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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
4.391
0
The East is Red -- Goering's Delay: Mighty G. V. Cueball

Players:

Mighty G, UK and the Allies
Cueball, Germany and the Axis


Introduction:

For those of you who aren't familiar with the East is Red multi-player modification for HOI II Armageddon it probably deserves a bit of an explanation. The mod and the community has been around for about 2 years now, and played in various forms by a fair number of players -- mostly hardcore MP players who simply can not abide ruthlessly crushing the hapless AI, over and over again. It started out as a simple thing, mainly meant to deal with some pretty common exploits that are common in HOI MP play.

The list is long. The holes are large, and the rule-sets devised to take care of them as large and long, as well. Rules? Who needs em?! The object was to make it possible for players just to "play the game", in a somewhat "historical" way, rather than argue about how it should be played to get somewhat "historical" results and be a fair game at the same time.

So its two years later now, and the mod has evolved substantially and now is a comprehensive mod that changes nearly every aspect of the game. From ground combat, through air combat, right up to diplomacy.

The East is Red, for most people, is basically unrecognizable as HOI II vanilla. For example, there is no pre-set date for "Danzig", no pre-set dates for "Munich", Russia has to declare war on Finland to trigger the "Winter War", China can not be annexed and released; the combat model follows in the vein of many of the "slow" combat systems popular in most mods, "CAS Deathstars" are not nearly as effective as they are in vanilla, and the UK can not achieve "air superiority" over Berlin in 1940; units costs and IC are high enough that the division levels for the major powers are much more in line with the historical number of divisions active in the war -- no more 500 division by 1941 for the USSR here.

This version is the latest version ported to accommodate the many excellent changes made in the HOI II 1.3beta patch, and indeed is the first version of the mod where I have made an effort to get the AI's for the major powers to simulate human play, and to accommodate the fluid reactive events system I designed and called "Goering's Delay"

But that is enough of that, here is the game:

Mighty G. v. Cueball 1 v 1.

Mighty G. is an excellent fellow and one of the first players to play the mod when I first started putting it together. Most of the best multi-player games I have played have included Mighty G. in the game somewhere, both on mods and in vanilla. MG. hasn't played this mod in a fairly long time, so everything here is pretty much new to him, so I will be playing Germany, and he will be playing the United Kingdom.

What happens when and if the war progresses beyond the Fall of France, is still up for grabs. (We are still looking for a volunteer to play the Soviet Union in that event -- though it maybe that our buddy Geofactor, a longtime HOI mp addict, will be on board for that) It is very possible, and often happens, especially in vanilla MP play, that Germany just can't get through France because of the well known "All or Nothing in France" strategy -- one of the aims of the mod has been to reduce the effectiveness of that strategy to allow for more historical results, so, for play test purposes setting up with these two powers is the best possible scenario.

First and foremost, Germany must conquer France. We will figure out the rest later.

What is "Goering's Delay"?

"Goering's Delay" is what I call the latest adaptation of the "East is Red" events system. Historically, Herman Goering was opposed to war with the Allies in 1939 and argued for war with more preparation at a later date. Our purpose with this event system is to make that possible in HOI II without disturbing the main lines of the historical events themselves. Of course, theoretically speaking anything is possible in HOI II, however, doing anything even mildly radical, such as attacking Poland early, or occupying Denmark first before anything else, or ignoring Poland and attacking Belgium means that many of the other important events in the game will not happen, such as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

In vanilla, you can not, for example, decline to invade Poland in September 1st, 1939, as Herman Goering advised, and still have a semi-historical game.

In this system all of these events "float" on a variable time-line, and are interdependent but not locked into pre-set historical dates. Germany, with the right preparation, should be able to start the war of in early 1939, choose the historical path and attack Poland in fall 1939, or even ignore Poland and invade Belgium 1940, or rush build and start the war in 1938.

What's new?

The British Raj. One way I chose to limit the ability of the UK and the Allies to zerg build tanks and other advanced units in preparation for the war in France was by adding a new puppet to the empire, in the form of the British Raj, a colonial puppet in Asia. The puppet produces a fair amount of infantry, but with this, I was able to reduce the British Army to something close to its historical size, and prevent too many absurd exploits.




Thumbnail to larger image with more detail.

The Balance of Power:

The first thing that Germany must do is build an army. Without having military parity with it European neighbour, France, the Austrians will not listen to the call for Anschluss, and there will be no forcing Czechoslovakia to come to terms at Munich.

See the above image for more details on the build order I have been using to get the historical events to fire more or less along the historical time line against the AI. It's true, losing 30 IC to the British Raj is a big nerf for UK, but Germany has other new problems, and can't simply build straight IC for three years, and expect good results, since waiting too long will put off the unification with Austria, and the Fall of Czechoslovakia, both events that give Germany needed resources, units, manpower and IC.

After Germany initiates the collapse of the Treaty of Versailles by rebuilding it military power it is solely up to the German player to decide when and how he will start the war.

A Few Surprises:

If anyone wants to check this out in Single Player, feel free to do so, since I have spent considerable time reworking the AI's so that not only do they react to what the player is doing, but they will also freely choose different options. The German AI might skip Munich and just attack Czechoslovakia as soon as the effect of the "Treaty of Versailles" has passed -- most likely it wont, but it can and does happen.

For more information you can check out the "East is Red" wiki page at the HOI II wiki site, and that will give you links to more detailed explanations for everything, which are found at the main mod forum at Lord Ederon's forums.

So there is the introduction. More later as things unfold.
 
