Giving vassals provinces in peace deals and AE

[Aries666]

The situation above I have given 2 HRE provinces to my vassal East Frisia, 2 Mamluk provinces to my vassal Syria, and 2 Mamluk provinces to me. The peace deal says we will each get ~20 AE. Because I have taken 2 Mamluk provinces I assume my AE will be generated in that region against sunni nations. After the peace deal it turns I have generated 31 AE with the Hansa and similar with all other HRE states. I only noticed this because in a series of 3 wars I have been feeding provinces to East Frisia and now pretty much the whole HRE hates me despite me not having taken a single province. Is this WAD, I was under the impression that provinces given to vassals would give the vassal AE.

 

[vranasm]

the UI lies to you... it is even logical that the AE goes to you since you are the overlord...

I calculate with it while feeding my vassals

 

[Aries666]

the UI lies to you... it is even logical that the AE goes to you since you are the overlord...

I calculate with it while feeding my vassals

I accept that I should have got some AE as I did take two provinces but the provinces I took were sunni Mamluk provinces so why the AE in the HRE, also I was supposed to get 19.6 AE but got 31 with the Hansa, something doesn't add up.

 

[Azikiel]

19.6 is the base AE then multiplied by effects like how close are they, if they are same religion, etc. I agree that it's wierd that the HRE cares so much, but it's not weird that the AE it told you is lower than the AE you got.

 

[Aries666]

Ok lets try this one instead: 2 provinces to East Frisia, 3 to Mentese

This shouldn't generate any AE for me, current AE with Austria is 94

After peace my AE with Austria is 131

So my question is are you the overlord supposed to get the AE when giving provinces to vassals, because if you get the same amount of AE regardless you would almost always be better off just taking it for yourself.

 

[Aries666]

Looking at it again, the AE I have got which each country is what is displayed in the box on the first pic. However, if you are not taking provinces what is being used to calculate your AE gain?

 

[Path]

Yes, seeing as it'd otherwise be too easy to just expand by feeding vassals and then absorbing them. It's still a perfectly viable way to expand--certainly offloading large numbers of provinces with non-accepted cultures and wrong religions to vassals helps keep your tag stable while spreading your use of MPs.

 

[oldroad]

I can't say anything about AE because as a new player I certainly don't understand it yet.

But as far as giving captured provinces to vassals, I think it's still worth while even if you are picking up the AE. As a captured province, you have to core it, maybe change religion and culture, then spend MPs and gold to build it up. If the vassal picks up ownership, all of those costs are picked up by the vassal. So my guess is it all boils down to the monetary value of the new province. It makes sense to annex rich provinces and gift the vassal with those of lessor value. Over all though, I feel strong vassals only benefit the overlord in the long run, both with profit that cost the overlord nothing, and with a stronger army.

 

[MadDjinn]

Yeah, because using vassals to take everything instead of yourself isn't exploity if you don't get the AE.

Don't worry guys, it's just my vassals expanding. I've got nothing to do with that.

 

[Aries666]

Yeah, because using vassals to take everything instead of yourself isn't exploity if you don't get the AE.

Don't worry guys, it's just my vassals expanding. I've got nothing to do with that.

You are missing the point if the game tells you you wont get AE for an action, then you do get AE and its no clear how, from what and what influenced the magnitude of it, how are you supposed to reasonably plan for it?

 

[MadDjinn]

You are missing the point if the game tells you you wont get AE for an action, then you do get AE and its no clear how, from what and what influenced the magnitude of it, how are you supposed to reasonably plan for it?

I didn't miss any point.

The AE you gained is listed in the screenshots you posted. Ergo, it's there to be seen and that point is moot. Would it be nice if the %modifiers would also be shown? yes. But is the real terms amount of AE shown to you before you hit the button to make the peace deal? yes. So you can see what to expect before hitting the button.

the 2nd point where you were hoping that you could just give vassals all lands and not gain AE from it is also moot. You take the AE, not your vassals, because other countries can't get mad at a vassal doing the bidding of their overlord. They can however get mad at the overlord.

