Go protestant with Portugal????

[unmerged(46785)]

Hi,

Im in GC v1.07 and I have most of the Americas including Aztec Empire by now in 1521. I'm planning an attack to Incas or Chimu next and I'm trying also to arrive to India but it's not easy, I'm still at Table trying to go to Inhambane.

I have 25% merchants (100% in Havana the richest) in every CoT except the 4 I haven't discovered yet. 1 FAA and 2 Refineries only but lots of gold, lots of census taxes and only 8% inflation.

Protestantism just appeared. What are the pros and cons of going protestant in my case?

 

[Brownbeard]

the big con is big sister east with casus belli against all heathens and heretics.

 

[Hive]

Bocaj did it in an MP game with great success to follow IIRC.

 

[unmerged(46785)]

the big con is big sister east with casus belli against all heathens and heretics.

If you mean the not so big (i'm bigger ) detested cousin called Spain, well Spain already have a permanent CB against me, I suppose because I stealed Gibraltar in a siege (I also stealed Canarias under the ToT ).

I have a huge manpower now and I'm 3 or 4 levels up in relation to them in land and naval techs.

So, I'm not worried with them, let them come, I like them to come, I WANT THEM TO COME. Any other cons?

Bocaj did it in an MP game with great success to follow IIRC.

What does IIRC stands for (man, I hate TLA's and FLA's)?

 

[lgonggr]

> So I'm not that worried with Spain, let them come, I want them to come.
> Any other cons?

Well, you'll be the only protestant state for 100s of miles around. Your home provinces probably will be catholic and not easy to convert.
On the other hand, you can sponsor England and let them build up a huge protestant colonial empire and then take it from them. You won't have to convert a single province
The protestant (zie FAQ for details) countries have some excellent advantages versus their catholic brethren.

> What does IIRC stands for ?

If I recall correctly (wikipedia internet acronyms )

Cheers,
Lodewijk

 

[unmerged(36826)]

IIRC = If I remember correctly

Reformed is probably better than Protestant, as you get a nice trade bonus which Porto does need

 

[unmerged(46785)]

Well, you'll be the only protestant state for 100s of miles around. Your home provinces probably will be catholic and not easy to convert.

OOOOOPS, forgot I have to convert. And probably not only my home provinces but the empire as well. The costs could be astronomical !

On the other hand, you can sponsor England and let them build up a huge protestant colonial empire and then take it from them. You won't have to convert a single province .

What huge protestant colonial empire? The world outside Europe is mine, all mine (except for some poor provinces. I'm leaving some crums in Canada and Africa for the others so they don't think in coming after my rich colonies).

Anyway you just convinced me to remain Catholic.

Cheers,

 

[pgroves]

IIRC = If I remember correctly

Reformed is probably better than Protestant, as you get a nice trade bonus which Porto does need

Agreed, Reformed can work well, but only if you plan things from the start i.e. build mostly TPs, don't build many colonies over level 8 (so "free" conversion) until after converting, mint to build some refineries when you have a decent mostly income (> 25) etc. Also, if playing ACGEEP, *don't* try to keep the Canaries if you're initially offered them, but then a change in the decision is made - Spain will have a CB on you for the whole game otherwise...

Hope this helps

Paul

 

[Thistletooth]

(possible repeat post, but that would be the forum's fault, not mine)

One thing to remember if you choose to stay Catholic is that as long as the ToT is in effect, Spain can swoop in and take any of your formerly Aztec provinces, as well as anything else in Latin America outside of Brazil.

 

[Alyosha]

One thing to remember if you choose to stay Catholic is that as long as the ToT is in effect, Spain can swoop in and take any of your formerly Aztec provinces, as well as anything else in Latin America outside of Brazil.

Well, sort of. Those Aztec provinces have minimal forts from the beginning, so Spain would have to successfully siege them to take the province. True, Spain's army can march throughout that area and engage your armies, but it's less than likely that it will have a large enough force to take any through siege.

However, those Carribbean provinces are another story (you gotta build the forts).

 

[unmerged(10894)]

Protestantism = +10% tax and production.
Reformed = +10% trade (which helps the efficency of your merchants and how much you can earn), -10% tax.

I found reformed to be much better for how I played (although it was kind of ironic that after I went reformed I went after just about every catholic province in europe :wacko: ), because my trade income far elapsed both my production and tax revenue.

I do have some advise if you want to play a Portugal. Keep things small until you convert. Try not to colonise too much up to city level before you convert to your desired religion. If you convert with lots of now wrong religion provinces, getting that stab you lost back will be a pain.

 

[unmerged(35312)]

I'm playing a Portugal game, I think have spread myself to far, but my Portugal is still Catholic. I haven't fully read up on how to play the game, but I know how to play the basic game. I'm currently in the year 1752, I have the whole of the South American continent (defeated Inca and Chimu), many parts of North America, Australia+most of the small islands around that region, many provinces above (north-west), some provinces in the South African region. I think what helped me take a lot of land was when the computer tried to dislodge my holding of Valencia to try and introduce Spain into the game. I couldn't allow this so I pushed many of my troops from Toledo into Valencia and won it back. I think as I had gone to war with Castile and Aragon very early, this limited Castile's progress.