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unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
4.391
0
Der Alte Reiter
Journal Excerpt, November 1st 1937:

Versailles hangs on the country like a lead weight. The new government is dangerous. I don't like them. They are wild with enthusiasm and bright eyes: determination.But it is Versailles that gives them substance. Without that no one would listen, surely. But they commit me, so I am committed to them.

I like their enemies less.

We are rebuilding. Everything must be done in secret. The leadership is all about paper and pencils; ledgers and pens; books and bookkeepers -- two sets of each. We make divisions, and call them sports associations. We build bombers and call them airliners. We send our men on long vacations in Russia for their "health". At least we used to. There is less of that now with the new leadership.

Who would vacation in Russia? Everything is "busyness" and lies.

Good news. I am promoted, again! From Rittmeister to Generalmajor in just a few short years.

New historically based events designed to encourage resource
trading between the USSR and Germany in multiplayer games.


Journal Excerpt, April 25th, 1938:

We are united with Austria now. There was a "referendum". I am glad I was not there for that. A messy business all things told from what I hear. All in all the determined ones where very determined. I am not so determined. They are euphoric.

In a surprising development, as Chief of Staff of the army group I have been appointed to be liaison with the Kriegsmarine. That means ships, and more meetings. I hate ships. I hate meetings more. Meetings on ships?! I am a cavalry officer. Raeder has the ear of the leadership, that much is clear, but this will put me far away from the scene when the action breaks, as surely it must.

Something is afoot. Invasion? Denmark? Norway... England? Impossible. Our ships would never make it out of the Skagerrak.

The day before last I watched our latest "civilian transport" sea planes doing practice torpedo bombing runs at Keil. Fantastic! Truly. Many photographers. Even the press. But they know what to say. No one pays any attention to Versailles now.

There is talk about meetings at Munich, our Italian friends are setting it up they say. But word from above says the army is not ready to add "credibility" to our demands.

But that is politics. I would prefer a division.

Entirely redesigned Air/Naval combat system with new techs
and dedicated Naval Bomber Doctrine tree.


Journal Excerpt, August 20th, 1939:

The meeting at Munich was a total failure. Everyone has egg on their faces now. Especially those two clowns Count Ciano and "Il Duce". Pathetic. Puffed up peacocks. The leadership is furious. They are putting a brave face on it. Ominous statements in the press. Serious faces. But what did they expect? Chamberlain was going to say: "Here have Sudetenland! Be my guest: there will be peace in our times"?.

Kleist is even more furious, since Hausser got the promotion to commander of the Panzer army group. No one was expecting that. Now there is a penny-pincher for you. He spends more time at the supply depot counting beans than with the division. I was at the ceremony. That kiss ass Rommel hangs off Hausser's every word like he is god. A month ago he didn't even know who he was. And here I am in Kiel.

Von Kluge will command the Army overall: Generalfeldmarschall

New orders come tomorrow with the courier. Strictly hand to hand. No radio. Everything signed.

Raeder called and says we need a meeting... on a ship!

The Goering's Delay system activated. Here it allows
the United Kingdom to not fold during the Munich
negotiations -- at a price.



From the game log:

Code:
		name = "cueball (everyone):starting on slow" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):when i annex you im going to plunder your cigs and whiskey" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):well then I better secure Denmark" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):hehe"


Click through for more detailed image.

Session I Game Summary:

Players:

Mighty G, UK and the Allies
Cueball, Germany and the Axis


Unscheduled Game Engine Events: None
Average game speed: Normal
Session Length: 8 hours
Start date: January 1st, 1936
End date: AUgust 18th, 1939


In the previous post I talked a little bit about how to get the historical events system to fire so that Germany can aquire Austria, Czechoslovakia, and other claimed territories. The main thing is building your army so that you have military parity and better with France.

IC Build

I have a system that basically starts with a complete IC build for Germany in 1936, and a partial IC build in 1937. When the first round is done, I used the newly created excess IC and my new tech bonuses to start building my army after the first run is done in 1937. Starting with garrisons, since they are cheap. Doing a total industry zerg is a bit counterproductive in the Goering's Delay system because if you do that and don't build any army, there will be no Anschluss, there will be no Munich, and there will be no Fall of Czechoslovakia so you are building IC, but also losing IC because you lose the IC you acquire when you get those territories.

You want a balance between industry build and land army build.

The Arms Race with France:

I was aiming here to get the historical events on more or less the historical timeline, but it seems I fell behind in the arms race with France, and by April 1939 I was getting quite worried: Versaille was still in force, so I could not declare war, and the Munich system had not fired. It seems that MG had halted all upgrading for the French army right in 1936, and did not activate upgrade until France had the 1939 Infantry tech to maximize IC/days efficiency. Because of this France was producing a lot more new divisions than it does when it is played by the AI, and so I was behind in my build.

Foolishly, thinking I had enough land power I canceled my garrison serials completely after my second run of IC was done and Anschluss had fired, and started producing infantry, some motos, and armour. But this was not enough to tip the scales in favour of Germany and the events were not firing, clearly by the Spring of 1939. Remember I am trying to get Munich in the fall of 38, and all of Czechoslovakia in by spring.

Totally Screwed.

By this point I am short about 20 IC lost over a 6 month period at least, and it is only getting worse. Now I was faced with the prospect of having to throw more serials of garrisons, which I don't really want, because Garrisons cost IC too, and forcing the end of the treaty of Versaille that way.

