Giving jobs To populists, and general populist help.

[unmerged(335577)]

Hey guys I bought the game a few days ago and seem to have the basics down. I have read the unofficial guide to republics and some other guides.

My question is, How to deal with populist characters. I know that if they have a low conviction 15-20 (using the guide as a reference) they can be converted to other factions.

I'm not exactly clear on how they can be converted. I know that giving them titles helps, and fulfilling their ambitions gives them conviction towards a different faction. However, doesn't giving them titles increase the popularity of the populist faction of the senate?

Also, how does conviction work? Does a character have to get down to 0 conviction to switch factions, or am I misunderstanding how this mechanic works?

 

[UniversalWolf]

However, doesn't giving them titles increase the popularity of the populist faction of the senate?

Yes, but it depends on which title/office and whether or not the character has a high charisma. I find I can get away with using populists if they have horrible charisma but usefully high finesse.

Does a character have to get down to 0 conviction to switch factions, or am I misunderstanding how this mechanic works?

Conviction for a faction never goes down, as far as I'm aware. You just have to get the conviction for a different faction higher than the populist conviction. Characters with less than, say, 20 populist conviction can still be saved, but it gets tough if it's higher than 20.

 

[unmerged(335577)]

Yes, but it depends on which title/office and whether or not the character has a high charisma. I find I can get away with using populists if they have horrible charisma but usefully high finesse.

Would you mind explaining this further?
Why do certain offices/titles make a difference?
Why does low Charisma matter?
Should I only give populist characters titles/jobs if they have low charisma? If so how would I go about converting a populist character who doesn't have those stats?
Should I even worry about all populist characters, or is having a few ok?

Also, thanks for the reply and help!

 

[fmurciap]

Would you mind explaining this further?
Why do certain offices/titles make a difference?
Why does low Charisma matter?
Should I only give populist characters titles/jobs if they have low charisma? If so how would I go about converting a populist character who doesn't have those stats?
Should I even worry about all populist characters, or is having a few ok?

Also, thanks for the reply and help!

Office ambitions, when fulfilled, give a bit of conviction to certain factions. If your populist character is young and his conviction is low (below 25 in any case, better if below 20) that could be enough for him to switch faction. Every character has a certain amount of conviction for each faction, although in the tooltip you only will see the amount of the biggest one, which gives him his present adscription. Young and naive characters are not hard to be talked into other faction. Titus Gulliblus Irresolutus maybe, i.e. 18 populist, but 15 civic, 13 military, 12 mercantile and 9 religious. If given a little push of 5 civic conviction, he will switch faction and became a more or less enthusiastic green voter. The problem is that the biggest 'push' is 6 to mercantile when appointed governor (if he wants the post), hence the low limit of (populist or else) conviction for the event to happen.

 

[fmurciap]

And where does charisma fit in the scheme?
Influence in the senate of the five factions depends a lot of the charisma of their key characters. IIRC, the five magistrates, the two censors and the five faction leaders give senate influence to their respective factions in an amount that depends directly on their charisma level minus 1. The problem with a charismatic populist is that, if becoming leader of his faction, his senate influence would be (charisma-1)*4. So, for an 8 charisma leader, it would be 28% of senate influence.
So the advice is: you can try to 'convince' young charismatic populists, if their conviction is below 20, maybe 25. Otherwise, to them you may apply the infamous sentence about "The only god Indian ...", or if you feel squeamish about blood, put them behind bars. Appointing them governors is pretty harmless in the short term, and may be your only chance to make them switch faction, but remember that any post will give prominence and family prestige to the holder, thus increasing his chances to became party leader. And believe me, a charismatic populist leader is a real pain in the ...

 

[UniversalWolf]

The tooltips are helpful for figuring out which offices have the most senate influence. As a rule you should never appoint populist censors (although I've done it once or twice with characters who have 9 finesse and 0 charisma), and you should be wary of any populist faction leader with high charisma.

My trick is always to send the populist with the highest charisma to declare war...

 

[unmerged(335577)]

thanks for all the helpful info guys

 

[Antiochus_Soter]

I believe that having characters that are populists is totally separate from having a lot of populists in the Senate. It is the latter, not the former that you need to avoid. You need to make sure that the number of populists in the Senate stays below about 25-30. To do this make sure you NEVER give any important jobs to any Populist characters, as they will influence the Senate. When I say important jobs what I mean is the 5 tech positions and the Censors. Governors and generals do not affect political attraction so it is OK to appoint populists to those positions.
If you go to the Senate page and hover the mouse cursor over the depiction of the Senate floor with all the chairs colored by the various factions, a little window will pop up showing you how much "political attraction" each faction currently has and why they are getting that political attraction. As long as the Populists have a low political attraction (i.e. something like 25%), you are safe that in the long-run their numbers in the Senate will go down.

 

[fmurciap]

I believe that having characters that are populists is totally separate from having a lot of populists in the Senate. It is the latter, not the former that you need to avoid....

It's true, but you must bear in mind that the pool of populist characters is where the leaders come from, so having a charismatic populist chap is a risk, be it moderate or high, depending on his conviction, if Cheexsta is as accurate as ever. Remember a 8 charisma populist leader gives by himself, no other populist accounting, 28% of populist influence, and that's a lot of it. On the other hand, I don't remember if anybody has been able to establish the mechanics behind the composition of the Senate, but it doesn't seem unlikely that the relative number of populist in the character pool may play a role.