From one of my previous wars with Aragon, I gained about 5 provinces. All Catholic, but not Iberien culture. Now and then I get revolts, from these provinces and in the past I have tried to send missionaries in to solve the issue. Although it comes up with a cost of sending a missionary to a province, for some reason it won't let me do this. Can they change the cultures, as well as the religions? I want to cut out the revolts in all my former Aragon states, as I know when I go to war again to finally finish Aragon off they will just constantly revolt in the middle of the war. How can I stop the revolts from happening?

 

[unmerged(46785)]

pgroves and Bocaj:

I think I'll remain Catholic for the rest of the game, the conversion costs will be too high. Also I don't want wars with France or Papal States for example.

Thistletooth and Aliosha:

I'm taking care of that. See this post (http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209845) for more details.

Zaniac:

You can't change culture with the Missionaries, just the religion.

In order to reduce the revolt risk, have you tried to build Chief Judges? I have them in Gibraltar and the Aztec Empire provinces and doing well. I didn't even convert in there yet but i'm keeping small peace maintenance forces just in case.

 

[SirGrotius]

I know this is beating a dead horse but catholicism is much better for portugal unless your goal is increased challenge.

a) your provinces are already catholic
b) spain and france will hate you
c) your provinces don't have high tax values (which would make protestantism somewhat more attractive)
d) catholicism is better for keeping things stable
e) you won't win technology wars anyway

 

[unmerged(35312)]

I haven't been able to check as the game doesn't seem to be working. I have used cheif judges on the Inca and Chimu empires and also converted them. That seems to have done the trick, as they have kept quiet, when I failed in my poor attempt to take the Aztecs. England are getting to close for comfort near their land and I'm going to have to take the Aztec's land soon. They have a -200 relationship with me, so there will be no love lost.

I just wondered if you have to improve one of your areas of research to a certain level to be able to change a European province's culture?

 

[unmerged(46785)]

I haven't been able to check as the game doesn't seem to be working. I have used cheif judges on the Inca and Chimu empires and also converted them. That seems to have done the trick, as they have kept quiet, when I failed in my poor attempt to take the Aztecs. England are getting to close for comfort near their land and I'm going to have to take the Aztec's land soon. They have a -200 relationship with me, so there will be no love lost.

I just wondered if you have to improve one of your areas of research to a certain level to be able to change a European province's culture?

The Aztecs gold is well worth all the money you invest in a full scale war.

You must have spent huge amounts of money to convert Incas and Chimus. Maybe when I'm richer I'll do that but for now I have better investments.

I don't think you can change the culture of a province. I think only time and events could do that for you, but would like a confirmation.

 

[Tonioz]

Protestantism = +10% tax and production.
Reformed = +10% trade (which helps the efficency of your merchants and how much you can earn), -10% tax.

I found reformed to be much better for how I played (although it was kind of ironic that after I went reformed I went after just about every catholic province in europe :wacko: ), because my trade income far elapsed both my production and tax revenue.

I do have some advise if you want to play a Portugal. Keep things small until you convert. Try not to colonise too much up to city level before you convert to your desired religion. If you convert with lots of now wrong religion provinces, getting that stab you lost back will be a pain.

hmm, that what i had in mind for going reformed Porto

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Bocaj and Tonio,

Protestantism = +10% tax and production.
Reformed = +10% trade (which helps the efficency of your merchants and how much you can earn), -10% tax.

Looking at it like this protestantism looks better. Let us do a little simple math before the math gigants arrive at the scene.

PROT
+10% tax
+10% prod
+0 trade

REF
-10% tax
+0 prod
+10 trade

--------------------------------

Assume income is shown like this in the monthly income window:
Tax 100d
Prod 100d
Trade 200d

PROT
Tax 110
Prod 110
Trade 200
-----------
Sum 420

REF
Tax 90
Prod 90
Trade 220
-----------
Sum 400

However this math is not correct.

1. Because in the Tax income value (in the province screen) the trade taxes (i.e.tolls) are included and they vary with TE not with the province modifier influencing taxincome. Thus the tax income of the reformed nation in my example will not be 90 but instead perhaps 95 (presupposing trade taxes comprises 50% of total tax income, which may be right or wrong).

2. However we also have the slightly worse tech speed modifier for reformed.

Anyhow, income from trade must be much more important than other types of income to make reformed an alternative.

Portugal may be just the nation that fits that bill

EDIT: I deleted a part where I questioned there is any production bonus for protestants

 

[Cakravarti]

The Aztecs gold is well worth all the money you invest in a full scale war.

You must have spent huge amounts of money to convert Incas and Chimus. Maybe when I'm richer I'll do that but for now I have better investments.

I don't think you can change the culture of a province. I think only time and events could do that for you, but would like a confirmation.

When you convert a pagan province you also change the culture to the national culture of your state. This however does not work with other religions.

 

[unmerged(35312)]

Heck loads of money was spent to sort this out. I had a lot of revolts and had to keep some big armies in the region. I've now got a trouble-free region in South America. Actually I have made an error, I only control about 97% of South America. San Matius is controlled by the Netherlands and the Falkland Islands is controlled by Denmark.