I bit the bullet, as you can see in the above picture of the German Production for 1939 and I threw on 6 serials of garrisons and determined that I would Declare War right away when the Treaty of Versailles ended. It worked: By August 1939 I was in position to act, and MG, true to character did not back down at Munich and picked the "Hedge Bets" option. War was at hand. But where? Immediatly attack Czech? Poland? Denmark? Belgium? Netherlands?

Strategic Considerations.

At this point I was aiming for war at the latest in July, but I got August: Enough time for Czechoslovakia, but not necessarily enough for Poland as well. And I want Denmark right away to close the Baltic. I decided I would put of Poland to the Spring. I possibly could have done it but the idea of losing a lot of manpower in a winter assault against Warsaw put me off. Also, and just as important, the USSR has not come around with a deal on Molotov Ribbentrop. There is no guarantee that Russia wont declare war if I attack poland without their support. The poles might join the Allies anyway if I get to involved in France.
 
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Nov 13, 2005
2.180
0
Well seeing as i didnt make it this mornign i can at least post an AAR right?


Great Britain August 1939 - September 1940

Having exhausted all options for peace the Commonwealth is at War. Churchill walks into office to find a Great Britain ill equipped but not ill preperaed for War.

Czech and Polish Forces fall to the Wehrmact like dominoes as little can be done to save them, Denmark to follows.
France continues to mobilise its Military aged Men in hopes of preventing another murder of a generation at the Western Front. Norway is kindly told, Your with us or against us but the Norwegian Government sees the Axis as it's only logical choice to survive.

With the Phoney war in the West well underway, Donitz unleashes the Kriegsmarine against a numerically superior Royal Navy with mixed outcomes.


Denmark falls Swiftly to Axis Forces despite a valient resistance. Iceland is secured by British Marines to prevent war at sea in the Atlantic becoming a headache for the Admiralty. Donitz and his cronies make repeated attempts to harass and Sink British merchant and Combat elements ont he High Seas. Donitz meets with limited success in his objectives with British Admirals reporting merchants ships sunk in the Deep atlantic. The Kriegsmarine also attempts to rattle the RN in the North Atlantic, countless battles are fought in order to keep the Kriegsmarine from exiting the North Seas. Many RN ships have been sunk but capital ships are still safely out of reach of Goerings Luftwaffe.

The Kriegsmarine is given a bloody nose but little to no Axis ships have been sunk, Admiralty gives a green light to push hard with French ships against the KM in order to prevent the German Navy causing any more trouble, and hoping to put a swift end to the war lest Europe be turned to a wasteland.

With Poland, Czech and Denmark now firmly under the German boot the Allies focus all there attention to the defence of France and the liberation of Norway from the intolerable Facist Regime now in power. Scientist have warned British HQ that secretive materials linked to the production of fissile materials must be kept out of Nazi Hands.

The BEF is immediately ordered out of France and sent to Norway. only 1 Divisions stands up against the Royal Hussars Whilst British Ghurkas move to secure Narvik a moment before Oslo falls. Norway is now a Commonwealth ally and her people stand ready to defend freedom to the last if neccesary.

Axis forces fresh from Victory in the East mobilise under expert guidance along the Western Front. Allied commanders using WW1 maps look to Belgium as the place to stop the German advance. We did it in 1918 we can do it again. The germans use this to there advantage and retake Strasbourg in a few days. French HQ is forced to consolidate its position lest the rest of the Maginot fall to easily. The German advance then proceed onto France through Belgium where the bloodiest fighting of the war takes part.

British forces also with high morale from the whirlwind liberation of Norway return to the part in time to prevent Axis forces overunning the French Left Flank. 700,000 Brave Frenchmen move to defend there country as the onslaught proceeds from Belgium into France. Belgium forces also proove there worth until there kapitulation in Europe. The Wehrmacht whilst unstoppable has not yet earned its vaunted fame of invincibility. Many German divisions are shattered and withdrawn and repulsed from France.

At least several large battles and counter battles test the defence of France to the utmost with the British left flank prooving invalueable. The Royal Hussars, Royal Marines and Ghurkas take up position along the channel looking to catch the Germans with there pants down. Unfortunantly the BEF deploys in such limited numbers that the inevitable still stands. With one last Valient Defence the Entire French Army moves to support defence of the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower.

With the Right flank collapsed and the fear of Paris being burnt to the grund France Surrenders. BEF forces still tied up in a defensive retreat along the channel await several hours to be withdrawn before breaking off contact with German Infantry elements.

Germany installs a puppet government in France and Hitler Tours the Tower. I will also add that the BEF consisted of only 8 Divisions. 5Marines, 2 Mountains, 1 Armour.

The UK now awaits the Battle of Britain with much trepidation, Churchill asks where the reserve Planes are.........


ITALY DECLARES WAR!

Intelligence reports Italy at the Gates of Alexandria, fortunantly the vast colonial worth of Britian in India and our Commonwealth Allies have mobilised to defend Egypt and the Middle East. Reports are being kept quiet for now as MI5 begins the secret War.


Britain produced 1 run of IC (with some at the bottom of the cue not quite in production still)

Also in production stand:
Amphibious and Mountain warfare equipment,
Tank Armaments,
Anti Aircraft Batteries and modern Radar,
Merchant Fleets,
3 New Carrier Task forces along with Destroyer Support,
Landing Crafts,
Spitfire Aircraft,
.. Red Berets were also heard to be in circulation. But HQ will neither confirm nor deny there existance ^^



More Reports Soon:
Updates on the RAJ and Commonwealth partners will be made next AAR as HQ remains tightly lipped on the African Front.
 
