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Jul 25, 2005
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Cakravarti

Wow, thanks. That means 30+30=60% income benefits from converting pagans. Not so bad investment after all...

zaniac

Impressive. Just out of curiosity: what's your inflation?
 

Tonioz

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you are not correct, Daniel
You forgot tolls. Taxes from province only effected by this bonus.

Look real example of my sunday Spain:

Yearly income, for Prot, for Reformed
Taxation 891.8 + 89 -89
Trade 5244.4 -0 + 524
Production 1682.1 +168 -0
Manufactory 120.0
Gold 948.4
Vassals 4.8
Interests 0.0
Events 0.0
Peace 0.0
Census Taxes 825.1 +82 -82
Tolls 1946.5
Trade Tariffs 379.5

Reformed gave still a bit more gap than protestant - 524 vs 510. Though usually i have more than 43% of my income as the trade. This Spain is just big colonial Empire over 100 provinces.
Though meaning techbonus, protestant are very attracting.
 

Tonioz

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uh-oh, i forgot, tolls are enfuenced by TE, so

Yearly income, for Prot, for Reformed
Taxation 891.8 + 89 -89
Trade 5244.4 -0 + 524
Production 1682.1 +168 -0
Manufactory 120.0
Gold 948.4
Vassals 4.8
Interests 0.0
Events 0.0
Peace 0.0
Census Taxes 825.1 +82 -82
Tolls 1946.5 -0 +195
Trade Tariffs 379.5

so 719 vs 510. Of course that is rude counting, when TE and PE are 100% equally.
 

Brownbeard

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how bout colonist bonus for different religions? dont reformed get more colonists by default?
 
Oct 22, 2001
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Eh, I did not forget tolls. In fact I explicitly mentioned it in my post. In comment number 1. :confused: How could you miss that?

However my math was wrong, presupposing tolls constitutes 50% of the tax income in the income screen this means that "tax" income for reformed will be 100d in my example, normal tax will decrease from 50 to 45 d while tolls will increase from 50 to 55.

EDIT, Eh, wrong again. Since trade tariffs (and vassals and manu income) are included in monthly tax income one cannot say that 50% of the tax income is normal tax income and 50% trade taxes, some % must belong to tariffs etc. And census taxes is something else that is influenced of the tax bonus/malus for prot/reformed making the equation even more complicated.

Perhaps you can say that if pure trade income constitutes say more than 50% of your income reformed should be the religion of your choice. But these percentages varies in the game. Early on trade income is nothing, then somewhere when reformed becomes a possibility your income from trade sky rockets. Then later on when you are in the end game (presupposing you are WCing) tax and production closes the gap.

And for WC catholic is definitely better for a lot of other reasons. But that becomes another question.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(35312)

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RichardTheFirst said:
Cakravarti

Wow, thanks. That means 30+30=60% income benefits from converting pagans. Not so bad investment after all...

zaniac

Impressive. Just out of curiosity: what's your inflation?


Inflation is at 6% when I left it. I did have it high early on in the game upto 30-40%, but managed to get it down with all the colonies I have produced. I'm eager to get back into my game, but something is playing up and I can't get back in. I downloaded the moctezuma 'unlimted time patch' as I wanted to take defeat the whole of Europe, but I think this may in some way be preventing the game from loading. Gutted, as I see I'm in the year 1753 :( so not long to go if I can't play an extended game of Portugal. According to the game I'm hated by almost everyone, is this typical to expect? I'm only +100 with France, England, Netherlands, Moscovy & Sweden. I'm still a Catholic nation, but there is not much love for my country. I've started only a few wars against Aztec, Inca, Chimu, Aragon & Castile. To help me I have taken royal marriages with any major Catholic nation that I deem a threat.
 

pgroves

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RichardTheFirst said:
I don't think you can change the culture of a province. I think only time and events could do that for you, but would like a confirmation.

Its possible to change the culture of colonies and colonial cities 1k-5k, but only under certain conditions (i.e. not in Europe, and settled culture different from base culture). You can't change the culture of non-Pagan cities over 5K anywhere on the map, except by event. See the
Culture FAQ for more info.

hope this helps

Paul
 

unmerged(46785)

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Jul 25, 2005
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zaniac said:
Inflation is at 6% when I left it. I did have it high early on in the game upto 30-40%, but managed to get it down with all the colonies I have produced.

Seems nice. Bet you have lots of governors.

zaniac said:
I'm eager to get back into my game, but something is playing up and I can't get back in. I downloaded the moctezuma 'unlimted time patch' as I wanted to take defeat the whole of Europe, but I think this may in some way be preventing the game from loading. Gutted, as I see I'm in the year 1753 :( so not long to go if I can't play an extended game of Portugal.

Can't help you with that, this is only my first game. But I'm learning fast :rolleyes: .

Maybe some of the experts could help...

zaniac said:
According to the game I'm hated by almost everyone, is this typical to expect? I'm only +100 with France, England, Netherlands, Moscovy & Sweden. I'm still a Catholic nation, but there is not much love for my country. I've started only a few wars against Aztec, Inca, Chimu, Aragon & Castile. To help me I have taken royal marriages with any major Catholic nation that I deem a threat.

