easily conquer Genoa and sit on most of the (now end-)node. I did consider Hansa, but I wanted to try Saxony

But I seem to have all the 'tricks' with -development cost modifier and as many vassals as possible down? I was kind of hoping I was missing a policy or decision or something

I think Saxony and conquering the Hanseatic lands is still a good plan, though. You get to control the Lübeck trade (not as well, granted, and later) and you get the -10% development cost which is going to stack up to a lot of monarch power by the end of the game.

 

[Thrake]

Trade oriented should be very good in this reguard, because development adds to trade power it seems. So I guess merchant republics are the best for going tall.

 

[tngen toppa]

so I've played some years now and from what i see,is it rly worth upgrading?the buildings are without a question profitable,but at the same time you now can only build a very limited amount of them,but province upgrading only brings you + 0,01 - 0,03 in production and taxes and manpower is also only +1 or 2.
but even in farmland the developing costs of it would be around 20-30 at start,increasing with more development.
even with nice ideas that decrease the costs i don't think that it would be very profitable,except if you got a massive amount of power to burn...

so im seriously questioning the impact this has on the game,maybe im just underestimating it,but if its really that insignificant as i see it now,im pretty disappointed,since i seriously hoped for tall gameplay

 

[2dme]

Honestly, so far i'm finding the development costs way too expensive for just an incremental upgrade, It seems much more effective to just tech up instead, and with the extra coring and diplo annex costs monarch points are at a premium

 

[ShoGuL]

So far, vassals don't seem to improve development at all.. so that seems kind of a bummer. Anyone seen vassals improve development?

 

[Zak Preston]

You can raise tax in provinces with unaccepted cultures to make them accepted =)

Playing as a Custom Caucasian Nation (needed strong military ideas to kick arses of any invaders), going to unify Georgian, Circassian, Armenian, Dagestani and Azerbaijani cultures under one tag and develop my area to the level of Austria.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Am I missing anything?

I haven't opened up the game, but have any of the policies been given development bonuses?

 

[Denkt]

Protestant religion can give a smal (-5%) cost on development.

 

[Nitrousoxide]

The University reduces development cost by 20% in the province it's built in as well.

I would suggest picking three provinces to focus on for each type of monarch point. Since each time you increase your development level it increases the cost for all of them, you're better off specializing your provinces to get the most out of the buildings you want to make.

 

[Denkt]

That is true all three types have one specalization building each so you will get most out of that building if you specalize which also save spots for utility buildings.

 

[JOD]

Honestly, so far i'm finding the development costs way too expensive for just an incremental upgrade, It seems much more effective to just tech up instead, and with the extra coring and diplo annex costs monarch points are at a premium

I think it's situational.

So far, vassals don't seem to improve development at all.. so that seems kind of a bummer. Anyone seen vassals improve development?

I've seen them do it. Mazovia, I forgot to check before devouring but I've had Moldovia and Lithuania both improve provinces as Poland. If you however over the development, it will say if a province has been improved or not. Typically, the improvements are focused on the capital and centers of trade, so far at least.

 

[Mauer]

Frankfurt is nice, you start with an inland center of trade and Free City government for an extra -10% development cost and the province is farmland, too bad it produces grain. I'm gonna try a fully diplomatic game with them.

 

[Ixal]

Milan or Tuscany seem to be ideal.
-10% Development idea, lots of farmland provinces and easy access to two end trade nodes. And republics imo get more points than monarchies. They also need less points for tech/ideas.

For stacking -Development modifers:
National Idea
Economy
Protestant with the right perk
University when available
I think you also get -10% in the capital.

 

[BarskiPatzow]

Diplo developement into gold provinces and watch your inflation inflate

 

[net.split]

Stack all -dev cost modifiers you can get. This is critical. Start with a custom nation maybe so you don't have to dig around for the limited optimal countries. Wallachia area is good, or parts of China. Be an HRE Free City for a "purist" approach but your other options are much more limited.

Focus on +building slot terrain. Build the University together with a +% building. All development goes into the thing getting the % boost. University comes in mid-game, so plan ahead.

Use trade wars and humiliation to keep PP up. You need the MP, but you don't want to expand too much.

Make your vassals into marches. Feed them as your internal development grows.

 

[Thrake]

Honestly, so far i'm finding the development costs way too expensive for just an incremental upgrade, It seems much more effective to just tech up instead, and with the extra coring and diplo annex costs monarch points are at a premium

You sort of mentionned it yourself: coring is much more expensive, so that's a big incentive towards development.

so I've played some years now and from what i see,is it rly worth upgrading?the buildings are without a question profitable,but at the same time you now can only build a very limited amount of them,but province upgrading only brings you + 0,01 - 0,03 in production and taxes and manpower is also only +1 or 2.
but even in farmland the developing costs of it would be around 20-30 at start,increasing with more development.
even with nice ideas that decrease the costs i don't think that it would be very profitable,except if you got a massive amount of power to burn...

so im seriously questioning the impact this has on the game,maybe im just underestimating it,but if its really that insignificant as i see it now,im pretty disappointed,since i seriously hoped for tall gameplay

Yes, I think you are underestimating it. Developing Paris at start for exemple, increases tax or production from that province by 10% (they changed tax/production display; it is now monthly value while in 1.11 it would show yearly value). Manpower is a 12,5% increase, though the displayed value seem to be 10 years worth of manpower.

You're probably not expected to stay OPM all along or don't tech in favor of development, but optimal strength probably involves both expansion and development.