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unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
4.391
0
Session II Game Summary:

Players:

Mighty G, UK and the Allies
Cueball, Germany and the Axis


Unscheduled Game Engine Events: None
Average game speed: Normal
Session Length: 8 hours
Start date: August 18th, 1939
End date: September 7th, 1940

Preparing the campaign:

MG has successfully put off my option of a Spring/Summer 1939 campaign against Poland and Czechoslovakia followed by a late summer invasion of France by his cagey development of the French army. I decide that even if I can't win the Czech territories by demand, I will have them by force by July at the latest, giving me time to deal with Poland before turning on France in the Spring.

Strategic Considerations:


My army should be ready by July including my precious Fallschirmjaeger division and its accompanying air transport unit. This I will use directly in my operation to sieze access to the Baltic when I attack Denmark, which will be the very first operation. Sealing of the Baltic is a priority to me, since it will leave me free to do other things without fear of harassment by the British Navy and landing parties, on the Baltic Coast. Then I will conquer Czechoslovakia, and finally Poland and settle in for the winter.

Production:

Up until now my main focus has been the production of the backbone of the German army; infantry. This and the few armoured and motorized units I have been producing should both be enough to defend the west and take care of the smaller power in the east. However, once war begins I will stop my infantry serials at the earliest convenience, and start producing long serials of my armoured core, not just for the upcoming campaign in France, but preparing in the long run for the campaign in Russia.

Even now, I am scraping the bottom of the barrel for manpower.


My army is not fully ready for an invasion of France, however, I can see a good opportunity when I see one and I notice that the Maginot line is not properly defended so I launch an fall attack, both against Luxembuorg and Strasbourgh, to better position myself for the full invasion in the spring.
The general plan goes off without a hitch, when I finally get around to declaring war. Later than I planned.

Denmark:
On August 20th, I declare war on Denmark, swiftly occupying it. This task is begun with an airborne landing at Alborg, part of my plan to forestall any landing here by the British to reinforce or delay my other operations. The Baltic is now closed.

Czechoslovakia:
Even before I have dealt with Denmark I on top of Czechoslovakia, quickly cutting the country in two and occupying the Czech region which triggers the division of Czechoslovakia, and the puppet state of Slovakia is born. I chose this option, over giving Slovakia to Hungary.

Poland and the Molotov Ribbentrop pact
Still, no conclusion of a deal with Soviet Union on Poland, and I am really loathe to getting into a war with the Western Allies, and the Soviet Union on two fronts, so I wait, but there is no Molotov-Ribbentrop pact to be had in the fall of 1939. I also do not want to waste my pressure manpower on a Winter campaign in Poland, so I put the whole thing off to the Spring, and noticing a weakness in Maginot line in France I opt for a limited fall campaign in the west.

A Lucky Break in France:
I am lucky here, probably because MG is convinced I will take the historical route and go for Poland in 1939, instead I march my army up the the Saar and invaded Luxembourg and Strasbourgh in October, taking advantage of the fact that snow has not begun to fall in the west. Capturing this precious piece of the Maginot Line proves to be a valuable asset in my campaign next summer.


From the Game Log:

Code:
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):whats this evil stack in saarbrucken" 
		name = "15:00 October 16, 1939 : XXVIII. Armeekorps has arrived in Saarbrücken." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):wheres my nuke from orbit button" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):its an evile stack of Germans" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):lol" 
		name = "23:00 October 16, 1939 : XXVII. Armeekorps has arrived in Saarbrücken." 
		name = "8:00 October 17, 1939 : We have engaged hostile armies in Strasbourg."

From the Game Log:
Code:
		name = "0:00 August 2, 1940 : Italy joined our Military Alliance with Slovakia, Hungary and Norway" 
		name = "0:00 August 2, 1940 : Italy joined the war on the same side as Germany, Slovakia, Hungary and Norway in their war against United Kingdom, Iraq, France, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South " 
		name = "Africa, Nepal, Bhutan, Yemen, Oman, British Raj, Belgium and Netherlands." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):there goes the neighbourhood" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):heh"

From the Game Log:
Code:
		name = "4:00 September 19, 1939 : We lost a naval battle against France in Helgoland Bight. The following ships were sunk." 
		name = "United Kingdom - HMS Glorious(CV), HMS Courageous(CV), HMS Furious(CV)." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):ouch" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):caught you at night"

More detailed version of the last.
 
Last edited:

son of liberty

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Sounds interesting guys. I hope for regular updates.
 

unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
4.391
0
Like this mod where can i download it?
This variant of the mod is in my signature. It is just one of the straight forward paste zip file into the main folder and unzip and then overwrite variety. There is no auto-installer or anything. You probably know this, but I always advise people to add the modded game to a fresh copy of HOI DDA (1.3beta2) so as not to effect the vanilla. Alternately you could use the Jones Soft Generic Mod Enabler (JSGME) which some people are familiar with. The checksum should come out to be XTPS.
 
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unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
4.391
0
Session II Game Notes:

The UK Leans on Norway

One of the earliest features I added to the East is Red mod, when I started making it 2 years ago was a unique and more detailed event system around the Altmark Incident and the invasion of Norway. This game features one of the more unusual outcomes of that system, where Norway ended up joining the Axis.

Historically, British interest in Norwegian affairs started almost as soon as the war began, and Winston Churchill, not yet Prime Minister, was vocal in parliament about the need for intervention in Norway, on the premise that holding the strategic port of Narvik would cut off the critical supply of iron ore from Sweden, and also, if need be be a good staging point for the British to support Finns against Russia. Admiral Raeder got wind of these ideas, and more attuned to matters regarding the Baltic sea than the rest of German General Staff he actively lobbied Adolph Hitler to make a preemptive strike and forestall British meddling in Scandinavia.