I RM every country I can too but now I'm hated in France, Burgundy, Spain and Muscowy (about -200). And I'm only in 1523 and had only 3 wars (Fez for starters, Aztecs and Grenada)... Maybe that hate is due to the Victory Points (I have 1800 and France which is 2nd have only 700) . Probably the next ranked countries are just jealous, don't know really...
 

unmerged(35312)

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Oct 16, 2004
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I couldn't see the point in warring with Fez so I left the province alone and withdrew my forces. Afterwards I made peace as I thought it was a waste of resources at the start of the game. I guess as I'm nearing the end of the game, I could re-ignite the old flame :)
 

unmerged(10894)

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Sep 4, 2002
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Daniel/Tonio, you guys have also forgotten to account for the fact that more TE makes your merchants more competitive. This allows for them to stay in more CoTs, and for you not to have to waste a lot of money sending them all the time. The extra PE and tax advantages are purely economic but TE influences other things also.
 

the_genius

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TT4 said:
I just checked in the FAQ, and the Reformed tech modifier is -0.04, which is better than the Protestant modifier of -0.02. Also, reformed has a colonist bonus. (+2, IIRC)
You can check also those kind of numbers in the csv files in the DB folder of your EU2... but remember not to change anything if you don't want to screw your game ;)
 

unmerged(46785)

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Jul 25, 2005
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zaniac said:
I couldn't see the point in warring with Fez so I left the province alone and withdrew my forces. Afterwards I made peace as I thought it was a waste of resources at the start of the game. I guess as I'm nearing the end of the game, I could re-ignite the old flame :)

When the game starts Portugal is already at war with Fez with troops in Tangiers. I just thought it would be faster, cheaper and more profitable to win the war than to make peace. I vassalized them pretty quicky so I guess I was right. Didn't want Tangiers.
 

unmerged(31425)

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Daniel A said:
Eh, I did not forget tolls. In fact I explicitly mentioned it in my post. In comment number 1. :confused: How could you miss that?

However my math was wrong, presupposing tolls constitutes 50% of the tax income in the income screen this means that "tax" income for reformed will be 100d in my example, normal tax will decrease from 50 to 45 d while tolls will increase from 50 to 55.

EDIT, Eh, wrong again. Since trade tariffs (and vassals and manu income) are included in monthly tax income one cannot say that 50% of the tax income is normal tax income and 50% trade taxes, some % must belong to tariffs etc. And census taxes is something else that is influenced of the tax bonus/malus for prot/reformed making the equation even more complicated.

Perhaps you can say that if pure trade income constitutes say more than 50% of your income reformed should be the religion of your choice. But these percentages varies in the game. Early on trade income is nothing, then somewhere when reformed becomes a possibility your income from trade sky rockets. Then later on when you are in the end game (presupposing you are WCing) tax and production closes the gap.

And for WC catholic is definitely better for a lot of other reasons. But that becomes another question.
Actually tolls aka trade taxes will become more than 50% of your taxes. It was most of my tax income in my Portgual AAR. However I had 308% TE. But still it should be more around 2/3rds to 3/4ths even in mid game. Take a look at post #22 and you'll see what I'm talking about. It seems that trade taxes in general have been much overlooked in importance.
 

unmerged(47534)

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Aug 14, 2005
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the_genius said:
You can check also those kind of numbers in the csv files in the DB folder of your EU2... but remember not to change anything if you don't want to screw your game ;)

Well, I just wanted to correct the misinformation in this thread about the tech advantage that reformed has over protestant.
 

unmerged(10894)

Rusty, Old EU2MPer
Sep 4, 2002
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TT4 said:
Well, I just wanted to correct the misinformation in this thread about the tech advantage that reformed has over protestant.

Religion.csv states tech bonus for reformed to be 3, 1 for protestants, -1 for catholics and most other major religions. If it is a percentage as I believe it to be, reformed has a tech bonus over protestantism equal to a level of centralisation.
 

unmerged(3931)

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An additional 10% in trade efficiency will also allow you to keep more merchants in CoTs. That will indirectly improve your trade income by more than 10% overall.
 
Oct 22, 2001
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Bocaj said:
Religion.csv states tech bonus for reformed to be 3, 1 for protestants, -1 for catholics and most other major religions. If it is a percentage as I believe it to be, reformed has a tech bonus over protestantism equal to a level of centralisation.

According to the FAQ the tech speed modifier for reformed is 2 (equals -4% cost, i.e. the percentage is twice the number in the file) not 3 as you say. But it may have changed to 3 in the betas (although Chas in his description of beta changes mentions nothing about that).

On the other hand this modifier is meningless for really big nations (82+ provinces is the critical number for reformed nations playing 1.01 vanilla), it has no affect on the tech cost because it is negated by the number of cities modifier, read more in the economic FAQ. :)

Anyhow Bocaj, good of you to point out this. :) I had the numbers confused when I wrote my earlier post. There is a definite tech cost bonus for reformed nations compared to protestants (as long as we are not comparing huge nations).
 

unmerged(10894)

Rusty, Old EU2MPer
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Daniel A said:
According to the FAQ the tech speed modifier for reformed is 2 (equals -4% cost, i.e. the percentage is twice the number in the file) not 3 as you say. But it may have changed to 3 in the betas (although Chas in his description of beta changes mentions nothing about that).

I checked the file and it seems you were right there, my bad. Still, as you say, Reformed has a tech advantage over Protestantism, and an even larger one over Catholicism.