 

[Seraphithan]

Yeah, because using vassals to take everything instead of yourself isn't exploity if you don't get the AE.

Don't worry guys, it's just my vassals expanding. I've got nothing to do with that.

True, the amount of AE you get is completely insane though. If you use a vassals reconquest CB giving the cores to the vassal will generate the same AE as taking them for yourself without a claim.

 

[Bellygareth]

It's a feature they discussed in one dev diary but didn't advertise in the patch notes so I've been confused until I tried it and came to the same conclusion as you : you do get the AE as the overlord. It's still unclear to me if you also get it if you're in a PU and if it applies the CB discounts. The tooltip is definitly incorrect too.

It's to counterballance the change that you can now use the vassal's cbs to declare war and they're supposed to fabricate claims. It would become too op.

 

[Denkt]

True, the amount of AE you get is completely insane though. If you use a vassals reconquest CB giving the cores to the vassal will generate the same AE as taking them for yourself without a claim.

But then the game would be a bit to easy if you get to relase a vassal with alot of cores which will soon be your land anyway.

 

[yerm]

I remember thinking it DOES tell you, somewhere, your total ae gain with nations in the peace deal. When I looked it was less, something like maybe 2/3 to 3/4 or so, of taking it for myself directly. I can hopefully look again and put real numbers down. It may be that it's the same either way and I only saw it as less because of a vassal's claim or something.

Giving provinces to vassals can still be useful to save on coring costs and overextension problems even if it's identical aggressive expansion gain.

 

[Aries666]

I remember thinking it DOES tell you, somewhere, your total ae gain with nations in the peace deal. When I looked it was less, something like maybe 2/3 to 3/4 or so, of taking it for myself directly. I can hopefully look again and put real numbers down. It may be that it's the same either way and I only saw it as less because of a vassal's claim or something.

Giving provinces to vassals can still be useful to save on coring costs and overextension problems even if it's identical aggressive expansion gain.

From my examples it seems the player gets exactly the AE that the vassal would have gained had they conducted the conquest independently. However the peace offer and mouse over condratict each other, with the mouse over being correct. In any case unless bottlenecked for adm the player will make far better use of the income and manpower from a province than the AI. Then when you do annex the vassal the provinces are worthless at 75% LA.

The only reason I posted this was that from what others were saying about AE free vassal feeding I was under the impression that AE from vassal feeding had at least been reduced to balance the fact that provinces in vassal hands provide the player comparatively little compared to direct administration.

 

[yerm]

From my examples it seems the player gets exactly the AE that the vassal would have gained had they conducted the conquest independently. However the peace offer and mouse over condratict each other, with the mouse over being correct. In any case unless bottlenecked for adm the player will make far better use of the income and manpower from a province than the AI. Then when you do annex the vassal the provinces are worthless at 75% LA.

The only reason I posted this was that from what others were saying about AE free vassal feeding I was under the impression that AE from vassal feeding had at least been reduced to balance the fact that provinces in vassal hands provide the player comparatively little compared to direct administration.

You are probably right about the AE. I will check it more thoroughly.

There IS still a point - sometimes taking way too much can crush you with overextending. Vassals save you that trouble.

 

[Aries666]

You are probably right about the AE. I will check it more thoroughly.

There IS still a point - sometimes taking way too much can crush you with overextending. Vassals save you that trouble.

To an extent but I find I still have to take care of my vassals rebels until I have made them big enough to resist on their own.

 

[BaZERGer]

Curiously, the aggressive expansion penalty goes unconditionally to the overlord, i did a reconquest for one of my vassals of it's neighbor of same culture and religion, took their only province, got 1 aggressive expansion with the vassal that i gave the province to.

 

[MiniaAr]

Curiously, the aggressive expansion penalty goes unconditionally to the overlord, i did a reconquest for one of my vassals of it's neighbor of same culture and religion, took their only province, got 1 aggressive expansion with the vassal that i gave the province to.

However if you do reconquest and still use "give back cores" in the peace deal instead of giving directly the province to your vassal, you won't get AE (but will pay the diplo cost).