Hitler at first was not very receptive to his ideas, but with the appearance of the Norwegian Fascist sympathizer Vikdun Quisling who could be used to form a government there, Hitler warmed to the plan for an invasion of Norway.

Too often in HOI II MP games, Germany can simply decide that direct intervention in Norway is not worth the time, and Britain has no option to act on this issue. In the East is Red system, through the "UK Leans on Norway" events, Britain can force a decision on the Norwegian question, one way or the other. Yes, Germany can choose to ignore the Altmark incident and skip involvement in Norway but this is not necessarily the end of the issue. Britain too has options. So Germany has to consider carefully if he wants to allow the British the opportunity to make Norway an a base for operations against Germany in the north, when considering his decision at Altmark.


Not to be outdone, and despite Churchill's diplomatic bungling and with the Wehrmacht still busy in France, MG snatches the opportunity of making quick work of the Norwegian fascist state, which last less than a month, when the British invade Norway in force.

Click through to larger image.

In this game, British diplomatic bungling has the worst possible results after MG decided to pressure Norway for a full Alliance. Norway balked and sought protection in the Axis, while the government in Sweden, threatened both from the East by the Red Army, and now from the west by an aggressive British Scandinavian policy moved sharply to the right.

Decision at the Fall of Czechoslovakia

In most MP games, taking the "Hungarian Option" when Czech falls is a no brainer. However in this mod, there are some good reasons to take the Slovakian option. The philosophy of EIR has always been that no good deed should go unpunished, so in the case of the Soviet Union deciding to take the "Bring Socialism" option in the Winter War, this has hidden diplomatic effects that draw other neutral powers closer to the Axis fold, such as Sweden, and even Nationalist Spain. This is done partly to give the game more balance but also meant to give appropriate a-historical consequences, when players make a-historical choices. We don't want to limit choice, by making rules that say things like "Russia must choose to accept limited victory in the Winter War", we want them to be able to make those choices, but make those choices have consequences.

Likewise with the Fall of Czech event, its pretty obvious that the Axis is best served by giving Slovakia to Hungary so that Hungary becomes a powerful minor. However, here this impacts Axis relations elsewhere, in particular Romania, Hungary's traditional rival. Choosing to divide Czechoslovakia with Hungary makes Romania mad, and reduces the chance of Romania joining the Axis soon, and potentially forever, depending on how the rest of the game plays out. This way, the German advantage of playing the "Hungarian option" is counter-balanced, and makes creating puppet Slovakia a reasonable choice, since it will encourage Romania to join the Axis sooner.
 
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unmerged(74599)

Nexus 6
Apr 17, 2007
4.391
0
We are already far into this game at session IV and Germany is at war with the Soviets, but its hard to keep up. But I have this from session III, which was a short session anyway.

Big news was that the Soviet Union now has a player. More on the legendary HOI II vetran here: Geo's Downfall

Session III Game Summary:

Players:

Mighty G, UK and the Allies
Cueball, Germany and the Axis
Geofactor, the Soviet Union


Unscheduled Game Engine Events: Several, MG timed out repeatedly, Geofactor was using his kids laptop.
Average game speed: Below Normal
Session Length: 4 hours
Start date: September 7th, 1940
End date: March 12th, 1941
North Africa, Yugoslavia and preparing Barbarossa:


Strategic Considerations:

Having dealt with France, it is now time to determine my next course of action. The decision of Churchill to be more forceful than he should in pressing for Norwegian support for the Allied war effort has had beneficial blowback for the Axis. Also, Sweden for once decided to back Finland with direct military intervention in the Winter War. Sweden and Finland are now Allied. This bodes well for spreading out the Soviet defenders when Barbarossa begins. The Soviet Union seems to be having a tough time of it with the Finns, probably because many of his troops are deployed guarding the rest of the Soviet Frontier, from Vladivostock to the Ukraine. Japan is making progress but still bogged down in China, so they are very little threat to the eastern Soviet Empire, but he can not be sure when the Germans might make a surprise attack on his frontier.

Italy and North Africa

The situation is basically stable in North Africa, but the failure of the Italian army to immediately secure Alexandria bodes ill for the whole affair. However, just to keep the pressure up the Axis take advantage of the Iraqi coup to try and finesse North Africa from the Levant. Italy captures Cyprus, and we land a small party in Syria proper, but not before the British annex it. With the still intact Kriegsmarine threatening in the Atlantic, the Regia Marina has a free hand, and we land some German armour as part of the invasion.

Resistance is too great and the force is withdrawn, and the invasion of Yugoslavia begins. Italy triumphant, declare war on Greece, unilaterally.


