Going into the red shouldn't make mercenaries mad...

[PdoxLP]

And here is why:

They ARE being paid. Considering that your treasury keeps decreasing even if you're at 0 or below it means you're meeting your obligations. I know it could represent you promising the mercenaries that you will pay them later, not actual cash payments. But that would mean that your debt should get wiped out if they rebel and you kill them, who is going to collect the debt?

I think this is a very minor flaw and I think a good solution would be making it impossible to go into the negative, so you actually stop paying the mercenaries.

 

[Featauril]

good point - the mercernaries are getting their cake and eating it too! But if they stopped getting paid once you hit the red, then you would turn a profit, go in the green, then go in the red again, etc..

What might be better is if instead of a moneylender event once you're in the red, you could get an event where you could promise the mercernaries future payment (risk angering them, continue to lose money) or refuse to pay them (receive cash payment to model the money you haven't been paying them for a few months.

 

[Minchandre]

You're still paying them...for now. If I worked for a company that went bankrupt, I wold start getting nervous, even if I continued to draw a paycheck.

And here is why:

They ARE being paid. Considering that your treasury keeps decreasing even if you're at 0 or below it means you're meeting your obligations. I know it could represent you promising the mercenaries that you will pay them later, not actual cash payments. But that would mean that your debt should get wiped out if they rebel and you kill them, who is going to collect the debt?

I think this is a very minor flaw and I think a good solution would be making it impossible to go into the negative, so you actually stop paying the mercenaries.

 

[Hroppa]

Merc events should have options: in order to keep mercs on your side you should have to choose to borrow money, with associated negative effects.

 

[Morrell8]

I think the game is representing your debts when you go into the red.

 

[yellowbiz]

You're still paying them...for now. If I worked for a company that went bankrupt, I wold start getting nervous, even if I continued to draw a paycheck.

and I wouldn't be, what's your point?

 

[PdoxLP]

I think the game is representing your debts when you go into the red.

Sure. But why am I paying my debts to the mercenaries I just killed?

 

[Hroppa]

You pay them UNTIL they desert you, right? It's possible to think of it like this: You can go slightly into the red, by borrowing every scrap of local money you can get your hands on, but it eventually becomes impossible. At that point, just as you stop paying, the mercs rebel.

 

[PdoxLP]

You can go much further into the red than the number at which the mercenaries become mad though.

 

[SlyEcho]

The way it is in Sengoku is fine. As long as your income (or treasury) can cover the cost of the levies, everybody is happy.

In Victoria II, if your income is greater than the interest payments, you can continue borrowing. Usury does not really fit the CK2 era though.

 

[Rex303]

well you should be able to pay them by granting them land as well once the cash runs out (or even before) with a big relations hit with all lords.

 

[brifbates]

You have to consider that this isn't the credit card era so they really aren't getting paid and you owe money to the local bank instead. You going into the red means you have made commitments to pay and haven't actually been able to pay so now you're working on the "Can you wait a month, I'll pay you then, I promise" plan. As you go further into the red you are pushing further back when they are finally going to be getting paid-you are reducing your credit rating and angering your investors basically.

 

[spinoza013]

You have to consider that this isn't the credit card era so they really aren't getting paid and you owe money to the local bank instead. You going into the red means you have made commitments to pay and haven't actually been able to pay so now you're working on the "Can you wait a month, I'll pay you then, I promise" plan. As you go further into the red you are pushing further back when they are finally going to be getting paid-you are reducing your credit rating and angering your investors basically.

This is pre-investment banking days any money lending was usually private loans. So if you killed who you owed money to you're debts would also disappear.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Usury does not really fit the CK2 era though.

Expensive moneylending did exactly fit the CK2 era, for the promotion of war and impoverishment of princes.

 

[Weke]

war for sake of war and mercenaries for bolstering your ranks !! i can undestand if you have depletet all coffers and every single coin you bleed from your subject is allready spend for paying those soldiers of fortune so i kinda undestand it should have some effect on the state.. the intresting part is that mby merc leaders should allso have oppinion of you wich you cab try bolster with promises or something like that and then it will deteriorate your inner politics IE marchall will not like having some mercs from nowhere demanding military rigths or steward gets pissed for messing his fancy calculations of realms wealth and its usage

but for gameplay reasons i think its not really possible to build or change merc system to bee "accurate" (complex) enough before release :<

 

[PdoxLP]

You have to consider that this isn't the credit card era so they really aren't getting paid and you owe money to the local bank instead. You going into the red means you have made commitments to pay and haven't actually been able to pay so now you're working on the "Can you wait a month, I'll pay you then, I promise" plan. As you go further into the red you are pushing further back when they are finally going to be getting paid-you are reducing your credit rating and angering your investors basically.

It's one or the other. Either I borrow money from the local moneylenders in which case my mercenaries shouldn't get mad, or the money isn't deducted from my treasury. Right now you borrow money to pay them and they get mad at you even though you pay them. There is a third option, I promise to pay them, they rebel and I end up paying the promises to the mercenaries AFTER I have killed them.

I really think the game should prohibit you from going into debt without borrowing cash from moneylenders. It doesn't make that much sense imo. But in the end it's a minor issue which I doubt will ever get fixed.

 

[spinoza013]

I really think the game should prohibit you from going into debt without borrowing cash from moneylenders. It doesn't make that much sense imo. But in the end it's a minor issue which I doubt will ever get fixed.

A nice option would be to add a diplomatic option to borrow money from NPC'S. This would have relationship consequences and give new assassination plots.

 

[Hroppa]

Easy enough to mod an event that's triggered by your going below 0; this is basically what's already there. I don't see an easy way of stopping you from going below 0. The restrictions are that a) you can't check it daily without incurring performance issues, and b) best I can tell, to prevent expenditure that would take you below 0 you'd have to mod every decision/event that involved expenditure.

Higher penalties from going below 0 are very possible, as are events that allow you to borrow money.

 

[Darkrenown]

Clearly you pay the debts to the merc's widows and orphans fund. This act of goodwill means that other merc companies are still willing to sign on with you in future rather than blacklisting you

 

[SlyEcho]

Moneylending or credit could be a tech increase. Borrowing money from characters is a good idea, actually. And for more opportunities to make cash you could sell titles to wealthy people.