Click through to larger image

From the Game Log:
Code:
name = "Mighty G (everyone):nice" 
		name = "0:00 February 20, 1941 : We lost a naval battle against United Kingdom in Coast of Lissabon. The following ships were sunk." 
		name = "United Kingdom - 2nd Destroyer Flotilla(DD), 8th Destroyer Flotilla(DD), 3rd SAN Destroyer Flotilla(DD)." 
		name = "Germany - KMS Leipzig(CL), KMS Stettin(CL)." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):fairwell Kriegsmarine" 
		name = "14:00 February 20, 1941 : Kriegsmarine has arrived in Coast of Porto." 
		name = "14:00 February 20, 1941 : We have engaged hostile fleets in Coast of Porto." 
		name = "1:00 February 21, 1941 : We lost a naval battle against United Kingdom in Coast of Porto. The following ships were sunk." 
		name = "United Kingdom - Sam Torch Flotilla(TP), Essex Flotilla(TP), HMS Hermes(CVL)." 
		name = "Germany - KMS Dresden(CL), KMS Nürnberg(CL)." 
		name = "14:00 February 21, 1941 : Kriegsmarine has arrived in North Iberian Shelf." 
		name = "15:00 February 21, 1941 : We are attacked by hostile fleets of United Kingdom in North Iberian Shelf." 
		name = "21:00 February 21, 1941 : We lost a naval battle against United Kingdom in North Iberian Shelf. The following ships were sunk." 
		name = "United Kingdom - 7th Destroyer Flotilla(DD)." 
		name = "Germany - KMS Stuttgart(CL), KMS Königsberg(CL), KMS Karlsruhe(CL), KMS Admiral Scheer(CA), KMS Graf Spee(CA), KMS Deutschland(CA)." 
		name = "7:00 February 22, 1941 : Kriegsmarine has arrived in West Biscaya Basin." 
		name = "9:00 February 22, 1941 : 1. Flotte has arrived in Coast of Porto." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):unlucky that i was sending 1 loan HQ to britain" 
		name = "11:00 February 22, 1941 : 2. Flotte has arrived in North Iberian Shelf." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):and pick up the bismar ^^" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):to africa"
The War at Sea
Scouting the English Channel and the environs reveals the English navy, battered no doubt by the pitched naval battles in the North Sea, I slip the Kriegsmarine through the channel and base it in the Bay of Biscay. The battlefleet's luck runs out finally in February and all but the Bismark are destroyed off the coast of Spain when it sorties out to interrupt British troop transports heading to Africa.


The Balkans:


But sill Germany needs more Allies. Romania is still "social liberal" and highly neutral, and so far, despite the fact that I sided against Hungary in the "Vienna Diktat", Russia has not yet pressed its claim in Bessarabia, so it is beginning to look like Romania and its substantial army might sit out the war as a neutral power. Yugoslavia jilted me at the "Pact of Steel" and left the Axis, so by rights I can invade, but there is no immediate need to do so, and also good reason not to. However, I will be attacking Yugoslavia means I will be able to link up with friendly Bulgaria even if Romania is not on board, and possibly war will tempt Romania into an alliance by the possibilities of it acquiring territories there.

On the other hand, keeping the war contained could be to my advantage, since it will reduce the number of beeches I will have to defend. Then there is the wayward Mussolini. The Italians have made clear their claims to much of the Balkans and Greece.

[See the Session III game notes below for more details on the Balkans.]




Click through to larger image

Planning Barbarossa:
Without Romania, and with limited access to Finland, the Wehrmacht will be fighting on a very small front during operation Barbarossa. The front was slightly extended by the annexation of Lithuania to the Soviet Union through diplomatic pressure, but not nearly enough. As well, neutral Lativa acts as a shoulder to my advance, blocking friendly passage north.

Two plans are considered:

A) Hammer: An massive attack at one point, either the North or the South with the idea of quickly achieving strategic breakthrough. This seems to offer the best hope for immediate territorial gain, but does not afford the opportunity of surrounding and destroying many Soviet divisions. The enemy will be driven back, but not destroyed.

B)Hammer and Anvil: A two prong attack with the intent of making a pocket out of any defender in the center. Even small successes here at eliminating Soviet divisions will help the long term campaign.

In the end, I choose the last, preparing a large force in the north to break through, which is to be my hammer, and a smaller force to push back the Soviets in the south as my anvil. The force in the south will push the defenders back toward to Kiev, making the anvil while the force in the north is to break through and strike toward Vyshgorod, the hammer closing the pocket. With Finland in the war, enough Soviet troops should be drawn off to make the more audacious plan effective.



Click through to larger image
 
Last edited:

unmerged(74599)

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Session III Game Notes:

Manpower
It doesn't take long to realize that in HOI that even if IC is King, manpower is Queen, and some would say that it is the opposite. One of the ways that the East is Red system helps prevent a historical build orders and wild results that are caused by rampant exploitation is by reducing the manpower of most countries, in particular the Allies at the start of the war. This helps prevent the Allies from stacking France in the "All or Nothing in France" strategy.

If you play China, or Japan, or even Russia you will not notice much of a difference, but even Germany is somewhat limited at the start. Germany does have enough to get the ball rolling but even by 1941, Germany is beginning to feel the manpower pinch. Does he reinforce, or product new, and just upgrade the existing. But there is some relief at hand....



Click Through for larger image.

Decision at the Balkans

The East is Red system is based on creating unique and appropriate diplomatic results for a historical situations, on the principle that for the sake of play balance every a-historical advantage is balance by a negative reaction. The Balkan's are no different, here and several modifications have been made to tune the games diplomatic system.

Yugoslavia and the Pact of Steel:
In vanilla HOI II it is pretty much taken for granted that Yugoslavia will abandon the Axis at the Pact of Steel event. It is 90% guaranteed in fact. So often players abandon the idea of an alliance, ignore Yugoslavia entirely or just invade. Here though, there is a reasonable chance that the pro-Axis government will stick to its guns, and Yugoslavia will remain a firm ally. This is worthy of consideration, and a viable choice. If the alliance fails, Germany can declare war and occupy in the traditional manner.

Diplomatic success here does not please the Bulgarians much, and likely as not they will sit out the war.


Romania:

It takes a bit of carrots to convince the Romanians that Germany is their friend. For example, they disapprove of partitioning Czechoslovakia with Hungary and prefer Slovakia, obviously disapprove of the siding with Hungary in the Vienna Diktat, but become much more friendly should Russia press its claim on Bessarabia. They also often approve of war with Yugoslavia, and will likely join the cause in the name of sharing the spoils. But this is not guaranteed, and Germany has to be careful in handling diplomacy with Romania.

Russia, the Finnish War and the Baltic States:

Baltic States:
The situation in the Baltic states can be resolved in different ways. The Russian player can choose to win these territories by diplomatic demand, in the "historical" manner, or choose just to invade. However, being openly aggressive has negative impacts on relations elsewhere, and most of the Balkan European minors that traditionally side with Germany get positive gearing should Russia be openly belligerent.

Russia should tread carefully and pay attention if Germany still holds Guarantees of Independence on these countries, which happens when the Limite Pact is offered in the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact, since it will likely have the option and possibly choose to cancel the Soviet/German Non Aggression Pact.
 
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Juan_de_Marco

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Thank you! I have always struggled with the rigidness of the event chain, and since I am not a proficient enough modder to do it myself, I continued to muck about in 1.3DD (Also haven't bought HoI3 yet)
and a nice AAR for sure, MP seems very much different from SP.
 

unmerged(74599)

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Thanks. Yes, you actually have to fight something. I only play MP now. And occasionally SP to check stuff out.

Let me know if you decide to pick up armageddon and are testing it out in SP. I am always interested in comments. Also, there is often room for a spare hand in these games. I am quite overwhelmed fighting human Soviets steamroller, and the cagey Alllies.
 

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is there like a 1938 scenario in this mod? because I installed this mod, correctly I think, on my comp. checksum is NZQS and I used the zip version of the install, and I seem to only have the 1936 mod scenario available... :confused:
 

unmerged(74599)

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There originally was a 38 for this mod, but I took it out with the latest update because I did not have the time to update it properly. Mainly I focused on the 36 because there was already the 38 MEM MP mod, and I wanted to do something different.

That said, you could try just running the game hands off until January 38, and then pick a major, and see what the AI has done for you. Many of the AI's have been tweaked to do human like things, SU and Germany both build industry for example.
 
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unmerged(74599)

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Session IV Game Summary:

Players:

Mighty G, UK and the Allies
Cueball, Germany and the Axis
Geofactor, the Soviet Union


Unscheduled Game Engine Events: Geo Dropped Twice... Geo is the Dropfactor
Average game speed: Below Normal
Session Length: 7 hours
Start date: March 12th, 1941
End date: September 28th, 1941
Barbarossa and Evacuating North Africa:



From the Game Log:
Code:
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):k" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):in" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):ok" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):starting" 
		name = "21:00 June 1, 1941 : We are attacked by hostile armies of Soviet Union in Wilno." 
		name = "0:00 June 2, 1941 : Focke-Wulf has developed 'Improved Interceptor'." 
		name = "cueball (everyone):resaerch" 
		name = "1:00 June 2, 1941 : We won a battle against Soviet Union in Slonim." 
		name = "1:00 June 2, 1941 : We won a battle against Soviet Union in Slonim." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):youll need to upgrade advanced morgue facilities for when i get there" 
		name = "1:00 June 2, 1941 : We won a battle against Soviet Union in Wilno." 
		name = "cueball (everyone):thanks for reminding me"


From the Game Log:
Code:
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):need 5 min pause" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):lol" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):ussr is shitting itself" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):lol" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):literally" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):josephs off to the can" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):^^" 
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):k" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):k" 
		name = "16:00 July 11, 1941 : United Kingdom bombed us!  Orléans took 0.39 IC, 0.36 Rare Materials, 0.36 Metal, 1.53 Energy in damage." 
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):ammo dump" 
		name = "18:00 July 11, 1941 : United Kingdom bombed us!  Essen took 1.02 IC, 0.36 Rare Materials, 1.14 Metal in damage." 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):those new british cv's should be built next month i think"


From the Game Log:
Code:
		name = "14:00 August 25, 1941 : We are attacked by hostile fleets of United Kingdom in Gulf of Taranto." 
		name = "18:00 August 25, 1941 : We lost a naval battle against United Kingdom in Gulf of Taranto. (No ships were sunk.)" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):hello son" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):top of the morning to ya"
		name = "cueball (everyone):heh" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):you can run" 
		name = "Mighty G (everyone):but you cant hide RM"


From the Game Log:
Code:
		name = "cueball (everyone):so we done?" 
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):yea" 
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):mighty afk" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):good one" 
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):so save it" 
		name = "cueball (everyone):lots of fun" 
		name = "Geofactor (everyone):yea"
 
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Juan_de_Marco

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Were you not a bit understrength for this Barbarossa? I mean only now having 2.5 million men in arms, while a historical venture featured 4M.
 

unmerged(74599)

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Totally. Definitely, I have no Romania and no Finland for one thing.

The figure I read for the historical Barbarossa was 3.9 million, including reserve -- all allies included. I actually have more divisions on this front than are accounted for in this attack. Probably a total of about 3,000,000 on this front, and another 1,000,000 out around elsewhere. Guestimate.

Perhaps one of the things that is most appealing to me about how the mod is coming together, is that we are actually having division numbers and army compositions that are somewhat historical. Note for example that I built both Bismark and Tirpitz and Scharnhorst, and other navy, and a good deal of subs and did not zerg build armour, so doing that and then having somewhat historical division numbers is about where I think the game should be.

I also am pretty sure that zerg building armour for France is pretty much counter-productive and that the combat system seems to encourage more historical build orders. Infantry is the back bone of the army while, armour is for mobility.

So for France I had 84 Infantry Divisions and 10 light Armoured and an assortment of garrisons, an airborne units and cavalry, for a total of 149 divisions, which is only slightly higher than the historical number, and I built aircraft and something close to the historical OBB of ships. Yes, I was aiming for something of an historical build order, but also, as I said, infantry is essential, for a variety of reasons.

However, I didn't really need those ships, but then also, Mighty didn't try and zerg defend in France, so all is about equal there.
 
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unmerged(74599)

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Session IV Game Notes:

Building Soviet Power

This is probably a good time to talk about what we are doing with the Soviet Union in this mod. A big problem with the Soviet Union is that with proper zerg builds it can be so powerful by 1941 that it is almost impossible to crack. Deleting all but the most important elite units, a mass IC build, and then an 1940 infantry spam, can give Russia an army that exceeds the division totals achieved historically by the Soviet Union in 1945.

Oddly enough, on the other hand, a Soviet Union that is invaded in 1940 is completely helpless due to the seriously low GDE, and doctrine development at that time. On the other hand Germany is just hitting the peak of its power.

Most MP rules system deal with this by simply disallowing and invasion in 1940, trusting that a good German player can crack the Soviet nut with some luck.

In keeping with the theme of keeping players strategic options, the EIR system has been designed with the object of giving a fair match between these two titans, whenever Germany ends up invading, 1939, 1940 or 1941.

Military and Industrial Co-operation between the Soviet Union and Germany:

It is simple enough for Russia to damage Germany by refusing to trade with it. Germany needs that oil and those rares, but the Soviet Union can trade elswhere. Not so much anymore, since the trade relation benefits the Soviet Union by giving it more disposable IC, research bonuses and even blue prints given by the Military and Industrial Co-operation event system.

Trading with the Enemy:



Of course in 1936 Germany France and England are not getting along, but a human (not the AI which has built in controls) UK or French player is penalized for trading with their other ideological nemesis through the "Trading with the Enemy" events. No longer can a human UK game the system by taking advantage of US largess in the supplies department, and then feed these free of charge to bulk up the Soviet economy prior to the war.

Smoothing the Soviet Power Curve

In vanilla HOI the basically the USSR wallows from 1936 to 1940, and then has a sudden jump in power 1941 and 1942, while Germany basically hits its stride in 1940, and then levels of in 1941.

GDE and Doctrine:

The GDE deficit given to the Soviet Union has been removed. In its place the Soviet Doctrines have been remodeled so that it achieves power more gradually over a period of time. This helps the USSR should the enemy invade early.

Industry and IC:
The period of the 1930's was a period of great turmoil for the Soviet Union, of which the "Great Officer Purge" of 1938 modeled in the game was just one part. Wide swaths of soviet society were wrapped up in similar drastic changes, and it took some time for Russian civil society to recover.

To simulate this we also give the Soviet Union a "peace_time_IC" deficit, just like the USA and the other democracies. The Soviet Union still has massive amount of potential with which to fight the war, but can build less IC, and fewer units in preparation for war.

This deficit is removed slowly by world events (such as the anti-Comintern Pact, the details of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact and the collapse of France) as the Soviet Union mobilizes for the upcoming war.

Peripheral Effects of the "Training" Production System:

A while back a player named "General Sherman" made the point about how HOI looks at unit creation as "manufacturing", and not training. All units, whatever they are get treated just as if they were manufactured goods, and get high production gearing bonuses. This results in some odd effects like super fast infantry unit builds because they are being modeled in exactly the same production model as ships. But creating an infantry division is not at all like making a ship -- it is first and foremost an issue of training, not manufacturing. Not much that can be done about that, but we did lengthen the amount of time it takes to roll out labour intensive unit types like infantry and armour divisions to help iron out some of these distortions.

One of the nice side effects of the longer production times for most land divisions is that the Soviet player must start producing units long before war starts. Also, since Germany may attack earlier than the historical date, he must also consider this factor when planning his IC build and army production schedule. This results in less IC being build, and also an army that is of mixed composition (1939 and 1941 infantry) at the time Germany invades.

Thus the Soviet player can not simply build industry, pre-tech 1941 infantry to be spammed based on a predictable schedule.

All in all the result is a more realistic military power dynamic and levels of division numbers that are more historically accurate .



Click through to larger image

Barbarossa:

A completely new "move industry to Siberia" system, makes it reactive on a regional level. No longer can the Soviet Union depend on an event that will just add IC to its Asian regions. If he wants to have that industry he has to fight for it, at the frontier, instead of waiting at the Dnepr.

Vacillations of Comrade Stalin:

Thematically based around the figure of Joseph Stalin, these new events allow for everything from a scorched earth policy to the removal of key Soviet officers, such as "D.G. Pavlov" who deemed to be largely responsible for the collapse of the Red Army at the beginning of operation Barbarossa.
 
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Juan_de_Marco

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Cool, Well I downloaded your mod and have found Armageddon somewhere, I think I can check it out next week or something. These updates of the Soviet Union sound also a lot more realistic. I was already impressed with the DAIM AI, due to Firestorms' game and my own playing, but this looks even better. The 'historical if you go historical too' theme is what I like, and forces you to pay your due for your knowledge of the future. Have you by any chance played Eurofront? (or Eastfront, or Westfront seperately?)